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Avatar post-release discussion
Quote:

Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny
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I'll say this, because it's just as good a time as any. Some small part of me, microscopic though it may be, kind of wishes that James Cameron had walked away with Best Director / Best Picture. Not because he deserved it, because he didn't, not because I like the film, because I don't, but because I can't help but be just a little impressed that this fucking guy took a doomsday forecast and turned it into blue skies and sunlight.

People were betting against him, betting hard and hatefully, and he flipped it in the biggest way possible, and for the people that pay attention to these things, broke his own fucking record in the process.

I say a small part of me wishes he would have won because if I were him, when I hit that podium, I wouldn't have said a word, I would have just laughed, and laughed, and fucking laughed, then walked off the stage leaving everyone in stunned silence.

He already did that with Titanic though. There were so many doomsday reports about Titanic being a massive clusterfuck and the biggest bomb EVER prior to release, that I'm surprised Cameron didn't laugh(and laugh, and laugh) when he did that acceptance speech.

I still love Cameron. He's a giant asshole and I kind of find that awesome, because it's almost cartoonish now.
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That's what I'm saying, the man did it twice. That's insane. It doesn't make me like him or respect him any more as a filmmaker (I don't despise him, but The Terminator is still the only film of his that I own and have a genuine affection for), but I just felt that what he's done is deserving of a highlight, if nothing else.
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So I finally got around to watching this on regular ole' DVD.

Then I read Nick's and Devin's reviews and agree with both. It is the best film (to date) that James Cameron has made, includes all his themes, stock characters (including Hot Tough Chicks Who Smoke!) and does so with superb craftsmanship. But I won't watch it again, was not moved to contemplate suicide so I could be reincarnated as a Nav'i (and God was that a true story or did some Studio Flack invent it? Where are those "Bluecoats" now?), nor was I blown away but the spectacle.

But I was highly impressed by the spectacle, and the FX were flawless. So after close to a year's hype and argument, I'd say it's worth a looksee, but not worth the 46 pages of this thread.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Cylon Baby
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was not moved to contemplate suicide so I could be reincarnated as a Nav'i (and God was that a true story or did some Studio Flack invent it? Where are those "Bluecoats" now?)

It was a thread on an Avatar fan forum from a fan who was supposedly suicidal after realising how crap the real world is compared to Avatar. Pretty sure most of the posts in it came from trolls after the original thread went viral, and it wouldn't surprise me if the original post was from someone taking the piss as well, making it a big piss-taking circle jerk. But suicidal fans seem to have become part of the movie's legend now anyway.

I should probably give it a second viewing. I suspect that my first reaction was on the money, in that it was at worst a formulaic but well executed blockbuster. Too dependent on stock genre tropes to stand out as something all that remarkable beyond its the visuals (and the 3D didn't even do it for me), but definitely didn't earn the sneering parade of contempt it attracted on here.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82
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Somehow, Wayward managed to avoid most of Kate's posts until now (how!?) and got a full blast of it in this thread. She looked into the sun and... you know the rest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXy0JrUpXts
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul C
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I should probably give it a second viewing. I suspect that my first reaction was on the money, in that it was at worst a formulaic but well executed blockbuster. Too dependent on stock genre tropes to stand out as something all that remarkable beyond its the visuals (and the 3D didn't even do it for me), but definitely didn't earn the sneering parade of contempt it attracted on here.

Actually, it attracted quite a wide variety of opinions around here. The thread didn't get to this page count with nothing but snide contempt.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess Kate
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wayward was on topic and I will respond to her tomorrow.

So why haven't you responded?
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Anyone else grab the new DVD/blu release?

I really dig the longest cut(of the 3), and wish they had finished up more of the cut footage. I was surprised at the amount of deleted scenes I would have really liked to see back in the film. None of it is radically different, so if you're expecting more of the cool stuff from the scriptment, you won't find it.

Nice to see the Na'Vi attack/aftermath, and particularly the Earth scenes. I would have loved an aerial shot of Cameron's vision of a megalopolis, but that may just be the effects whore in me. Haven't had a good one of those since the Fifth Element.
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I'm waiting for my copy of the 3 disc blu-ray to come from Amazon...should be here tomorrow! Definitely looking forward to seeing that longest cut.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexus-7
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Anyone else grab the new DVD/blu release?

I really dig the longest cut(of the 3), and wish they had finished up more of the cut footage. I was surprised at the amount of deleted scenes I would have really liked to see back in the film. None of it is radically different, so if you're expecting more of the cool stuff from the scriptment, you won't find it.

Nice to see the Na'Vi attack/aftermath, and particularly the Earth scenes. I would have loved an aerial shot of Cameron's vision of a megalopolis, but that may just be the effects whore in me. Haven't had a good one of those since the Fifth Element.

Babylon AD?

BTW, I am excited to see this new cut just as soon as I can afford to buy it. I always thought the movie needed to have scenes on the dead earth to contrast with the green Pandora


EDIT I will respond to Wayward's post tomorrow
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Babylon AD Has a decent future city, but it's more just a spruced-up(and neon!) NYC. NYC in the Fifth Element was almost like a mountain range of buildings when you finally saw a grand shot of it(as they fly away).

I'm thinking more massive. As I recall from the scriptment the city took up most of the East Coast. Some Mega City One-type shit. I don't know if the Fifth Element city is even massive enough for what I'm talking about.

I'm not overly hung-up on this, it's just something I've always wanted to see in a film.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexus-7
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Babylon AD Has a decent future city, but it's more just a spruced-up(and neon!) NYC. NYC in the Fifth Element was almost like a mountain range of buildings when you finally saw a grand shot of it(as they fly away).
.

Fair enough. It was not supposed to be a super advanced city, merely one that had been neonified to the point where it had become a hell. It fits into the whole BABYLON AD universe that way, I wrote about my thoughts on the B.A.D. megaopolis at length in that thread
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexus-7
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I'm thinking more massive. As I recall from the scriptment the city took up most of the East Coast. Some Mega City One-type shit. I don't know if the Fifth Element city is even massive enough for what I'm talking about.

I'm not overly hung-up on this, it's just something I've always wanted to see in a film.

Like the Boston-Atlanta metro access corridor thing from Gibson's Sprawl Trilogy? A giant super city the size of the east coast? That is exactly what the city in BABYLON AD is, BTW. The film opens with a shot from space that shows that's what America looks like, for what it's worth

Anyway, I am still excited to see AVATAR's earth scenes

I was at WALMART today and I saw the special edition DVD. They have awesome cases and art! It was full of glowing spirit tree seeds going to Jake's outstretched hand. I wish that someday studios wouldn't keep their good box art in a drawer until the double dip

If you have better art, use it. Don't go with ugly DVD case art just as some kind of double dipping scheme
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I really enjoyed the long cut as well, I felt it added some more "heart" to the movie. Especially the added scenes with Grace and her backstory with the school that was attacked. I also really liked the new beginning, but that is some fucked up mask fashion taking place. Try and pause the movie as Sully crosses the pedestrian crossing.

All in all an improvement and definitely the prefered edition in the future. Also, holy fuck at the quality of this thing. On a large TV the colors and effects look incredible, more even so than in the theater I think. The Imax 3D was incredible, but that regular RealD really diminished those colors.
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At this point, I think that's one of the major problems with 3D. The muting of the colors is a real issue for me, especially with animated films.
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Yeah despite having been a big proponent of the technology I'm beginning to change my views. The 3D works very well with animated features but it comes with a cost too high. Colors are simply too important with these movies in particular. Toy Story 3 looked so much better in 2D.

Avatar Imax is the only "traditional" movie that really blew my mind in regards to 3D, but every single shot of that movie was preplanned to the nth degree for the 3D.
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I think the colour muting is more of a projectionist issue than a 3D issue. Theatres already dim their projector bulbs for 2D, they probably use the same bulb setting for 3D.

If you use a 3DTV you'll note that by default the TV maxes the backlight as soon as you turn 3D mode on to compensate for any dimming effect from the glasses.
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It's not entirely a projector bulb issue. I flipped my glasses up and down a few times during these movies just to make sure. The glasses definitely dial down the color intensity. It's one of the reasons I enjoyed Up more on Blu Ray than I did in the theater.
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Aren't these 3D films supposed to be printed with a more intense brightness to compensate to begin with?
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg David
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It's not entirely a projector bulb issue. I flipped my glasses up and down a few times during these movies just to make sure. The glasses definitely dial down the color intensity.

That's what I meant. The projector bulbs for 3D films should be dialed up to compensate for the dimming caused by the glasses. If they've got the bulbs set to the same level as they do for 2D films (which is already lower than it should be), then it's only going to make it worse.
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Revisiting this on Blu recently on my brand new 50" plasma. Story cliches and character depth aside, it's certainly IMMERSIVE. Sitting close to my new tv with that clarity. Jeez. And I'm more sure of it now... Zoe Saldana is captivating in this. Much of it is the size of her eyes and exotic sleekness, but the performance capture and animation tweaks delivered a living/breathing alien here that I couldn't help but be drawn to. I'd probably "go native" like JakeSully too. [/Furry "confusion"]
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God help me, I really don't mind the extended cut of this film. I mean, it doesn't feel significantly longer than the theatrical cut and it gives the admittedly cliched story a bit more detail. So it's probably my favorite version of the film thus far. For all its flaws, AVATAR is still a very watchable fun film.
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I think the scene at the school, and related bits added to the characters and story. The bit on Earth, not so much. Having to wear masks and stuff may have sucked, but it didn't seem that the Earth was as much on the brink as some people may have believed.
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So. It's been eighteen months. Anyone revised their opinion yet? I kinda hope so.

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I still find it very enjoyable but I do prefer the extended cut. And it looks gorgeous on BR.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather View Post

So. It's been eighteen months. Anyone revised their opinion yet? I kinda hope so.



Does it matter what one's opinion was to start with?

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Ranking Cameron.....

1. The Terminator

2. Aliens

3. Terminator II: Judgment Day

4. The Abyss

5. Avatar

6. True Lies

7. Titanic

8. Piranha II: The Spawning

The only one I don't like is Piranha, which was taken out of his hands and partially reshot anyway.  Titanic is decent and I pretty much love the rest.  The top three are absolute classics.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post

Does it matter what one's opinion was to start with?


I just can't fathom this getting the same breathless love it got now that perspective has had a chance to take hold.

Man, TITANIC is so much better than this.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather View Post

So. It's been eighteen months. Anyone revised their opinion yet? I kinda hope so.


I'll NEVER revise my opinion!!!!!  I found it middling in nearly every aspect then, and I dislike it even more now!!!!

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AHA! You like it even LESS! Flip-flopper.

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Oh yea... hahahahah

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Time for Merriweather's Biennial AVATAR Taunting Update!




Nooj: Is AVATAR better or worse than MAN OF STEEL? Or are both films equally destitute in their respective quests to be watchable pieces of cinematic adventure?

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AAVADAH is super lame!

STEEL MAN is super rotten!
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I like as much as I did when I first saw it.  Every-time i start it i get drawn into it.  It's not a classic, but it's a fun movie.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by S.D. Bob Plissken View Post
 

Ranking Cameron.....



1. The Terminator


2. Aliens


3. Terminator II: Judgment Day


4. The Abyss


5. Avatar


6. True Lies


7. Titanic


8. Piranha II: The Spawning



The only one I don't like is Piranha, which was taken out of his hands and partially reshot anyway.  Titanic is decent and I pretty much love the rest.  The top three are absolute classics.


1.  Aliens


2.  Titanic


3.  The Abyss


4.  T1


5.  T2


6.  Avatar


7.  True Lies

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A1) Abyss
2) Aliens
3) T2
4) Titanic
5) Avatar
6) T2 Battle Across Time 3D
7) Terminator
8) True Lies
9) Ghosts of the Abyss
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