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The Boxing Thread
They're expecting this to the highest grossing PPV pf all time, so I could easily see this being $65.99 before the fight, and 75.99 the day of the fight. Sounds crazy but this is one of the most anticipated fights IN YEARS!!

I certainly hope this isn't a snoozefest but with MAyweather I wouldn't be surprised. The thing is Floyd has never faced anyone like Manny he's going to press the fight and maintain a certain tempo. I'd love to see Floyd get knocked out, or at least knocked down, but it wouldn't surprise if this turns out to be a stincker.
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I agree with Sean, though I am looking forward to it. J, toss me a PM, please if you are concerned about the pricetag for the PPV.
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First of all, no one should be too surprised if Mayweather has a training camp injury around February 1st or so. Dude's got a lot of hand troubles in his past and you know he's going to be trying to gain a little more power for this one. Hopefully I'm wrong.

As for the fight being boring... I don't know. Unless Floyd runs unashamedly (I don't think he will), I can't see it being that boring. I'm really curious how well Floyd is going to deal with those crazy angles Manny comes from. I'm also wondering what that shoulder roll is gonna look like against Manny's footwork. Will he just look like he's spinning and cowering?

Meanwhile, Manny better work on his D in training camp because he was eating straights at an alarming rate early in the Cotto fight. At least, Floyd doesn't have Cotto's power but still...

All said, it may not be full of fireworks but from a technical standpoint it's going to be really interesting to watch.
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Should be a cool fight. I don't think it'll be too boring, won't Pacmans agressive style ensure there will be some decent contact? I think Mayweather will be fine in fight, but it should be very interesting. Apparently the opening act may be an Aimr Khan fight

Man he really kicked Salita's ass, 76 seconds, that was awesome.
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How many saw the Williams-Martinez bout this past Saturday? Outstanding bout by both fighters, could have seen the decision go either way(cept for that judge that scored it 119-110, asshole). I had never seen Martinez before but, definitely someone I will try to follow here on out. I'm not sure Williams will ever be the same, I've never seen him take such a beating.

On the undercard, is the only qualification to be a top heavyweight contender obesity? If so, where do I sign up?

This weekend Malignaggi looks to avenge the Texas screw job vs. Diaz.
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Just watched that Williams-Martinez fight a couple days ago. These judges are out of control, 119-110 is bullshit. I think they should put 5 judges out there and eliminate the two scorecards with the largest discrepancies. Kind of how a play on how they do Olympic judging. They have to do something to eliminate these sketchy scores. I don't know. Just ranting because I'm annoyed.
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Agreed on the scorecard. That fight was terrific, though. I say lets those two fight again.
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Read a pretty good article on the search for a fighter who is just a footnote in the history of boxing.
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Well it's being reported that Manny is refusing to have his blood drawn during training camp. I have made my support for Manny very clear on this forum but lets face it... I don't refuse a drug test for a job I really want because guess what? I don't do drugs. I have nothing to worry about, I'll take one tomorrow. All kinds of suspicion comes with this kind of refusal. It's a shame and I hope it's a promotional ploy to keep the fight in the news with 3 months to go.

For any Manny supporters out there that want to defend this I ask you:

Would any of you fuck a girl that absolutely refuses to be tested beforehand? How about if you offer her 30 million dollars to take the test and she refuses... would you fuck her then? A stern refusal is... ready for it? FISHY.
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Yes, I agree it is suspicious. I hope they don't find something in his blood and delay the fight or even worse cancel it alltogether.
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Well it looks like Goldenboy is actually trying to sabotage the whole thing. The problem seems to be that USADA will only do RANDOM testing which is fine but that means they can't guarantee there won't be a blood test the day before, or ON the day of the fight. This is the hangup. Manny and his people are agreeing to have blood tests and urine tests but need to be sure they won't have blood taken close to or ON fight day so they want the folks that run the NFL/MLB's testing. Apparently they can make concessions that there will be no blood drawn within a few days of the fight.

Basically, Goldenboy is trying to make Manny look like a cheat and refuses to compromise. Looks like Floyd never wanted the fight. Not surprising.
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Well I think part of the problem is Mayweathers camp thinks Manny takes performance enhancing drugs, at least Mayweather Snr. used to openly accuse Manny of taking drugs. Manny is agreeing to as many urine tests as they want, and he wants to limit the blood taking as Timothy said, why isn't urine just as good as blood?
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Nabster
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Well I think part of the problem is Mayweathers camp thinks Manny takes performance enhancing drugs, at least Mayweather Snr. used to openly accuse Manny of taking drugs. Manny is agreeing to as many urine tests as they want, and he wants to limit the blood taking as Timothy said, why isn't urine just as good as blood?

Urine dosen't detect HGH and many of the latest and greatest designer drugs. Many have wondered about Manny not just Floyd Sr.

Also Manny looks bad as they keep throwing out excuses. First, Manny is scared of needles(um look at the tats). Second, Manny is worried about losing energy by having blood withdrawn 48 hours before the fight. That argument is flimsy at best considering the last test is 48 hours before the fight and is a mere teaspoon of blood.

I don't consider PBF's request outlandish at all.
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The blood tests aren't "outlandish". The fact that Goldenboy won't use a different organization that will meet both of their demands is the problem. Manny isn't resisting blood testing, their camp just wants to be SURE that blood won't be drawn too closely to fight day. A reasonable request as far as I'm concerned.

I read an interesting piece by Cliff Rold regarding the accusations of Manny being on steroids. The crux of the accusations is that he's moving up in weight(and carrying that power up) in ways that have never been seen before, Rold refutes this:

"Pacquiao is roughly the same size, as a small welterweight, as men like Barney Ross, Jimmy McLarin, and Jose Napoles were in their day. Like Pacquiao, McLarin started as a teenager near Flyweight yet scored big knockouts on all points of the scale. While Pacquiao was as low as Jr. Lightweight in 2008 and is competing successfully at Welterweight now, those were weigh-in weights rather than in-ring weights.

For the first fight with Juan Manuel Marquez in 2004 at Featherweight, Pacquiao hit the scales at 125lbs. He entered the ring, according to unofficial HBO scales, at 137 (or Jr. Welterweight). By 2006, for the third fight with Erik Morales, Pacquiao had moved up a weight division and weighted 129 officially and 144 (Welterweight) unofficially.

In other words, fighting in a division now where he doesn't have to dramatically dry out, he winds up weighing about the same on the scale as he has in the ring for the better part of 4 years and his in-ring weights are fairly consistent."

I think Manny is getting some unfair treatment at the moment. The guy agreed to 3 blood tests AND random urine testing throughout training camp and his only request is a guarantee that he will not have blood drawn in the few days leading up to the fight. No testing will be perfect for the situation but he's sure making far more concessions than anyone has ever made in boxing before.

Another interesting bit is that Goldenboy (Floyd's people) were on the exact opposite side of this debate about 2 years ago. When Zab Judah demanded Mosley take independent blood tests (which Mosley agreed to, BTW) Goldenboy flat out refused the request on the basis that Shane wasn't a cheater and refused to treat him like one. Oh, boxing politics...

EDIT: For those that don't know, Mosley was caught up in that BALCO fiasco in 2003. He was, in fact, a cheater.
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Ah shit. The fight is off, and Manny is suing Gayweather Jr. I don't know who is more in the wrong, but Manny was agreeing to blood tests imediately after the fight. Its too bad, it would've been an extremely interesting fight.
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Happy Boxing Day, everyone!
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The thing is, I get the feeling Manny would never shy away from a fight. While FMJr has a much more padded resume. Manny has certainly had tougher fights throughout his career, or tougher opponents. So I kinda feel like this is Floyd ducking the fight. I don't know, the other possibility is Manny is actually taking drugs, but Timothy refutes this quite nicely. And is it even possible for Manny to do this and get away with it? For some reason I just don't believe Manny would take performance enhancing drugs, way too much on the line for him, the guy is running for congress.
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There is way too much $$$$$$$$ involved for this fight to be totally called off. Its most likely just delayed till May or-more probable-Sept. IMO this isn't helping Mayweather's cause. It makes it look like he's avoiding Manny and cojuring up this whole blood test BS to make it look like Pac-man's camp is up to no good. Did Hagler, Hearns, Ray Leonard, Duran, et al ever accuse his opponent of this kind of BS?
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Thats the problem. Its one thing asking for strict drug testing, but both Mayweather Jr, and Senior have openly accused Manny of taking performance enhancing drugs. Manny is seriously pissed off, I don't know if I remember him ever calling out another boxer. If the fight were to happen it would be even bigger now, but I fear Mayweather is determined to avoid the fight.
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There is a very real possibility this is all just good promotion "now it's personal" stuff. The fight is still three months out and it's at the front of everyone's minds (not bad for a sport that's allegedly dying). Who knows? there is some funny stuff that's going on now regarding the lawsuit. Schaeffer seems to be throwing the Mayweathers under the bus regarding the testing and allegations. He basically says that they were just doing what Mayweather Jr. wanted... nice way of distancing himself from the allegations and putting it squarely on Floyd.

Oh... and what about Floyd? It basically sounds like he doesn't think he can beat Manny. He's saying "This guy is so good, he's gotta be on something. I'm not risking my perfect record against him." Mark it on the calender, Floyd finally admits he's scared of a guy.

Unless Manny fails a drug test some time, this all just makes Floyd look even worse than his previous record of ducking opponents did. I doubted all along that this fight would happen because Floyd is gutless. I hope I'm wrong.
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I see what everyone is saying about Floyd ducking. What does this say about Manny, it's teaspoon of blood. It's not like Floyd was not going to have a test at the same time.

Neither boxer is a favorite of mine, I just do not understand the big deal of a drug test the day of the fight.
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Having blood drawn sometimes creates a bit of bruising and weakness in the arm, specifically in the area around the elbow. For a boxer this isn't really ideal for the biggest fight of your life. Some people just have shitty reactions to the process. Right now my friend's arm on the inside of his elbow up and down a few inches is black and blue from having blood drawn and he claims his arm "is dead". Meanwhile, I can have blood drawn and it'll be a little sore but I don't bruise or anything.

Anyway, the negotiations go on... Now Arum is telling Goldenboy to fuck themselves and he's just going to do whatever the Nevada commission requires (urine testing is all they require). Schaefer and Goldenboy are saying they'll move off of USADA and negotiate some other way of getting the blood testing they want.

What we're seeing now is hardcore negotiating between two professionals. One asks for the world, the other refuses to give anything and they're going to meet in the middle at some point. Pretty good work, considering that during it all they have the world (including me, the eternal skeptic) worrying about the fight not happening and creating more interest.
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Well, Floyd has successfully ducked yet another fighter. What a waste of talent. I guess his fans can look forward to seeing him outpoint some dude that's smaller than him for the rest of his career. I'm personally done with him... I won't watch another fight of his until he fights someone difficult.
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http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/box...ory?id=4772853

They have agreed to three of the four points on blood testing. The sticking point appears to be the final test before the fight. The article reads like Manny doesn't want to test at least 30 days before the fight. I've also seen a quote from Roach that there cool with anything 72 hours and out. So who knows, I got a feeling everyone is gonna get a itch or a big payday.
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Great article on this whole ordeal. Interesting stuff about the advantages of urine testing over blood testing and vice versa, an entire history of this saga from back when Floyd came out of retirement, link to Floyd's on air debate about his ducking with Brian Kenny of ESPN as well as RA the Rugged Man calling him out on radio... anyone with lingering questions should enjoy:

http://theboxingtruth.com/article.php?id=1345

EDIT: Yeah jl, I'm hoping those dollars are too irresistible. The problem is that Floyd seems to think there is more money in being undefeated than one fight with Manny and a risk of losing. Seemed to be his reasoning with Mosley for the past 5 years too, although not nearly as much money was at stake.
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Very interesting article.

The only way i can see Floyd fighting is if the public pressure and criticizm is strong enough. The article does say Golden Boy may be agreeing to use the Nevada Sports Commission, so hopefully it'll still happen.
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Yeah, just read a new article that sounds like Manny may be willing to have blood drawn up to 14 days before the bout... so that's progress. I'm always expecting Floyd to get out of it somehow though. I've been saying it since he came out of retirement but I'll mention it again. A training camp "injury" to Floyd will probably delay the fight if it's ever made. The guy just wants the easy money. Eh, can't blame him but I don't have to respect him as a fighter either.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Timothy Q
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Yeah, just read a new article that sounds like Manny may be willing to have blood drawn up to 14 days before the bout... so that's progress. I'm always expecting Floyd to get out of it somehow though. I've been saying it since he came out of retirement but I'll mention it again. A training camp "injury" to Floyd will probably delay the fight if it's ever made. The guy just wants the easy money. Eh, can't blame him but I don't have to respect him as a fighter either.

It's funny someone today asked Arum about why Pac gave blood two weeks before the Hatton fight. The proof of this is on the HBO show 24/7, it wasn't a teaspoon it was a vile. Arum had to throw Manny under the bus on that one.
Big discussion at the boxing scene about it. Seems to make Manny look bad.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by jl1718
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It's funny someone today asked Arum about why Pac gave blood two weeks before the Hatton fight. The proof of this is on the HBO show 24/7, it wasn't a teaspoon it was a vile. Arum had to throw Manny under the bus on that one.
Big discussion at the boxing scene about it. Seems to make Manny look bad.

Honestly, Manny lets everyone talk for him. Who the hell knows what he has actually been saying. Everyone seems to be so full of shit in these negotiations. First it was that he was afraid of needles, then it was superstition, then it was the length of time before the fight, then it was no blood tests, now it's 14 days... I doubt Arum kept going back to him to get a new excuse, you know? Arum is a shrewd negotiator so I'm assuming he just ran the whole show... Schaefer too. They just need to get this shit done or everyone; Floyd, Manny and boxing... they all come out looking bad.
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So now Goldenboy is planting shit in the press that Manny's representatives requested a dirty test be "kept secret". NO ONE would request that. These guys are scumbags, I can't imagine this fight getting made. Goldenboy's people have done everything in their power to make sure Manny won't work with them. Anything to protect your fighter I guess. We all know how the spin is going to be but lets face it, there is only one superstar in the sport that can't seem to make any fights with top fighters and that's Floyd. And don't give me any "they don't really wanna fight him" nonsense, EVERYONE wants to fight him. I swear, I'm not watching another one of his fights until he fights Mosley or Manny. His legacy will always be one of a talented fighter that ducked his toughest opposition at their peaks. The small article regarding the planted information is linked below:

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=24414
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Yea, its a ridiculous thing to claim. There are some interesting interviews with Floyd on youtube, and its seriously unbelievable how pathetic his excuses are.
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This says about as much as you need to know about Manny and Floyd...

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=24512

So, if and when the biggest fight in the world falls apart these guys need to go on and fight someone else. Manny chooses to fight a guy that will come into the fight at 170lbs and Floyd chooses a guy that has 5 KO's in 30 fights. Yup, everything is as it should be here.

At least when Manny was going to fight Paulie you could make a case that he was preparing for Floyd by taking on a speedy defensive fighter. Floyd isn't preparing for anyone, he's just taking another fight where he can't get hurt. Gutless.
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I would have said that this is all part of the pre-fight "hype" but now I think this fight is in real jeopardy, and we may have till Sep. or Nov. for it to happen; if its going to happen at all. I still think a March fight is possible but I'm not hopeful.

BTW, I voted in that poll with the link you provided Tim and I'm surprised how many people think Pac.-Man will win in a KO. I think it'll go 12 with Pac. winning a decision but if its a close fight with some controversy then everyone should probably expect a trilogy.
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Eh, you can't really depend on those polls on that site for any accuracy. There is a very high concentration of very rabid Filipinos out there.

General opinion is that if Manny wins he wins by KO and if Floyd wins he's taking a decision but I don't know about that. I think you're right and there is a really good chance Manny takes the decision. Aggression is generally rewarded in close rounds and there should be plenty of those. Okay, not in Hagler V Sugar Ray but usually rewarded. I'm going against the grain and saying that if Floyd wins he needs a KO, he's simply not busy enough to win a majority of the rounds against a guy like Manny.

All the questions in this fight are on Floyd's side. Does he have the chin to hang with Manny? Will he be aggressive enough to win rounds? Can he be elusive enough to avoid all the shit Manny will throw at him? There are no surprises from Manny's side. He'll go in, bounce around and he'll dish out a little more than he takes. He'll be busier and hit harder... no mysteries there.

Time's running out though. I don't see this fight happening. That's my real prediction.

EDIT: Okay, I'm curious if Manny can avoid the jabs. He ate Cotto's left for quite a few rounds before he wore him down. That could be something Floyd does to win rounds and set something up... hmmm. I really wanna see this fight.
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Sounds like the fight is DOA. Blame almost completely lies with Mayweather. Not his camp or his promoter. Mayweather.
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