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IRON MAN 3 Post-Release
#36
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlenomad View Post

Says a man named Mr. Smeg?


Sweet! Now we're ironically commenting on each other's internet userID's?

Anyway.  Avoiding spoilers.  I cannot wait to see this.  I really like the first, enjoy the second in spite of its flaws and love Black.  I am really jazzed for this summer, and I am ecstatic this is how it begins.

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#37

Been given permission to talk about it, finally.

I fucking loved it. Leagues, leagues better than the other two.

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#38

I'll wait until more people have seen it before chiming in too much, but just wanted to say it was nice to see them give Cheadle a little bit more this time round.  He was great fun, as always, and also had one of the funniest lines/deliveries in the whole film, too.

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#39

The Avengers was my favorite theatre experience last year. This movie doesn’t come close to that experience although it certainly tries pretty hard and, in some places, almost succeeds. The set pieces are all fantastic, growing in scope as the movie progresses, until we reach that truly fantastic climax where an army of Iron Men face off against an army of super soldiers. Robert Downey Jnr once again shows how Marvel could build an entire universe around him, and Don Cheadle is also great, creating a real chemistry with Downey Jnr that enables you to believe the two are truly friends. Although I didn’t find myself laughing as many times as in The Avengers, the scenes in which Black incorporates humor are largely successful with my favorite being War Machine/Iron Patriot’s inappropriately timed phone call and Stark’s declaration about his biography title.

I have one complaint, however, and it’s a pretty big one. Duke Fleed is going to hate this movie, as will anyone who has waited to see Iron Man finally encounter his arch nemesis. The comic book fans who are excited to see this confrontation are probably going to be upset at the revelation that The Mandarin doesn’t even exist in the Marvel Movie Universe. It’s like featuring The Joker in a Batman movie only for him to be revealed as a football mascot taking orders from Egghead. It’s a real shame too, as I like what Kingsley is doing with the character prior to this reveal.

Still, this isn’t enough to damage the movie for me which was still a largely satisfying experience and one which sets the bar fairly high for the rest of the year.

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#40

It's funny, I didn't like the battle at the end.  It felt too busy for want of a better term.  It was trying too hard to be big when it didn't need to be, an army of faceless Robots vs and Army of faceless super soldiers with Stark acting like he's been on the super soldier formula that gave us Captain America.  As far as Sir Ben Kingsley is concerned, what a waste of a bloody decent "villain" the worst part being the telegraphing of it, how many times must the trope be used it's just so fucking uninteresting.  Overall the film was a good one and I did enjoy it so I don't mean to sound negative but it did have some problems but it was definitely a Shane Black film.  I wonder how Iron Man will proceed from here and hope they get the casting right for whoever replaces RDJ.

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#41

MrSaxon, I do not think I am going to...Hate Iron Man 3.  However, I do not like how The Mandarin was...Reimagined.  UGH.  Fortunately there should be plenty of upside with, IM, and War Machine teaming up, just like in IM2!

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#42

Holy shit, Duke! I didn't expect you to come in here before watching the movie! Well, I hope you don't hate it despite the issue I mentioned earlier, especially as they've increased the amount of Iron Man/War Machine team-up time in this one!

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#43

Just saw it, and yes its the best of the three so far; performances are all solid, the action is great and those little funny character moments both the series and Shane Black are stellar at appear quite often; Black nails the action/drama/humor mixture a smart and charming action movie needs, and Marvel would be insane not to keep him under contract; hell, if there is justice in the world we will see Black back on original projects (I wouldnt mind a "The Gay Perry Case files" film series)

As for the "villain switcheroo", so to speak, its a nice surprise and kinda plays into the whole "why is he called Mandarin if he's not even asian" thing, but its still kind of a bother to see them throw away the whole The Ten Rings hints and allusions with this gamble; at least adding a scene that revealed Killian to have targeted Tony early on, or AIM being revealed as funding or even organizing terrorist cells in order to boost their military contract profits and resources would have helped keep that in continuity.

The post credits scenes was quite charming; hell, it might reveal Hulk's achilles's heel, so to say.

As for the Mandarin...well, who's to say he wont pop up in the future in true form? maybe inspiring a true villian to take the name as a form of revenge/irony.

Hell, if people can buy a bunch of superheroes fighting off an alien invasion of NY, why not some asian extremist armed with ancient alien technology in the form of rings? (the comic did a great spin were the rings were embedded in the Mandarin's spine, and gave him different powers while feeding of his Chi/bioelectrical energy).

Another benefit of bringing the Mandarin back as a real, asian villain?

RDJ  VS a huge alien biomechanical dragon? Ticket fucking sold. IMAX 3D showings sold out for months.

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#44

ryoken, It would not be a...Drag...On the proceedings, if Iron Man Faced...Fin Fang Foom, and sent him to his...Doom!  I agree with your Mandarin Concept!

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#45

For my money, this is the best of the Iron Man films. Hands down.

It's very witty. Very well-written, with an intricate plot that keeps on surprising you. I love all the details that Shane Black and Drew Pearce packed into the story. It has all these elements. It's an 80s Buddy Cop Movie, a big ticket James Bond flick, a Political Conspiracy thriller. ... There's even an 80s Spielberg kiddie fantasy element thrown into the mix. It has all those elements and manages to work on an extremely satisfying level.

It also has the best action of the three films. Just one great set piece after another. Very well executed with terrific effects.

When it opens in the US, you'll begin to hear comments about how "Iron Man barely appears in the movie" and complaints about The Mandarin's big reveal. But that's horseshit. I thought it was a great twist and Ben Kingsley was wonderful.

The main thing to remember is that this is meant to be, above all, an entertaining action film. In that sense, it excels. It's a great showcase for Robert Downey Jr, and one of the rare cases where the third film in a series winds up being the freshest and most exciting of the lot.

I loved it.

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#46

It's funny that none of the line readings from the trailer are in the movie. They use a completely different version of "You'll never see me coming", and don't use either "Today is the first day of what's left of your life" or "I'm going to offer a choice: Do you want an empty life or a meaningful death?"

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#47
AOf all the Marvel films, this is the one that most has the directors signature on it. Warmachine68 - I'm guessing that was the second draft.
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#48
AI.. I think I'll be a lone voice here. I wasn't that fussed.

The Mandarin twist sort of sums up the whole film; always racing to the next punch line. That's fine, the jokes land, but aside from the attack on the house the peril is quite minimal. Stark breezes through everything cracking wise.

The twist only disappoints because I was desperately anticipating a terrifying crazed Ben Kingsley performance and got a punchline instead. I'm not that bothered that they've written off the Mandarin more that we'll never see that weird creepy character from those trailers.

Honestly, this may be the least enthusiastic I've been after a Marvel Studios film.
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#49
ALOVED the film. None of my friends did, though.

I asked this in another thread here, but:
Does anyone here know why we get the Marvel films earlier here in Brazil than you guys do over there?? TDKR opened a couple weeks later here and we don't get Man of Steel for a whole month(the Confederations Cup is to blame for that too though).

Marvel has opened earlier here since Thor, if I'm not wrong.
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#50
AI thought it was ok, but goddamn the plotholes in this thing are fricking huge. It's a slight improvement on 2 but it's still behind the original for me.
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#51
A

Yeah, 'OK' is pretty much where I am with it.

[Spoiler Space I guess?]

I'm still not entirely clear on what Killian's motivation was. Was it just revenge for being ditched? Was he getting money for it? And the power of the Extremis soldiers felt really inconsistent. Some were dispatched quite easily, others were nigh on indestructable, Killian can breathe fire some how? And did anyone seriously think Pepper was really dead?

This is turning into an IMDB post so I'll stop there.


Suffice to say I was disappointed. I thought this would be slicker. The third act is really, really messy.
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#52
AI thought it was way better than the second one, which was just 2+ hours of aimless wanking about. I'd narrowly take it over the first as well, which I never quite got the big deal over.

Main pleasure of this for me was the cast, which is full of great character actors who are mostly put to good use. Pearce gets to play Killian as unkempt nerd, slick Starkish playboy and maniacal nutjob and has a blast the whole time, making the character more interesting than he probably should be. I was also on board with where they took The Mandarin just cos Kingsley is so entertaining.

I still think Cheadle is miscast though, I just don't buy Stark being best mates with this slightly dour guy who doesn't seem much fun to be around.

Action is alright. Two of the three main setpieces are solid, though I still don't particularly feel the peril - Stark seems as invincible outside of the suit as he is inside it most of the time, and whenever the suits are driving the action it switches to weightless video game mode in a way that reminds me of Raimi's Spider-Men.

I'm not familiar with Black's prior work but I'm not convinced by the talk of it being a pure Black movie. All Marvel movies look and feel pretty much the same and this is no exception. They let directors put their personal touches on things but they're still serving Marvel at the end of the day.

One thing that amused me: in the Star Trek post release thread, people who haven't seen the movie have been throwing massive shit fits about a certain plot device that, as it turns out, sounds almost identical to one that's used here. I'll be interested to see if they get as mad at this movie for it, or whether they'll do some mental gymnastics to hail it as a piece of Shane Black brilliance, while still dismissing the Star Trek one as the idiotic work of the most inept writing/directing team currently working.
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#53

This is going to be a divisive movie.

A friend of mine HATED IT. Primarily because of the big twist.

"Never has an arch villain been defiled in such a manner. The Mandarin is supposed to be a badass! Also... Too many jokes. After 1 and 2 this was ABYSMAL. .... If you want to change the story so much, then just create your own superhero and make him do and say whatever you want... bla de bla de bla..."

I don't read Iron Man comics. I never have. I never will. But I'm starting to wonder how this movie will play for the real comic book nerds when it opens in the US.

I'm starting to feel that a lot of people are going to be unable to look past it and walk out fuming.

Another friend of mine didn't like the fact that "he almost never wears the suit. the movie should just be called TONY STARK"

When I argued that the "message" of the movie is that he doesn't need the suit to BE Iron Man, his response was: "That's like having a Superman movie where he loses his powers and goes around the whole time with guns or something... saying: 'see? I don't need the powers. I'm still Superman!' it's stupid."

These arguments are giving me aneurisms. But I have a feeling people will be having very similar conversations in comic book stores over the next few weeks.

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#54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erix View Post

This is going to be a divisive movie.

A friend of mine HATED IT. Primarily because of the big twist.

"Never has an arch villain been defiled in such a manner. The Mandarin is supposed to be a badass! Also... Too many jokes....

The 'too many jokes' thing I get. The film is hilarious but at the expense of the drama (probably a your-mileage-may-vary thing).

The Mandarin switcheroo works in theory but turning it into a knee slapper just sucks all the tension out of the film. I like the idea of a manufactured terrorist, but it's like they just couldn't resist turning it into a gag. It's a funny scene and Kingsley is brilliant as Trevor but you can feel the threat just evaporate from the film afterwards. Then we're just left watching nameless soldiers fighting slightly different variations of the suit. And Firebreathing Guy Pearce*

*I must disclaim I was a little high watching the film and for a moment was convinced I was imagining Firebreathing Guy Pearce, then Don Cheadle confirmed Fire Breathing Guy Pearce and now I'm still not sure how I feel about Fire Breathing Guy Pearce

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#55

Out of interest Erix, aneurism aside, did you enjoy it?

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#56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike's Pants View Post

Out of interest Erix, aneurism aside, did you enjoy it?

Oh yeah...

My review is posted on page 1 of this thread. I liked it a lot.

I don't care about comic book mythology or any of that. I just wanted an entertaining action film. That's what this is.

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#57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike's Pants View Post

Yeah, 'OK' is pretty much where I am with it.

[Spoiler Space I guess?]

I'm still not entirely clear on what Killian's motivation was. Was it just revenge for being ditched? Was he getting money for it? And the power of the Extremis soldiers felt really inconsistent. Some were dispatched quite easily, others were nigh on indestructible, Killian can breathe fire some how? And did anyone seriously think Pepper was really dead?

This is turning into an IMDB post so I'll stop there.

This bothered me as well, so what the hell, I'll take this bullet:

The problem is that the film's third act and the general use of EXTREMIS just went for the superficial and imagery of the comic book version; Warren Ellis  essentially realized that a trans-humanist technology was the polar opposite  of Iron Man and thus a great theme for a villain; in the comic book, EXTREMIS is essentially a biotechnological virus that hacks the human body's operating system; stronger bone density, skin/dermal regeneration and muscle tension, bio electricity and even the human body's capacity for generating heat (Killian breathing fire is essentially him expelling excess methane from his body, just not from the usual orifice) were pretty much amped up by EXTREMIS, the downside being that the human body needed massive amounts of energy to cope with the new abilities and it needed to vent the excessive heat,  therefore burning down the body if EXTREMIS wasn't properly attuned; the soldiers who blew up were essentially the ones whose body couldnt manage to cope with their new heat generation abilities; also, the brain and heart were the key components of the EXTREMIS enhancements, so one of those is taken out and the subject cant regenerate from that. (writer Matt Fraction even came up with a villain who used an improved Extremis virus, and relied on eating an artificial high calorie nanopaste to fuel its abilities; the Mandarin later used his mastery of Chi and alien technology to further correct the virus).

The movie just focus on moving from set piece and gag scene to set piece and gag scene, and leaves plot holes that some exposition scenes could had fixed (I'm assuming that the movie either cut or never bothered with such scenes, riding on the whole "After the events of Avengers we can strecth logic quite a  bit");  Hell, Killian's motivations and plans could have been further explained, since he pretty much is revealed to have been working behind the scenes SINCE THE FIRST FILM; it was him who had a Ten Rings cell kidnap Stark and work with Stane in the first film; his organization financed Whiplash's original attempt on Stark's life and so on; hell, the guy essentially created AIM and worked behind the scenes to manipulate supply and demand of new technologies, all under Stark's nose, and the film barely alludes to this in a couple lines and the fact that the guy was covered in dragon tattoos (nice reference to Fing Fang Foom, though).

I still think the movie is fine as a superhero and action film, but it feels like all plot holes and faults are just out of a lack of polish.

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#58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike's Pants View Post

The 'too many jokes' thing I get. The film is hilarious but at the expense of the drama (probably a your-mileage-may-vary thing).

The Mandarin switcheroo works in theory but turning it into a knee slapper just sucks all the tension out of the film. I like the idea of a manufactured terrorist, but it's like they just couldn't resist turning it into a gag. It's a funny scene and Kingsley is brilliant as Trevor but you can feel the threat just evaporate from the film afterwards. Then we're just left watching nameless soldiers fighting slightly different variations of the suit. And Firebreathing Guy Pearce*

*I must disclaim I was a little high watching the film and for a moment was convinced I was imagining Firebreathing Guy Pearce, then Don Cheadle confirmed Fire Breathing Guy Pearce and now I'm still not sure how I feel about Fire Breathing Guy Pearce

Like I said above, technically, a human being could do that based on our natural ability to generate methane and expel it; just be glad he didnt do it the usual, drunken way

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#59

Mike's Pants, Maybe Guy Pierce will be revealed to be...Fin Fang Foom!

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#60

This thing is getting eviscerated on imdb...not that I think imdb is the most solid source for reviews, but from what I'm reading it sounds like TDKR of the trilogy...an absolute mess.

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#61

It wasn't that bad. I liked it. Though its "feel" is different from the other Marvel films though.

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#62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post

This thing is getting eviscerated on imdb...not that I think imdb is the most solid source for reviews, but from what I'm reading it sounds like TDKR of the trilogy...an absolute mess.

I think it's entirely possible that real die hard fans of the comics will hate this film with a passion, yes.

But it is not a mess. Artistically speaking, it's the most solid film in the trilogy.

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#63

Well is it true that:

There are plot holes galore
Tony is barely in the suit
The armor could withstand Thor and aliens in Avengers, but here it fails miserably against the extremis soldiers and is constantly falling apart like legos
That Tony tells Rhodey that his suits are designed for him, but places them on Pepper and Aldrich
The Ben Kingsley/Mandarin is really some hippy with a drinking problem living in a playboy like mansion
That Maya's story is lame, that she spent a decade helping Mandarin but a couple of lines from Tony sets her straight
That Tony has panic attacks but that plot gets completely dropped 3/4 of the way through
That no one from the Avengers came to lend a hand even though Tony was getting his ass kicked and the President's life was at stake
That Tony's chest device is suddenly magically able to be removed (why didn't he do it in the last two films?)
That it was a showreel for RDJ... a Tony Stark movie masquerading as an Iron Man movie

Cause all that sounds like a mess.

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#64

Well, you could actually see the movie itself instead of trusting the opinions of IMDB posters.

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#65

Yup. All correct.

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#66

I'll see it, I'm just being inquisitive...

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#67

I thought it was a hot mess. It was exciting, the stakes were high, and it was quite funny, but it also felt a bit muddled and punch-drunk. It seemed somehow that everything had been shot in a medium or close-up shot and then scrambled together in the editing room. Overall, though, I was entertained.

Some spoilery thoughts...

- Trevor was the best thing in the movie. I'd like to see a spin-off movie about Trevor.

- However I understand the disappointment people have felt with the Mandarin twist. The facade of the Mandarin was more threatening and effective than most other villains in superhero movies, and definitely more so than Guy Pearce's character, so it was a shame to have him popped halfway through the film.
Maybe if Trevor had been introduced as the Mandarin's slacker twin brother we could have had the best of both worlds.....

- The physics of the movie often reminded me of the Indy Nuke the Fridge moment, as in there is no way a human being would be standing up after that.

- In terms of set-pieces, I thought the destruction of Chez Stark was jaw-dropping and the Air Force One mid-air rescue was pretty amazing. The CGI was pretty convincing.

- The closing titles by Kyle Cooper were fantastic, as was the theme playing over the top. I liked the 60's Bond-ish vibe it was going for, right down to the 'Tony Stark Will Return' line at the end. Maybe Iron Man is now America's James Bond.

- The whole Shane Black directing thing made me think that Val Kilmer needs to get in shape and get into the next Iron Man movie.

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#68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockley View Post

- The whole Shane Black directing thing made me think that Val Kilmer needs to get in shape and get into the next Iron Man movie.

YYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.

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#69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post

This thing is getting eviscerated on imdb...not that I think imdb is the most solid source for reviews, but from what I'm reading it sounds like TDKR of the trilogy...an absolute mess.

the difference is, it's wildly entertaining and enjoyable as fuck.

Also, not knowing anything Iron Man comic wise (except a bit of the Devil in the bottle stuff) I googled Mandarin and Fin Fang Foom.


Personally I'm really glad we got what we got in the movie.

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#70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Bain View Post

the difference is, it's wildly entertaining and enjoyable as fuck.

So is Transformers and The Fast and the Furious...I wouldn't call them good movies though.  I'm all for entertaining films, I just wish people would stop giving them 5 star reviews (93% on rottentomatoes seems odd for a movie with that many story problems).  Not offense to anyone who enjoyed it, it's just an annoying trend in Hollywood filmmaking.

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