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The Racism & Social Injustice Catch-All
#36

Every facet of this story makes me queasy. Greatly aided by the fact that "gated communities" creep me the fuck out.

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#37


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Vivisector View Post



Why is the FBI getting involved? Well, I know I've seen coverage of this story for several weeks on NBC's Today Show and the Nightly News. I'm far more certain that kind of heat has finally gotten someones attention in Washington.  Signing petitions, be it for the forced return of Firefly to Fox or something like this, have equal impact upon the powers that be--none at all.. Petitions are reliably unreliable. They can be signed online by any number of people multiple times. But they do make you feel good about doing something, I suppose. But ultimately, they're of no consequence.



Again, look at when the story happened and look at when people started paying attention to it. The news didn't just immediately pick this up and say "this is an important story." They needed to get pressure to do so. Of course, that's not all from petitions, but to say that they never do any good other than make people feel better is beyond cynical. So what if they make people feel better? As if that's a bad thing? The largest petition was created by the kids mom. If it makes her feel better, you should fucking sign it, if for nothing else but to show her that you stand with her.

But by all means, be a stubborn, cynical dude who insists that no petition has ever worked ever.

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#38


Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post

Every facet of this story makes me queasy. Greatly aided by the fact that "gated communities" creep me the fuck out.



Yeah, they're huge in the Sunbelt, and it's even worse in Florida.

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#39

Martin was on the phone with a friend while Zimmerman was stalking him.

Quote:
"He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man," Martin's friend said. "I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run but he said he was not going to run."
Eventually he would run, said the girl, thinking that he'd managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin.
"Trayvon said, 'What, are you following me for,' and the man said, 'What are you doing here.' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again and he didn't answer the phone."
The line went dead. Besides screams heard on 911 calls that night as Martin and Zimmerman scuffled, those were the last words he said.

Yeah, you're a big damn hero, Zimmerman.  You keep that neighborhood safe.

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#40

Do you have to be American to sign these? Because I totally want to add my name to the petitions after reading this thread and listening to the tapes.

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#41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parker View Post

The largest petition was created by the kids mom. If it makes her feel better, you should fucking sign it, if for nothing else but to show her that you stand with her.

But by all means, be a stubborn, cynical dude who insists that no petition has ever worked ever.


This.  I'm generally that cynical guy who rolls his eyes and avoids signing online petitions.  I signed both.

Quote:


Definitely gives the whole missing cellphone angle mentioned in the motherjones article a whole new layer of depth.

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#42


Quote:
Originally Posted by Subotai View Post



Yeah, they're huge in the Sunbelt, and it's even worse in Florida.


Is there a big problem with roving bands of barbarians over there?

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#43

I've been following coverage of this over the last week or so and was initially shocked and angry.  But as more information has come out, the shock has turned into sadness, anger  to exasperation.  As that fantastic Mother Jones article shows, there is a ludicrous amount of incompetence in regards to the policework done thus far.  The fact that the police chief finds the outrage incomprehensible and is convinced that his department has done a good day's work is almost damning, knowing what we know.  While it's easy to write this off as another "small, backwards, racist Southern town," the fact of the matter is that this sort of stuff exists everywhere.    Many friends of mine in high school lived in some of the richest, whitest and most quietly-vehement racist gated communities/developments on the west side of Cleveland.  More often than not, their parents would pepper conversations with bits of "wisdom", which consisted of racist "bon mots" and stereotypical "quips."  It struck me even then that it was all so very wrong-headed and was leading them (and most people in the community) into a dangerously insular place.  With the level of distrust and paranoia over the different, I was always surprised you never heard of anything tragic happening.  While Ohio does have a "stand your ground" law, it only pertains to residence and vehicles.  If it was more "make your day," there was no reason to say it wouldn't have.

An even scarier thought is what precedent is set in the (pretty unlikely) situation that nothing ultimately happens to Zimmerman?

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#44

The thing that bothers me about the "Stand Your Ground" defense is that there's every indication Zimmerman was clearly the aggressor here.  So what exactly was he defending himself from?  A Skittle to the eye?

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#45

    I just read on msn.com that a grand jury will be convened on April 10Th and the FBI is going to investigate. It looks the the public pressure worked.

    Why didn't the 911 operator chew Zimmerman out for wasting their time with his weak suspicion?!

I've got good news and I've got bad news. The bad news is that I have lost my way. The good news is that I'm way ahead of schedule.
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#46


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz View Post

       Why didn't the 911 operator chew Zimmerman out for wasting their time with his weak suspicion?!


Wwll, if you listen to the tapes, the 911 operators seem to not be too concerned about things until there are gunshots heard over the phone.  I'd be curious to see what the response was from the many calls from the operator computer records.

As for what happens if the criminal justice system fails, I suspect the family will pursue Zimmerman through the civil courts. There's a less stringent burden of proof there.

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#47

   I don't think that the 911 operator telling Zimmerman to quit wasting their time would have stopped him, but it would make the Florida justice system look less broken.

I've got good news and I've got bad news. The bad news is that I have lost my way. The good news is that I'm way ahead of schedule.
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#48


Quote:

An even scarier thought is what precedent is set in the (pretty unlikely) situation that nothing ultimately happens to Zimmerman?



The way things are heading, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if people track him down themselves.

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#49



Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post


Is there a big problem with roving bands of barbarians over there?



 If by "barbarians" you mean "poor" people or, even worse, minorites. The type of people that have the nerve to think they have just as much of a right to walk on a street as they do.

It's the ultimate way to show how much better "we" are.

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#50

Zimmerman's account:

According to the Miami Herald, Zimmerman told the police that he had stepped out of his SUV to check the name of the street he was on, and that Trayvon sprang out of nowhere to attack him from behind as he was walking back to his truck. He said he feared for his life and shot Martin in self-defense. That account doesn't easily fit into the narrative cobbled together from what evidence had been made public.

Zimmerman's call to 911:

"This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something," Zimmerman tells the 911 operator. "He's just staring, looking at all the houses. Now he's coming toward me. He's got his hand in his waistband. Something's wrong with him."

Zimmerman described Martin as wearing a hoodie and sweatpants or jeans.

Zimmerman continues: "He's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands. I don't know what his deal is. Can we get an officer over here?"

"These assholes always get away," he says later to the operator. Zimmerman is then heard giving directions to the dispatcher.

"Shit, he's running," Zimmerman says.

"Are you following him?" the dispatcher asks.

"Yes," Zimmerman responds.

"We don't need you to do that," the dispatcher says.

Zimmerman continued to pursue Martin, and moments later other calls started coming in to 911. Neighbors reported hearing screams, cries for help and then gunfire. Some sobbed as they talked about a dead boy and a man standing over him. In one recording, the sounds of wailing and what seem to be pleas for help and "No! No!" can be heard.

What actually happened:

Just moments before Trayvon Martin was shot and killed, he was on his cellphone talking with a 16-year-old girl. For the first time, the girl is speaking out about the last, horrifying moments of Martin's life.

"He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man," the girl told ABC News. "I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run but he said he was not going to run."

According to accounts gleaned from 911 audio recordings made the night of the killing and the teenage girl's statements, Martin eventually did run. But Zimmerman wasn't far behind, and soon the two would be face to face. Zimmerman, the self-appointed captain of the neighborhood watch, was armed with a 9mm pistol. Trayvon had little more than a bag of candy in his pocket.

"Trayvon said, 'What are you following me for?' and the man said, 'What are you doing here?' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the headset just fell. I called him again and he didn't answer the phone."

The line went dead, according to the girl's account.

source

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#51

Quote:
Some sobbed as they talked about a dead boy and a man standing over him...

This has sickened me to the point of tears.

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#52

If for whatever reason, Zimmerman is acquitted (this shit is going to trial, is going to be huge and there will be movies of the week for years), what city burns down? I am genuinely curious. This feels like it could go the way of a Rodney King if it goes south.

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#53

Lake Mary/Sanford is pretty close to Orlando, but Martin was from the Miami area, which seems much more likely to be where something like that goes down.

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#54


Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post

Lake Mary/Sanford is pretty close to Orlando, but Martin was from the Miami area, which seems much more likely to be where something like that goes down.


I haven't lived in Central FL for over 15 years, but I could easily see parts of Orlando experiencing some unrest, if not actual riots.

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#55


Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Decade View Post

Disgusting.

Bugs sawing off Florida.gif



You missed a spot, Doc.

south.png

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#56

n36619244_35369672_232.jpg

If only they weren't so sexy...

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#57

Listening to his voice, and seeing his face, Zimmerman is pretty obviously mentally ill. I have a hard time labeling him as evil per se, as I'm willing to bet that he's got a host of problems related to paranoia, anxiety, and aggression. It was probably just a matter of time for this guy. I just have to wonder a) how he never got diagnosed, and b) how the hell was he allowed to buy a gun?

Oh wait, it's the south.

Those aspects of this case aren't as flat out disturbing as the racial component, of course, but they're still there. After our nation moves on, tut-tuts racism, and then pats itself on the back for doing so, we'll just get back to the business of being shitty about mental health and guns. EDIT: And we also probably won't be any less racist.

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#58

How long before the NRA doubles down in some stupid way and says something like "this wouldn't have happened if the kid had a gun", I wonder.

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#59

Gunfights for everyone! America just like God intended!

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#60

I know the South is a favorite target around here, and most often deservedly so, but any quick Google search can turn up hundreds of tragedies like this all over the country. Why don't we try to keep this to case specifics, eh? When you start lumping entire regions together in hatred you end up sounding a lot like those other people who don't want mosques built here.

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#61

Besides, the area in which this happened is as un-South as you can get.

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#62

I don't hate the South. I grew up there, and still kinda live there, but I think that Northern VA has been excommunicated. But I've never been anywhere with as much a screw loose when it comes to gun laws, and all of America is pitiful when it comes to providing mental health services. Don't mean to paint the place with too broad a brush, my eyes have just been jaundiced by love and disappointment.

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#63

I think it's important for everyone to focus their anger here. This case has nothing to do with the "Castle Doctrine" or gun laws in general. This is a case of a lowlife high on power and delusions of being a hero. Who suspected, stalked and killed a kid because he was black. Added to that a local police department that lied and is trying to covered up the incident because he is one of "their own"

Obviously the Castle Doctrine will come in to play, just the same as any other excuse for any other case; temporary insanity, parents didn't love me, violent video games, crime of passion, etc. I'm not trying to play the role of gun defender but I see this as typical racism and institutionalized corruption. Whether it was a gun, knife, rope or just harassment and false imprisonment, this shit is happening DAILY in this country.

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#64

I've lived in the deep South for 11 years now.  I feel I've done enough time here to warrant making a joke about the need set it adrift into the ocean blue.

And besides, it should be obvious I wasn't being serious about states which need to be eliminated.  The map didn't even highlight Oklahoma or Kansas.

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#65

I wasn't singling anybody out, it's just a pet peeve of mine. When these things happen in New York or Chicago or L.A. it's seldom attributed to the regional residents. I'm just a little thin-skinned is all.

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#66
ADon't forget that this "stand your ground" law, heavily lobbied for by the NRA, has taken hold in several states following its passage in Florida. This is basically license to murder because the other witness is dead.
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#67

And the Castle Doctrine concerns being in one's home or car.  The Stand Your Ground law covers any situation in which a person feels they need to defend themselves.  Like chasing a teenage with a gun, apparently.

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#68

You ought to get down on your knees and ask God's forgiveness for what you said about blacks.  I am aware that is how some peoples feel about us, but not all blacks are that way.  We do not teach our children to hate white peoples as some of them teach their chirldren to hate blacks.  But I am a child of God and we have to be mindful of what we say and the way we carry ourselves.  That young boy did not desever to be shot and killed the way that it was done and the person that did it has a record of hate crimes and violence. You need to ask God for forgiveness for what you said.

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#69

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post

And the Castle Doctrine concerns being in one's home or car.  The Stand Your Ground law covers any situation in which a person feels they need to defend themselves.  Like chasing a teenage with a gun, apparently.



 No. The Castle Doctrine is the name given to a group of laws relating to self defense and the use of force. Stand Your Ground is a provision within. Florida is one of the few states to adopt the entire Doctrine.

The main statutes are the Castle Law, Immunity from Civil Lawsuit, and the "No Duty to Retreat" or "Stand your Ground" laws.

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#70


Quote:
Originally Posted by peewee64 View Post

You ought to get down on your knees and ask God's forgiveness for what you said about blacks.  I am aware that is how some peoples feel about us, but not all blacks are that way.  We do not teach our children to hate white peoples as some of them teach their chirldren to hate blacks.  But I am a child of God and we have to be mindful of what we say and the way we carry ourselves.  That young boy did not desever to be shot and killed the way that it was done and the person that did it has a record of hate crimes and violence. You need to ask God for forgiveness for what you said.



Ehhh?

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