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The Coronavirus Thread, brought to you by Randall Flagg
(03-23-2020, 12:26 PM)Judas Booth Wrote: 'As long as the 'right' people die, we'll get through this ok.'

"Not the better half."
My karmic debt must be huge.

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My blog: An Embarrassment of Rich's
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Stop airing the pressers:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/23/afric..._term=link

Quote:Health officials in Nigeria have issued a warning over chloroquine after they said three people in the country overdosed on the drug, in the wake of President Trump's comments about using it to treat coronavirus.

A Lagos state official told CNN that three people were hospitalized in the city after taking the drug. Officials later issued a statement cautioning against using chloroquine for Covid-19 treatment.

US President Donald Trump claimed at a White House briefing last week that the Food and Drug Administration had approved the "very powerful" drug chloroquine to treat coronavirus.

"It's shown very encouraging -- very, very encouraging early results. And we're going to be able to make that drug available almost immediately. And that's where the FDA has been so great. They -- they've gone through the approval process; it's been approved. And they did it -- they took it down from many, many months to immediate. So we're going to be able to make that drug available by prescription or states," Trump said.

He added: "Normally the FDA would take a long time to approve something like that, and it's -- it was approved very, very quickly and it's now approved, by prescription."

However, the FDA after the briefing issued a statement saying it had not approved the drug for use against Covid-19 and is still studying its effectiveness against the disease.
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We need some fucking tests. I'm getting tired about hearing what famous people have it. It seems like a lot. It would be nice to hear if my friends and family have it, if I have it. That would be great.
Brigadier Cousins on PSN
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Without a 4 day turnaround either.
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Yeah. It's maddening that there's not only a dearth of tests but no consistent, clear communication about how and where.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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The Fed just announced UNLIMITED quantitative easing.  That's a blank check to poorly run financiers.

What's worse is the Fed also announced they are going to buy toxic corporate bonds ... Jesus Fucking Christ .... they're going to use the U.S. dollar to rescue over leveraged companies that sold worthless fucking bonds so they could buy back stock. Not a single pink slip has been required in order to obtain zero interest loans. Basically, the Fed is paying real dollars for assets that, on the open market, are worth a tiny fraction of their face value (or are worthless). Absolute fucking insanity.

Same as in '08, bailouts for the rich and no regulatory changes.

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Fox News has run its first anti-Fauci segment. Time until President Camacho sentences the doctor to death by monster truck can probably be measured in hours now.

https://crooksandliars.com/2020/03/attac...have-begun
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Per usual, Trump's concerned about optics:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-h...e-n1166671

Quote:Tensions are beginning to brew among the president, his advisers and public health experts over how long America needs to be shut down as they weigh the devastating economic cost of social isolation against the public health benefits.

Administration officials, eager to get the country back to business, have grown increasingly concerned in recent days about the economic impact the tight restrictions on movement and social interactions are having. These officials said they worry that the White House went too far in allowing public health experts to set policy and that their actions did not need to be so draconian.

Public health officials have pushed the White House to urge Americans to stay at home in an effort to blunt the spread of the virus and "flatten the curve" of new cases. Officials in Italy were slow to isolate affected regions and limit movement, leading to one of the world's worst outbreaks so far.

There is hope that the expiration next Monday of the administration’s "15 Days to Slow the Spread" guidelines, which urge people to stay at home if they are older or feeling sick or have been in contact with someone infected, could serve as a light at the end of the tunnel and a possible pivot point to restart the economy.

Trump’s frustrations spilled into public overnight, tweeting, in all caps, that “WE CANNOT LET THE CURE BE WORSE THAN THE PROBLEM ITSELF. AT THE END OF THE 15 DAY PERIOD, WE WILL MAKE A DECISION AS TO WHICH WAY WE WANT TO GO.”

He later retweeted a series of supporters Monday, who appeared concerned about his re-election prospects given the potential long-term impact of this crisis: "After 15 days are over the world can begin to heal," one retweet read.

Among the plans being discussed are creating a separate set of rules and restrictions for the hardest-hit states, such as California, New York and Washington, while allowing other states to return to business that’s closer to usual, officials said. But a former administration official warned this would create a "cognitive dissonance" for Americans.

One point of tension as Trump tries to balance public and economic health has been air travel. He has repeatedly raised concerns in meetings about the optics of grounded planes and empty airports, according to two people familiar with the meetings. He’s argued that those images would look bad for him and could further drag down the economy, they said, while others have made the case for sharply curtailing air travel.

The administration’s top infectious disease expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci, has acknowledged that there is a cost-benefit analysis to be done over prolonged isolation of Americans and that they are seeking to find the right balance, like putting stricter measures in place in areas where the virus is rapidly spreading.

"There is a discussion and a delicate balance about what’s the overall impact of shutting everything down completely for an indefinite period of time,” Fauci said in an interview with Science magazine. "So, there's a compromise. If you knock down the economy completely and disrupt infrastructure, you may be causing health issues, unintended consequences, for people who need to be able to get to places and can't. You do the best you can."
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I mean, that's super-interesting that Fox News is going after some doctor who's just doing his job, but perhaps a meltdown of the underpinnings of the U.S. dollar is more newsworthy?

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(03-23-2020, 02:31 PM)Iron Maiden Wrote: "After 15 days are over the world can begin to heal," one retweet read.

Thank you, Mr. Trump. Thank you for making the virus agree to leave after 15 days. Thank you for this beautiful deal.
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He and his people know that its going to take a long while before the economy rebounds. It probably won't be until after the election and that his goose is cooked.
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I don't think we'll have elections in November.

I mean, the federal response seems almost geared to make that an inevitability, no?
If I could change to liquid, I'd fill the cracks and bend the rocks.
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(03-23-2020, 02:46 PM)turingmachine75 Wrote: I don't think we'll have elections in November.

I mean, the federal response seems almost geared to make that an inevitability, no?

Elections are run on a state level, so the federal govt. doesn't have much control over that. Trump can't just declare that elections won't happen. Even if he did and no elections were held his term and Pence's term ends on Jan. 20, 2021, at that point the Speaker of the House becomes president. So I doubt Trump would want to live to see a day where Nancy Pelosi is sworn in as POTUS.
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Good God...Pelosi becoming president would set half of the country on fire. That'd be worse than Hillary for alot of the country.
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(03-23-2020, 02:46 PM)turingmachine75 Wrote: I don't think we'll have elections in November.

I mean, the federal response seems almost geared to make that an inevitability, no?

Again, the President has no control over elections. That's Congress.

And Trump's term ends even if there is no election.

There's no move there.
Gamertag: Tweakee
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Not unless he gets appointed God Emperor Dampnut and the courts back him up because all of the judg---ohhh...

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I feel better.

Thank you.
If I could change to liquid, I'd fill the cracks and bend the rocks.
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McConnell's corporate bailout masked as a virus relief bill failed to pass. Again.

He's calling votes he knows will fail, trying to make it look like Republicans are doing something.

When it does come time to vote, we need to remind everyone we interact with, that during a national crisis, only one political party was playing political games and trying to aid the rich.
Gamertag: Tweakee
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The important thing to remember is that the Fed is going to go ahead and bailout the Big Corporate™ directly, no need to worry about these pesky legislative votes.

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He has no control over elections and velociraptors have no control over door handles.

Perhaps it will come down to this impotent congress vs a judiciary teeming with hardline conservatives, an acquiesced Senate, a compromised Justice, and the ultimate lizard brain survivor who is all about breaking the system and has the uncanny ability to MacGyver his way out of the stickiest situations.
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I dunno, you guys. Trump really hates this job, and it ain't getting any easier for him. He probably offered aid to North Korea because he's looking for a place to shack up after he ragequits on Twitter.
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Just giving an update, no news yet on my test results. The Hospital says it’s the county department of heath’s job to notify me, the county says it’s the healthcare Provider’s job to notify me of the results. I finally just decided to call the hospital records department directly and they said I’d have to submit a request for my records in writing... this is of course after a person in the County office of epidemiology told me I shouldn’t go to the hospital for any reason except if I felt like I needed to go to the ER again. The only silver lining is at least both offices are answering their phones with less than a minute hold time.

So I downloaded a request for records form, printed it, filled it out, scanned it back in and emailed it to the records department hoping that’s good enough.

The good news is that my friend who’s a nurse is going to get on the case of my test results this Wednesday when he gets back to work.

Also some bad news from that same friend, he says that the preliminary data they at the hospital has been able to receive on the virus is that the whole herd immunity thing may be difficult. These are his words “Unfortunately for the virus, the current data shows us (at least as far as I have seen/been informed) is that humans are not building an immunity. Reinfection is still on the table... That’s what happened to the quarantined cruise ship, where they held everyone for over 3 weeks, but didn’t get to stop the virus because it was reinfecting/testing positive for people that already tested positive over 21 days prior.”
When life gives you lemons, lemonade is little consolation. 
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(03-23-2020, 05:11 PM)Adam_72 Wrote: He has no control over elections and velociraptors have no control over door handles.

Perhaps it will come down to this impotent congress vs a judiciary teeming with hardline conservatives, an acquiesced Senate, a compromised Justice, and the ultimate lizard brain survivor who is all about breaking the system and has the uncanny ability to MacGyver his way out of the stickiest situations.

It's been a long time, but I don't recall MacGyver solving his problems by finding a potato, paper clips and some duct tape... and throwing them all at the wall.
Gamertag: Tweakee
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(03-23-2020, 05:14 PM)bradito Wrote: I dunno, you guys. Trump really hates this job, and it ain't getting any easier for him. He probably offered aid to North Korea because he's looking for a place to shack up after he ragequits on Twitter.

The only reason he wants to keep the job is that it's shielding him from prosecution. I'm going to be stupidly naive and assume the SDNY, at least, will be going after him the minute his successor is sworn in.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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The difference between Donald Trump and a Velociraptor is that one is good-looking, smart, and capable of basic problem-solving, and the other is Donald Trump.
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is olord on everyone's ignore list or something?
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Probably.

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Not mine.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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Not mine.  I just figured Overlord's disgust at the bailout scenarios spoke for themselves.  Best I could offer is myself saying "agreed".
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Not mine either. I just didn't have a response.
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Thirded.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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[Image: giphy.gif]
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The derivatives market is over a quadrillion dollars. In 2004 it was something like 200 trillion. The scale of its growth in the absence of any meaningful capitalization/disclosure requirements is horrifying. Basically, despite the 2008 Great Recession, corporations saw no downside to exploding corporate debt in ever more elaborate attempts to re-package commodities to investors.

In researching this over the last few hours, despite having only a cursory knowledge, I may have to change my position. I think the Fed may have absolutely no choice but to start bailing out corporate junk debt or the entire derivative market will collapse ... meaning a large percentage of companies that form the modern day stock market will declare bankruptcy or simply cease operations.

The bailout should come with a bunch of new regulations and moving vans filled with pink slips (which was the exact same remedy we needed in 2008 and didn't get).

**To keep this in perspective, 3-6 weeks of business disruption was all it took to bring Fortune 500 companies to their fucking knees. That's how over-leveraged they are with garbage debt they can't service the interest payments on. Yet, these same predatory fucks would definitely tell a person who is facing homelessness that they should have lived within their means and had an emergency fund.

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(03-23-2020, 06:04 PM)Overlord Wrote: The derivatives market is over a quadrillion dollars.  In 2004 it was something like 200 billion.  The scale of its growth in the absence of any meaningful capitalization/disclosure requirements is horrifying.  

Despite the 2008 Great Recession, corporations saw no downside to exploding corporate debt in every more elaborate attempts to re-package commodities to investors.  

In researching this over the last few hours, despite having only a cursory knowledge, I may have to change my position.  I think the Fed may have absolutely no choice but to start bailing out corporate junk debt or the entire derivative market will collapse ... meaning most companies as they presently exist.

The bailout should come with a bunch of new regulations and moving vans filled with pink slips (which was the exact same remedy we needed in 2008 and didn't get).

Amen to that.  I highly doubt it'll happen, especially given the current makeup of the federal government.
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(03-23-2020, 06:06 PM)mondguy Wrote:
(03-23-2020, 06:04 PM)Overlord Wrote: The derivatives market is over a quadrillion dollars.  In 2004 it was something like 200 billion.  The scale of its growth in the absence of any meaningful capitalization/disclosure requirements is horrifying.  

Despite the 2008 Great Recession, corporations saw no downside to exploding corporate debt in every more elaborate attempts to re-package commodities to investors.  

In researching this over the last few hours, despite having only a cursory knowledge, I may have to change my position.  I think the Fed may have absolutely no choice but to start bailing out corporate junk debt or the entire derivative market will collapse ... meaning most companies as they presently exist.

The bailout should come with a bunch of new regulations and moving vans filled with pink slips (which was the exact same remedy we needed in 2008 and didn't get).

Amen to that.  I highly doubt it'll happen, especially given the current makeup of the federal government.

This is the third horrific "Boom/Bust" cycle caused by overly aggressive, speculative market bubbles in the past 16 years.  One would think that at SOME point voters will simply not tolerate the present representative make-up regardless of how much corporate advertising money is available.  I guess we'll see.

People who are retired may not have time to wait for a recovery.  They'll have to start liquidating just to cover their living expenses.  Going to get real fucking grim.  

**Speaking of retirees, you think Illinois has pension problems?  California's pension problem is going to make that look like nothing. The California pension fund just lost something like 50 billion (out of 400 billion) and it was ALREADY catastrophically underfunded.

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