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THE DARK KNIGHT RISES Post-release thread.....
A[quote name="Carnotaur3" url="/community/t/144220/the-dark-knight-rises-post-release-thread/5550#post_3932834"]

Completely disagree. TDK was about the necessity of Batman existence and TDKR is the necessity for Bruce Wayne's. It's clear that Bruce Wayne was holed up, and still living at the time because he one day suspected Batman would be needed again. It's at the end that he learns to value his life and his accomplishments, and look forward to a time where he can learn to exist in the world and interact with other.  To care for someone.  To love someone.  His journey through BB, TDK, and TDKR was filled with selfish intentions, signaled from a traumatic event he's never gotten over. To go through that pain and come out the other side by letting go of it means growth. 

Redundant, my ass. I think some fans hated it because they prefer to see their Batman stay exactly where he is - lost in the darkness.
[/quote]

See, I get and like what TDKR attemps to do, I just think it does it quite poorly. It contradicts itself with its opening (after Bruce has devoted himself to be Gotham's Dark Knight, he soon forgets it and holes up to his mansion..?) and doesn't fully use its strong thematic elements (Selina escaping her identity, Bane's mask). Talia has no reason to be in the story, aside from thin attempts to connect it to the first film. That said, I found the ending very good, though it would've benefitted from giving John Blake's character a bit more to do.
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A[quote name="DARKMITE8" url="/community/t/144220/the-dark-knight-rises-post-release-thread/5550#post_3932880"]Let's go TOGETHER
[/quote]

So many good posters no longer around. Sad
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The funny thing about The Dark Knight Rises is it wants to do the Old Man Bat story with Bruce being about 40. But in Batman v. Superman Batfleck is supposed to be mid to late 40s and appears to be in his prime.



Skyfall does the burnt-out icon making a comeback much better.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnotaur3 View Post
 

Completely disagree. TDK was about the necessity of Batman existence and TDKR is the necessity for Bruce Wayne's. It's clear that Bruce Wayne was holed up, and still living at the time because he one day suspected Batman would be needed again. It's at the end that he learns to value his life and his accomplishments, and look forward to a time where he can learn to exist in the world and interact with other.  To care for someone.  To love someone.  His journey through BB, TDK, and TDKR was filled with selfish intentions, signaled from a traumatic event he's never gotten over. To go through that pain and come out the other side by letting go of it means growth.



Redundant, my ass. I think some fans hated it because they prefer to see their Batman stay exactly where he is - lost in the darkness.



If only the movie actually earned that conclusion.  But it ends with Bruce Wayne as "dead" as Batman, and it's Batman who saved the city and got the statue.  He's not living as Bruce Wayne in that cafe in Florence or wherever.  And the love interest he ends up with is the one that was attracted entirely to the Bat, whereas those that he courted as Wayne are both dead after rejecting or betraying the man.



It's not that it's a bad conclusion for the character (and I actually respect that it is a conclusion, in a comic book story), but I don't think it fits well on the story that precedes it.

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ADown the rabbit hole...again...

It fits. Nolan's Batman tends to learn his lessons internally, not so much monolguing them out in a series of films that don't lack for monologues. It isn't just that he's old, but that he blindly compromised his ideals with the cover-up from the last film.

It's not a coincidence that he chooses Blake, a not rich kid, to take over for him should Gotham need it. I think what Batman's decision partly implies is that Batman should only be deployed in extraordinary circumstances (we can assume that the iteration of the LoS in TDKR is broken by the end of the film, terrorist organizations are nothing if not resilient) and not used to manipulate politics or the knowledge of the public.

The film doesn't dwell on it, but there is a pretty clear throughline running through the implementation of the Dent Act, the rise of amoral vulture capitalists like Mendelsohn's character (white collar criminals displacing mobsters) and the terrorist infrastructure created by Bane, Talia, and the LoS.

It stems from the cover-up and Bruce's own inattention while he was shut up in his little mausoleum, feeling sorry for himself. The fact that he dumps the pasts of both Bruce Wayne and Batman, shows that he recognized how utterly compromised those identities were for him and how they'd become emotionally toxic in their own separate ways.

So he leaves it to a working class hero...who will very likely be killed on his first night because he lacks training.*






*I kid. The movie is littered with some questionable plot points, but I don't care because I think Nolan is aware of that and decided that it was better to make an emotional point even if he had to bend logic into all sorts of odd shapes.

Last word. I promise. I just had that on my mind.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post

It stems from the cover-up and Bruce's own inattention while he was shut up in his little mausoleum, feeling sorry for himself. The fact that he dumps the pasts of both Bruce Wayne and Batman, shows that he recognized how utterly compromised those identities were for him and how they'd become emotionally toxic in their own separate ways.

So he leaves it to a working class hero...who will very likely be killed on his first night because he lacks training.*


That's one part that could've benefitted from a callback to BEGINS: "The training is nothing. The will IS EVERYTHING."

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post
 


If only the movie actually earned that conclusion.  But it ends with Bruce Wayne as "dead" as Batman, and it's Batman who saved the city and got the statue.  He's not living as Bruce Wayne in that cafe in Florence or wherever.  And the love interest he ends up with is the one that was attracted entirely to the Bat, whereas those that he courted as Wayne are both dead after rejecting or betraying the man.


A relationship that works comes in the form of two people who challenge each other's positions. She ain't attracted to Batman, try to divorce yourself from the depiction of the cartoons and comic books. When Selina Kyle hears Bane say "Bruce Wayne" after Batman gets caged up, her reaction isn't that she's just surprised to know who it is. It reflects her thoughts earlier when she made the extreme assumption that she would surely help the poor people of Gotham over Bruce Wayne while they were dancing. Those who he courted couldn't be with him. Rachel wouldn't attach herself to someone with bigger issues than she was willing to face and Miranda Tate *ahem* did NOT have his back. But Selina Kyle actually does have feelings, feelings so strong she was willing risk her own life and shed her beliefs to go help him at the end.



You're right, it's not the same Bruce Wayne at the cafe in Florence. He's a new man. And it doesn't matter to him that it's Batman that takes the credit. If it did, that would be EGO talking.



Quote:
The film doesn't dwell on it, but there is a pretty clear throughline running through the implementation of the Dent Act, the rise of amoral vulture capitalists like Mendelsohn's character (white collar criminals displacing mobsters) and the terrorist infrastructure created by Bane, Talia, and the LoS.


It also says something about our current political system. The DENT ACT isn't exactly inconceivable considering the kind law and justice the government is currently setting up in the USA where our own citizens can be branded a terrorist WITHOUT trial. Politicians got a hold of the situation after Batman and Gordon swept it under the rug, and so the end of TDK feels that way when under the scope of TDKR.  A problem nobody dealt with because they wouldn't consider defeat.  The truth just wasn't important enough, wasn't trusted enough.

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ATDKR is like the Matrix Reloaded, a bloated mess that when slowly unraveled, is actually fairly rewarding. The amount of detail to lines and attention required with knowledge of the previous 2 movies is almost staggering. So with that knowledge in hand, and it might take several hands to contain it all, the movie can be rewarding.

So after some time and distance:

"Last confirmed sighting of the Batman"
It felt more obvious that Bruce didn't hang up his cowl right away after the death of Dent. With camera disabling tech, and EMP toys, it seems like the next logical conclusion is Bruce could sneak around undetected. Also if the animated cartoons are considered canon (Gotham Knight), he has advanced cloaking mechanisms to mask himself completely.

Bruce Wayne, the money, and the behind shots
A lot is said the stock trade and its inaccuracy basically with Bruce losing him remaining money. The behind shots I remember are 2, one of a person grabbing Selina outside of the bar shootout. If you watch the scene again, you'll notice its John Blake grabbing her and pulling her to safety. The 2nd scene is right before Bane attacks the stock exchange, where it lingers on the back of a woman going into the exchange. Could this of been Miranda or Selina? While trading probably would of been wiped out, possibly this woman could of done the trade with Bruce Wayne's fingerprints before Bane attacked.

He eventually gets his money back after the fraud has been proven regardless.

Bruce Wayne, life after death
I wonder what the legal ramifications of bringing someone back from the dead are? It's been done before as in Batman Begins, and we had a string of pearls on the manifest the collection guys had at the end. So there was a cookie trail back to Bruce Wayne. Alfred repeatedly told Bruce he had a name to maintain, and here was the ability to do it. The ending of Rises paralleled TDK similar in the way it had dual meanings. With TDK you have system people deciding the fates of people they didn't trust because it wasn't all "part of the plan." TDKR shows Bruce supposedly happy in normal life, but he has in fact put a bounty on his supposed girlfriend Selina in the form of a necklace.

That and he has a bunch of dummy corps, the guy has money hidden around. He also made Alfred cry, what a dick.

Alfred, more than meets the eye
Alfred isn't your standard butler. With stories told in TDK, he has some type of experience working with criminals.

Bruce Wayne, the cane is not for pain, its a facade
Alfred was warning Bruce about him getting lost in the monster that is Batman. The film at the end shows Bruce with a knee brace able to get around. With his public persona of Bruce Wayne being a disguise for Batman, Bale took the differences of voice and demeanor so extreme that it couldn't be possibly to confuse the two as one. That probably even got worse over time with the death of Dent and Rachel. Not wanting to endanger people closer to him, he probably took things to such an extreme to be an invisible Batman, that he also ruined Bruce Wayne's image as well.

Oh snap it's late, getting sleepy, and I probably slowly went off the wall. I have one more delusion,

John Blake is Dick Grayson
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
 

The funny thing about The Dark Knight Rises is it wants to do the Old Man Bat story with Bruce being about 40. But in Batman v. Superman Batfleck is supposed to be mid to late 40s and appears to be in his prime.



Skyfall does the burnt-out icon making a comeback much better.



Daniel Craig: I'm a psychological wreck who can't shoot straight!



Albert Finney: As your oldest friend, perhaps in this target shooting scene I'll give you some advice to clear up this mental--



Daniel Craig: Nope, action climax's almost here, I'm a badass again. Cheap joke about how great I am at shooting AAAND moving on...

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AHe couldn't shoot straight because of the bullet fragments in his shoulder, nothing psychological.
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And Bond was just coming off a crazy post-death bender.  He was just a little rusty.



Besides it's not like the entirety of Skyfall wasn't him doing badass shit constantly up until the climax.

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I hate the fact that this thread won't die so much that I'm just going to post cat pictures in it from now on. *



* At least until I get bored **



** Which will probably be quite quickly.

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Oh, god.  Why did I come in here again?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by SAIRUS View Post

TDKR is like the Matrix Reloaded, a bloated mess that when slowly unraveled, is actually fairly rewarding. The amount of detail to lines and attention required with knowledge of the previous 2 movies is almost staggering. So with that knowledge in hand, and it might take several hands to contain it all, the movie can be rewarding.

So after some time and distance:

"Last confirmed sighting of the Batman"
It felt more obvious that Bruce didn't hang up his cowl right away after the death of Dent. With camera disabling tech, and EMP toys, it seems like the next logical conclusion is Bruce could sneak around undetected. Also if the animated cartoons are considered canon (Gotham Knight), he has advanced cloaking mechanisms to mask himself completely.

Bruce Wayne, the money, and the behind shots
A lot is said the stock trade and its inaccuracy basically with Bruce losing him remaining money. The behind shots I remember are 2, one of a person grabbing Selina outside of the bar shootout. If you watch the scene again, you'll notice its John Blake grabbing her and pulling her to safety. The 2nd scene is right before Bane attacks the stock exchange, where it lingers on the back of a woman going into the exchange. Could this of been Miranda or Selina? While trading probably would of been wiped out, possibly this woman could of done the trade with Bruce Wayne's fingerprints before Bane attacked.

He eventually gets his money back after the fraud has been proven regardless.

Bruce Wayne, life after death
I wonder what the legal ramifications of bringing someone back from the dead are? It's been done before as in Batman Begins, and we had a string of pearls on the manifest the collection guys had at the end. So there was a cookie trail back to Bruce Wayne. Alfred repeatedly told Bruce he had a name to maintain, and here was the ability to do it. The ending of Rises paralleled TDK similar in the way it had dual meanings. With TDK you have system people deciding the fates of people they didn't trust because it wasn't all "part of the plan." TDKR shows Bruce supposedly happy in normal life, but he has in fact put a bounty on his supposed girlfriend Selina in the form of a necklace.

That and he has a bunch of dummy corps, the guy has money hidden around. He also made Alfred cry, what a dick.

Alfred, more than meets the eye
Alfred isn't your standard butler. With stories told in TDK, he has some type of experience working with criminals.

Bruce Wayne, the cane is not for pain, its a facade
Alfred was warning Bruce about him getting lost in the monster that is Batman. The film at the end shows Bruce with a knee brace able to get around. With his public persona of Bruce Wayne being a disguise for Batman, Bale took the differences of voice and demeanor so extreme that it couldn't be possibly to confuse the two as one. That probably even got worse over time with the death of Dent and Rachel. Not wanting to endanger people closer to him, he probably took things to such an extreme to be an invisible Batman, that he also ruined Bruce Wayne's image as well.

Oh snap it's late, getting sleepy, and I probably slowly went off the wall. I have one more delusion,

John Blake is Dick Grayson


So what?  I'm not even disagreeing with any of this, I just don't see how it makes the movie any more interesting.

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AIt's interesting if you like the movie!
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A'Bruce Waaaaynne!?"
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AHUH????

WAAAAAT????
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Somebody get this hothead outta here!

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AI feel like some of you were more traumatized by this movie than the people in that Aurora Colorado theater.
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A"Strawberies are packed with fibre!"

Csn you imagine if that last shot of Alfred cut just before that ridiculous shot of Bruce. Just an ambiguous look from Caine then cut to JGL rising up?
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A[quote name="Bradito" url="/community/t/144220/the-dark-knight-rises-post-release-thread/5580#post_3940178"]I feel like some of you were more traumatized by this movie than the people in that Aurora Colorado theater.[/quote]
Traumatized by how much I LUUUV it..
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike's Pants View Post

"Strawberies are packed with fibre!"

Csn you imagine if that last shot of Alfred cut just before that ridiculous shot of Bruce. Just an ambiguous look from Caine then cut to JGL rising up?


I was imagining that before I even left the theater.  But coming straight off Inception it might've felt like Nolan repeating himself too directly.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSaxon View Post
 


Had a mini-coughing fit in Episode 2 when the "TIME TO GO MOE-BYLE" came out of nowhere.

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Okay, you can think this great thread took a turn for the worst because somebody bumped for discussion...



... how do you explain this latest emergence of cat videos as better alternative?

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ASome people just want to see the world purrn.
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This seems like a fitting place to make my final post before the boards switch over.



I still dig the movie. Nolan's version of Batman remains my preferred cinematic Bats, with the warehouse fight from BvS being the exception.



See y'all on the other side. Maybe.

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AYears down the line, on reflection it’s the superhero flick I enjoy the most. Visually, musically, thematically it hits so many notes I adore. Bane in particular is just so ridiculously entertaining.
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AFor all the shit Bane gets Marvel has had 39 movies to try to come up with more memorable villains and has only succeeded twice.

And one of those is cheating since he's in 27 of those movies and is pretty much secretly a good guy at heart.
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Aand to think! we have to thank the many who complained about his voice in the IMAX preview for his grand wonderful overpowering goofy voice!
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AIn gossamer's asses ... you hammy palm mission deny
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ANolan gave us two very iconic villains across three films. I can’t count Ra’s, he’s more like an anti-hero you feel for. That’s quite a feat!
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