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The Nightmare On Elm Street Series

On this day in 1991, we lost him.





For a near-seven-year-old, Freddy sure did a lot of damage.

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AThey saved the best... for the third movie.
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Freddy's Dead is such a weird film, but that's by design with Rachel Talalay at the helm.  She worked with John Waters a few times, and she clearly has similar sensibilities.  I would never call it good, but I find it strangely watchable.



Tank Girl is better, though when it comes to Talalay's work.  I haven't seen Ghost in the Machine since the late 90s, and barely remember a thing about it.

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AIt is a bummer that we got FREDDY'S DEAD for Part 6. I think Talalay directing was a decision made early on, and New Line golden boy Mike De Luca was the one writing the script for her, which probably ensured it would be the version that got greenlit. Ideally, Talalay would have directed Jackson's script. I suspect studio politics denied us that.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
 

Freddy's Dead is such a weird film, but that's by design with Rachel Talalay at the helm.  She worked with John Waters a few times, and she clearly has similar sensibilities.  I would never call it good, but I find it strangely watchable.



Tank Girl is better, though when it comes to Talalay's work.  I haven't seen Ghost in the Machine since the late 90s, and barely remember a thing about it.


To be honest it's one of the Nightmare films I watch a lot of. I can'y explain to you why that is but there you go. Also I recently discovered the blonde girl with the abusing father was also in 976 Evil. And did you know the Goo Goo Dolls did the main song? And Breckin Meyer was in it with cameos by Roseanne and Tom Arnold. FUCKING 90S BITCH.

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AI absolutely HATE Freddy's Dead. It's neck and neck with Jason Goes to Hell as one of the few movies of this sub genre that I probably will never watch again.

Elm Street is a pretty healthy, dependably cool entertaining series up to part 5. Of course the original is tops and a genuine classic. And part 3 is an almost shockingly good movie in every way. And parts 4 and 5 are good looking and perfectly entertaining flicks that more than give a fan their money's worth...even if they're probably a little too similar. It's part 2 that gets the most undeserved flack. I think that's at LEAST the third best of the series. Its a genuinely creepy movie and Freddy is probably at his most scary in it. Sure it doesn't really fit with the rest of them (but I can make it canonical with very little mental gymnastics) but it's a horror movie through and through and is probably up there with The Breakfast Club as THE most 80s movie ever. So...Elm Streets 1-5 and FvJ. Anything outside of those I ain't payin money for..
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Waaaaaaaalt View Post
 

To be honest it's one of the Nightmare films I watch a lot of. I can'y explain to you why that is but there you go. Also I recently discovered the blonde girl with the abusing father was also in 976 Evil. And did you know the Goo Goo Dolls did the main song? And Breckin Meyer was in it with cameos by Roseanne and Tom Arnold. FUCKING 90S BITCH.



I have the soundtrack on CD around here somewhere.  I'm pretty sure the Goo Goo Dolls and Iggy Pop tracks were only released on the soundtrack, and can't be found on any other releases (plus, the GGD song has a single release, which must be super rare because I've never seen one go on sale).  I'm not sure about some of the other tracks.



Here's the Freddy-inspired music video for the Goo Goo Dolls track, "I'm Awake Now."





Those guys really dabbled with different directions before hitting it with big with the pop rock ballads.



The Iggy Pop song starts off the end credits for that Freddy montage.  I think it's a pretty cool song!



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Alright heres where I get sadder.....both of those songs are in the film. The Goo Goo Dolls song plays at the beginning and the Iggy Pop song plays over the end credits.

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AI think the songs only play if you have the 3D glasses on.
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Mick Garris did a great Wes Craven tribute episode of his podcast with Robert Englund that's worth checking out.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fraid uh noman View Post

I absolutely HATE Freddy's Dead. It's neck and neck with Jason Goes to Hell as one of the few movies of this sub genre that I probably will never watch again.

Elm Street is a pretty healthy, dependably cool entertaining series up to part 5. Of course the original is tops and a genuine classic. And part 3 is an almost shockingly good movie in every way. And parts 4 and 5 are good looking and perfectly entertaining flicks that more than give a fan their money's worth...even if they're probably a little too similar. It's part 2 that gets the most undeserved flack. I think that's at LEAST the third best of the series. Its a genuinely creepy movie and Freddy is probably at his most scary in it. Sure it doesn't really fit with the rest of them (but I can make it canonical with very little mental gymnastics) but it's a horror movie through and through and is probably up there with The Breakfast Club as THE most 80s movie ever. So...Elm Streets 1-5 and FvJ. Anything outside of those I ain't payin money for..


Ignoring New Nightmare... fraid, you disappoint me.

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AIt ain't bad. I'm just not crazy about it. I could watch it again. And I'm sure I might someday. I just don't really want to...or feel like I need to might be a better way to put it..
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NEW NIGHTMARE is good, and there's simply no way that Fraid actually believes it's inferior to THE DREAM CHILD, but I can get why people don't like it.  The possessed kid stuff is obnoxiously overplayed.  I think I'm one of the few people who prefer it to SCREAM, though.

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AYou're right. I don't think it's better than Dream Child. But I enjoy watching Dream Child more..
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I definitely prefer it to Scream. Though, I was never of the opinion Scream was a real horror film. It's just a movie about "horror" with its meta subtext. It's way more spoofy.



New Nightmare on the other hand works both ways, and I feel it's a lot smarter.

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I like Dream Child quite a bit. Lot's of beautiful imagery. In contrast with the F13 franchise, these, even the later entries, feel like MOVIES.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fraid uh noman View Post

Jason Goes to Hell

Ever seen the unrated cut?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnotaur3 View Post
 

I definitely prefer it to Scream. Though, I was never of the opinion Scream was a real horror film. It's just a movie about "horror" with its meta subtext. It's way more spoofy.



It's kind of hard to look at the violence in Scream (especially the NC-17 cut) and not call it a horror film.  That scene where Stu and Billy are stabbing each other is pretty disturbing, as well as the gore in the opening scene.



Scream is so well cast too, almost every character is magnetic to watch, a big part of what makes it work aside from the brilliant script.

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SCREAM absolutely works as a horror movie for me.  That opening sequence, though an obvious WHEN A STRANGER CALLS riff, is terrifically tense, and the entire finale is far more straight than jokey (and what humor does pop up there feels totally organic).



I have vivid memories of one of my (cool) aunts renting SCREAM during a sleepover I had with a couple cousins when we were 12, and we were scared silly by it that night.  That may color my perception of it even to this day, I guess, but I'd call SCREAM as much of a horror film as something like AN AMERICAN WEREWOLF IN LONDON; the humor compliments the horror, it never overrides it.

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Scream didn't make $176M (in 1996 dollars) and spawn a zillion imitators for no reason.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Belloq87 View Post
 

I'd call SCREAM as much of a horror film as something like AN AMERICAN WEREWOLF IN LONDON; the humor compliments the horror, it never overrides it.



Totally.

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ACan we stop it with this "I don't think (insert movie that's obviously a horror movie) is a horror movie" shit? Come on.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bradito View Post

Can we stop it with this "I don't think (insert movie that's obviously a horror movie) is a horror movie" shit? Come on.


It's the new normal.  Revisionist history is a thing now.  Did you see that video essay that said Daniel LaRusso was the real bully?

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AI run screaming from video essays.
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A[quote name="Bradito" url="/community/t/114428/the-nightmare-on-elm-street-series/390#post_4366250"]Can we stop it with this "I don't think (insert movie that's obviously a horror movie) is a horror movie" shit? Come on.[/quote]

I know it's labeled horror, numbnuts, I just could never take it as seriously as it wants me too.

Though kudos to Ambler for giving me the Wearwolf in London comparison.

One thing that tips my favor toward New Nightmare over Scream is that it's actually about something. Scream unfortunately can't get past the cute premise that it makes horror tropes and cliches both the subtext and the text, whereas Nightmare nests the meta into a film about children and what role stories play into their growth through fear and out of fear. That's way more interesting and deserved thing to think about.
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Oh, I have to push back on that. Scream is very much 'about something', which is the effect Horror movies have on their audience. And not in the sense that it makes them psychos, although that obviously gets touched on, but in that every character in the movie lives in a world where Horror movies exist. They have passing familiarity with the tropes and 'the rules', but that doesn't prepare them for the 'reality' of a slasher film. It's super metatextual, but that had never been so successfully articulated at the time. It was a hit not because it was scary, but because it was fun and the audience saw themselves, and their awareness of Horror movies, in the teenage cast. Whether that was as a piece of the background on dates, as Sydney or Tatum did, or as something to obsess over, a la the killers and Randy. All credit to that Kevin Williamson script. He knew how to write teens.



New Nightmare, on the other hand, uses its metatextualism for the purposes of its Grimm fairy tale plot, but doesn't seem to have much of an opinion at all on what the Nightmare franchise means to its audience or its creators. It's incidental to the story and more or less irrelevant to its themes. It's the more ambitious of the movies, I suppose, but it's also considerably worse in execution. Whatever themes about childhood and storytelling exist there are half baked into a subpar 80s slasher with a meta gimmick.

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I have a habit of putting weird stuff on in the background at home, and lately that distraction has been Freddy's Nightmares.  It's basically Tales from the Crypt with Freddy as the Crypt Keeper.  It's so cheap and weird, but then isn't that half the fun of these anthology shows?  Not sure why they don't make this officially available. If they don't want spend money pressing the discs then surely they can just throw them up on iTunes or Amazon Video?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Arjen Rudd View Post
 

Oh, I have to push back on that. Scream is very much 'about something', which is the effect Horror movies have on their audience. And not in the sense that it makes them psychos, although that obviously gets touched on, but in that every character in the movie lives in a world where Horror movies exist. They have passing familiarity with the tropes and 'the rules', but that doesn't prepare them for the 'reality' of a slasher film. It's super metatextual, but that had never been so successfully articulated at the time. It was a hit not because it was scary, but because it was fun and the audience saw themselves, and their awareness of Horror movies, in the teenage cast. Whether that was as a piece of the background on dates, as Sydney or Tatum did, or as something to obsess over, a la the killers and Randy. All credit to that Kevin Williamson script. He knew how to write teens.



New Nightmare, on the other hand, uses its metatextualism for the purposes of its Grimm fairy tale plot, but doesn't seem to have much of an opinion at all on what the Nightmare franchise means to its audience or its creators. It's incidental to the story and more or less irrelevant to its themes. It's the more ambitious of the movies, I suppose, but it's also considerably worse in execution. Whatever themes about childhood and storytelling exist there are half baked into a subpar 80s slasher with a meta gimmick.



Absolutely spot on.

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A[quote name="wd40" url="/community/t/114428/the-nightmare-on-elm-street-series/390#post_4366125"]Ever seen the unrated cut?
[/quote]
Not in a long while because it's not a part of the blu ray set. But I doubt it'd change my opinion much unless it made Jason NOT a demonic puke slug in that cut. That'd be super awesome..
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A[quote name="Arjen Rudd" url="/community/t/114428/the-nightmare-on-elm-street-series/390#post_4366375"]Oh, I have to push back on that. Scream is very much 'about something', which is the effect Horror movies have on their audience. And not in the sense that it makes them psychos, although that obviously gets touched on, but in that every character in the movie lives in a world where Horror movies exist. They have passing familiarity with the tropes and 'the rules', but that doesn't prepare them for the 'reality' of a slasher film. It's super metatextual, but that had never been so successfully articulated at the time. It was a hit not because it was scary, but because it was fun and the audience saw themselves, and their awareness of Horror movies, in the teenage cast. Whether that was as a piece of the background on dates, as Sydney or Tatum did, or as something to obsess over, a la the killers and Randy. All credit to that Kevin Williamson script. He knew how to write teens.

New Nightmare, on the other hand, uses its metatextualism for the purposes of its Grimm fairy tale plot, but doesn't seem to have much of an opinion at all on what the Nightmare franchise means to its audience or its creators. It's incidental to the story and more or less irrelevant to its themes. It's the more ambitious of the movies, I suppose, but it's also considerably worse in execution. Whatever themes about childhood and storytelling exist there are half baked into a subpar 80s slasher with a meta gimmick.
[/quote]

Watch New Nightmare again, because the critique of the effect of horror movies have, especially toward children, is very present in the film. They wrap into Brothers Grimm stories because they were once an Appalachian thing to tell children and Wes is commenting that stories, even scary ones, are necessary. It's very much something to talk about. Scream is just for fun though. It's a movie about the critiques of horror. It doesn't really have much meaning beyond that.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Carnotaur3 View Post

Scream is just for fun though. It's a movie about the critiques of horror. It doesn't really have much meaning beyond that.


Carnotaur, we understand you're not that hot on Scream and that's fine.  But saying there's nothing going on beyond the fun self aware aspect is just plain ignorant.  You have three people (so far) telling you so.  We're not making this stuff up.



Another aspect of Scream is the effect violence has on the viewer.  The media at the time was very gung ho about blaming movies, video games and rock/rap music for violent acts.  It not only takes that idea and runs with it, it is also about viewers being so desensitized to violence in horror movies, to the point where they think they can get away with what they see in them without being fully prepared for it.  Billy and Stu's plan becomes obviously too much for them to handle, because they've seen too many horror movies and think that it's rules trump the rules of the real world.  It is also about the fame aspect of serial killing.  It is also about the rules for teenagers in horror movies being outdated in a post modern world.  There is tons going on beneath the surface.

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ADo we really have to start doing "I'm right and you're wrong" thing? Can't you just state your case and leave it at that, Ambler?

I'm saying I don't find the movie itself meaningful. I don't think it has any serious implications on the effects of horror movies. It's just taking jabs at it. Whereas, New Nightmare actually makes the whole movie about the question.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Carnotaur3 View Post

Do we really have to start doing "I'm right and you're wrong" thing?


You actually started that.  You said Scream doesn't have any meaning beyond the fun critique of horror movies several times, which is obviously not true at all.  How are we to blame for correcting you?  When you make declarative statements like that, you can't whine when people call you on it.  There is a difference between not digging something and practicing revisionist history.

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AOh please.

It's hard to have a conversation with you because you want to be right, is what I'm saying. "I'm calling you out" "You're obviously wrong!"

Who is stating these things? It wasn't me. Stop starting fights. It doesn't actually matter that we disagree.
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AI don't think I'm a numbnuts.
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