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I still DO like Star Wars
MAGIC!!!

(01-11-2020, 04:27 PM)rexbanner Wrote: It's a weird impulse on the part of the film-makers, because space travel is infinitely cooler and weightier if it at least requires care and a little time. When I was a kid I always figured lightspeed journeys were somewhat time-consuming and difficult - otherwise, why wouldn't the Empire have immediately bombed Yavin directly the Death Star blew up, and why does Han consider going to visit Jabba the Hutt something that would require leaving the rebellion?

since space travel is basically magic in these movies, it ends up operating like any other form of travel in movies that have already established such things once... and then no longer have the story room to account for it when pacing and story expediency become priorities

I think pretty much all long running popular series end up doing this... on top of which, movies just naturally do this to begin with when it comes to relative long distances.  Movies cheat that all the time.  the star war is no different

of course, JJ is the terrible apotheosis of this practice (from the star treks to the star war)... but the general impulse is not weird to me.  Some movies hide it better than others early on... but that eventually goes out the window as a series goes on.
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I would now kinda like to see that ROTS climax arranged another way, and see how it plays. I'm basically indifferent to the way the duels are intercut-- not a superfan, but no real problem with it either.

But, something like the travel to Mustafar isn't exactly what I was meaning,*if* that is in fact the most dramatically satisfying way of arranging that sequence. Treat hyperspace travel as routine and maybe play fast and loose with the "rules", okay, if the point of the sequence is something else. My problem is the new movies' heavier use of it as a lazy plot-problem solver or in the service of an empty gag, when the supposed 
difficulty of it used to provide, wachacallit, dramatic tension.
Our sanitariums are full of men who think they're Napoleon... Or God.
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hyperspace is like jedi powers

they served a specific plot function in the moment when they were introduced... and then there's an obligation to hold onto it as a piece of worldbuilding while also having to deal with it as a problematic "well why don't they just do that all the time?" issue as a filmmaker (or filmmakers) want to do something else with the story/world

it's why EMPIRE simply takes Han's easy-move away from him for the entire runtime... but makes it as simple as R2 simply switching it back on. PRETTY CHEAP, KERSHNER!!!

I think Johnson's use of hyperspace-fuel-slow-chase was an attempt to deal with that aspect of the series. Obviously that didn't go over well with a lot of people hahahaha


the problem with separating the duels in ROTS to have them play out in full is that it would likely result in a movie with one CLIMACTIC-feeling duel of the fates following right after another. And considering how elaborate Lucas wanted to go with each of them, I don't see that playing well at all. I imagine it would feel like some felt with LAST JEDI where the big PEAK of the Holdo maneuver was followed by 30 more minutes on Crait. Except it would end up being one elaborate world-shattering lazurswurd battle after another.
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In TROS, what plot function was served by Poe's "skip-jumping" or whatever the hell it was called? A normal movie, placing that sequence right at the beginning, would be setting something up for later on.
"I'd rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth."--Steve McQueen
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none! it was just something cool for fans to go "COOL!" at! just a fancy fireworks version of using hyperspace to escape during a pursuit

it's like Han's "oh I'll just use lightspeed to jump through the shield's refresh rate!" coming out of nowhere in forwakens... but placed at the beginning. utterly arbitrary... making shields suddenly kinda pointless?

since star war isn't sci-fi in the technical sense... and the story is generally seen as one that can easily be transcribed to a more earthbound setting... hyperspace was a fun sci-fi-dressing plot device that simply allowed the Falcon to escape the star destroyer after leaving mos eisley (I NEED SOME NOS!!!!)... and then another bit of world-building info to indicate that a single tie fighter couldn't be out in space on its own for some reason, etc etc.

and this is in the same movie in which Leia's ship wasn't using lightspeed to get away from the star destroyer right after the crawl! DID THAT STAR DESTROYER HAVE HYPERSPACE TRACKING???? WAS LEIA'S BLOCKADE RUNNER OUT OF HYPERSPACE FUEL????

and then there's the fact that the death star can enter light speed! which none of the movies (old or new) actually want to show, probably because it would look really funny!

it's all PLOT HANDWAVING trying to balance between story immersion and striking new visual flair!! it's just way more noticeable after 6-7 movies!
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I don't necessarily need it dealt with. It's coming up with new ways to use these ideas that were ill-defined fantastical nonsense in the first place, and then treating it as novel, that strikes me as lazy. We can only solve this problem by reversing the polarity on the dilithium crystals! It's a floor wax and a dessert topping!

You can set up the difficulty-- odds of successfully navigating an asteroid field, say-- and it seems like a real accomplishment when the hero pulls through because-- well, look at all those fucking space rocks. What, meanwhile, are the odds of hyperjumping into the atmosphere of Starkiller Base? Very high! Let's do it anyway! Yay, we did it!

We're basically in agreement that it's all hand-waving; finding good dramatic purpose for it is the thing.
Our sanitariums are full of men who think they're Napoleon... Or God.
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it's why I have much more problem with Han's easy shrugging off of a powerful shield... (which is basically a cheap way of getting the MILLIENNIUM TYDIRIUM onto the shield generator's location)

and no problem with the Holdo maneuver, which took about half a film to actually set up and build to in a moment of some consequence

the hyperspace skipping at the beginning of risewalker is less of an issue for me, because it's at the beginning of the second JJ star war (where such arbitrary hijinks are now totally expected) and is basically no different from Han simply hyperspace-ing away for a daring escape
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I've got way less of a problem with the Holdo thing than a lot of people. I imagine there are hyperdrive safeties and what not that could be removed but-that's-crazy-and suicidal-why-would-you-ever-want-to-do-that, and that's why it hadn't been done before and doesn't "break" the world. (They really shouldn't have lampshaded it in TROS.) And it works as a scene.

I do kinda put it in the "empty gag" category with the hyperspace skipping, because the cool visual feels like its main purpose. I could see Johnson working his way backward-- maybe even creating the Holdo character-- from there. But, again, essentially a good scene.

The skipping is just bad. Doesn't feel like daring escape. It's just there. And it's really obnoxious having recently suffered through the revamped Star Tours, also featuring Treasonous Mutineer Poe Dameron.

I recently was watching a final season episode of REBELS and Hera plots a hyperjump trajectory that takes her though the bay of some orbiting Imperial whatsit, leaving a wake of destruction. I'm guessing that came out after TLJ, but I didn't check. Works even better there... but most things on REBELS do.
Our sanitariums are full of men who think they're Napoleon... Or God.
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I watched a bit of ROGUE ONE's finale last night

I really like the battering ram maneuver... but it's pretty funny how one star destroyer quite literally slices through another like TISSSSSSSYEW PAYPAHHHHHHH by sloooowly rubbing up against it!

it crumbles like a flaky croissant! those things must be super fragile!

LOOKS COOL THOUGH!
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I meeeeeeeeean, all aircraft are super fragile when you throw another aircraft at them. Spacecraft even moreso. Trust me. I've tried it.
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perhaps bucho is more fragile than I thought...

I thought he was made of sterner stuff
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Like my dad Han Solo it's all an act.
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(01-11-2020, 09:28 PM)Bucho Wrote: Like my dad Han Solo it's all an act.

   
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Nooj gets it.
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Alden doesn't have very positive feelings about the current state of his career.

(slide whistle)
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Alden deserves so much better.
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Would that it were so simple!
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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Yeah, it is disappointing to see that SOLO (for the time being) basically tanked his career.

He's good in the movie!
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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Maybe Tarantino will cast him in his Star Trek movie and Travolta him.

THE IRONY!
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Alden deserves another chance. If not in an action movie, then another Coen brothers movie.
I've got good news and I've got bad news. The bad news is I've lost my way. The good news is I'm way ahead of schedule!
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