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Does Jenny McCarthy deserve this much hate?
(03-22-2019, 12:47 AM)farsight Wrote: I have heard no rational reason to avoid being vaccinated against common illnesses.

I think that's because no one has been arguing for avoiding vaccination against common illnesses.  We're just taken a little aback by how hard you come down against what most of us think of as a crude, DIY but effective form of vaccination.
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(03-22-2019, 12:56 AM)schwartz Wrote:
(03-22-2019, 12:47 AM)farsight Wrote: I have heard no rational reason to avoid being vaccinated against common illnesses.

I think that's because no one has been arguing for avoiding vaccination against common illnesses.  We're just taken a little aback by how hard you come down against what most of us think of as a crude, DIY but effective form of vaccination.

Inflicting the illness on them is not vaccinating them; it's precisely the opposite.

Arguing that instead of getting a vaccination to immunize them, a child should instead be made ill -is- arguing against vaccination.

That's why I'm coming down hard; because the rationale being described here is not rational.

It is being suggested that immunization via illness is as good as immunization via vaccination. If that were true, we should be throwing Flu Parties each year instead of getting shots. We should have Measles Parties and Small Pox Parties. Just inflict every illness on every child, and let the strongest survive. 

People have a 99.9900% chance of surviving measles, a 99.9984% chance of surviving chicken pox, and a 99.9990% chance of surviving the flu. The chicken pox is more deadly than most recent flus.

I mentioned the colonial method of cutting sores from a dying man and putting them under people's skin to attempt to vaccinate them. I'm sure it sounds barbaric... but it's actually a less reckless and crude form of immunization than simply exposing people until they get sick. At least back then, they just lacked the skill to do any better. Today, we have no such excuse.
Gamertag: Tweakee
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If I have kids, yeah, vaccination all the way.  I wasn't intentionally exposed to it, mainly because the vaccine wasn't available in the US until I was in high school, but I did go to school, so I got it.  It was itchy as fuck, and I can't stand calamine lotion to this day, but I got to stay home from school, and got a bunch of Tin Tin comics out of it.
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(03-22-2019, 04:42 AM)farsight Wrote: That's why I'm coming down hard; because the rationale being described here is not rational.

It is being suggested that immunization via illness is as good as immunization via vaccination. If that were true, we should be throwing Flu Parties each year instead of getting shots. We should have Measles Parties and Small Pox Parties. Just inflict every illness on every child, and let the strongest survive. 

People have a 99.9900% chance of surviving measles, a 99.9984% chance of surviving chicken pox, and a 99.9990% chance of surviving the flu. The chicken pox is more deadly than most recent flus.

YAAAAS!  Darwinism!  Only the strong shall live on!!!

My mother (the aforementioned pediatric nurse with 30+ years in hospital settings) instilled in me that, for largely non-lethal, common illnesses, a natural immunity is "better" than a manufactured one.  Keeping in mind, she retired in 2000, just a few short years after the chickenpox vaccine was introduced to the world, and after I was already an adult of 25 (the adult part being debatable).  The timeframe in which she spent her professional career certainly colored her opinions.  She'd never have suggested we not get a rubella, measles, polio, etc. vaccine.  But by her logic, she'd also not expect us get a flu or chickenpox vaccine... and as a an adult, I never have.

Also, just a few minutes of minor googling netted me the following excerpted form a relatively recent study commissioned by the State of Michigan:

It is true that natural infection almost always causes better immunity than vaccines. Because after a single natural infection, you often get immunity (like with measles or chickenpox) whereas you generally need 2 or more doses of a vaccine to be protected.


Now, in fairness to your point of view, the remainder of the study goes into a lot of detail regarding why, despite this, it is still always preferable to get vaccinated rather than develop a natural immunity, to, for example, combat the ancillary dangers of having chickenpox potentially leading to being susceptible to far more severe illness, etc.

[shrug] 

Cull the herd!



I feel like you're one of those folks who obsessively insists that their kids constantly use Purell until their little hands bleed.  Also, I'm mostly just having fun here, don't take it personally.
If you're happy, you're not paying attention.

Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny: 
Glad that you guys worked that out amongst yourselves.

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There is a theory that vaccinations and Purell culture lead to the prevalence of peanut allergies.

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My theory is that peanut allergies are what actually killed the dinosaurs.
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Legumes didn't evolve until just after the Cretaceous.

Beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact.
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The more pertinent question; why do they sell you a bag of tasty peanuts at a Hudson News, only to announce on the flight that peanuts aren't allowed due to travelers with allergies.
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(03-22-2019, 03:33 PM)turingmachine75 Wrote: Legumes didn't evolve until just after the Cretaceous.

Beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact.

I'm going off alternative facts, tho.
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(03-22-2019, 02:23 PM)Neil Spurn Wrote: My mother (the aforementioned pediatric nurse with 30+ years in hospital settings) instilled in me that, for largely non-lethal, common illnesses, a natural immunity is "better" than a manufactured one.  Keeping in mind, she retired in 2000, just a few short years after the chickenpox vaccine was introduced to the world, and after I was already an adult of 25 (the adult part being debatable).  The timeframe in which she spent her professional career certainly colored her opinions.  She'd never have suggested we not get a rubella, measles, polio, etc. vaccine.  But by her logic, she'd also not expect us get a flu or chickenpox vaccine... and as a an adult, I never have.

Also, just a few minutes of minor googling netted me the following excerpted form a relatively recent study commissioned by the State of Michigan:

It is true that natural infection almost always causes better immunity than vaccines. Because after a single natural infection, you often get immunity (like with measles or chickenpox) whereas you generally need 2 or more doses of a vaccine to be protected.


Now, in fairness to your point of view, the remainder of the study goes into a lot of detail regarding why, despite this, it is still always preferable to get vaccinated rather than develop a natural immunity, to, for example, combat the ancillary dangers of having chickenpox potentially leading to being susceptible to far more severe illness, etc.

[shrug] 

Cull the herd!



I feel like you're one of those folks who obsessively insists that their kids constantly use Purell until their little hands bleed.  Also, I'm mostly just having fun here, don't take it personally.

I get that people's natural biases impact their views. But when presented with science and reason that counter my preconception, I try to adapt. I would hope that I (and the CDC) could have convinced your mother.

Note that they do a booster for the chicken pox vaccine - I'd take 2 shots over being sick as well.

So, do you think it makes logical sense to not get a flu shot?

On one side you have: Maybe save a few bucks and a few minutes of your day, maybe you won't get sick.

On the other side: Free under most insurance, has a high likelihood of preventing an illness that will cost you days of feeling terrible, and in rare instances can kill you. Also, helps prevent the people around you from getting sick as well.

Personally, I don't have kids, and I'm probably pretty average when it comes to keeping things clean. I just embrace science. Not kinda-sorta believe in the skills and policies based on hundreds of years of experimentation, deduction and review; but fully buy in. For me it comes down to a simple logical argument:

Not getting sick is better than getting sick.
Immunization through vaccines means not getting sick.
Immunization through getting sick means getting sick.
Therefore, immunization through vaccines is better than immunization through getting sick.

I don't see the flaw in the argument, so it makes me a little crazy to hear people who seem to be in agreement with it then go, "But in this case, nah, whatever, let's go with faith/fate over science/action. I'll take being miserable for a week for no reason, and throw in a small chance of death on the side!"
Gamertag: Tweakee
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How the anti-vaccination movement crept into mainstream, GOP politics:

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/05/2...am-1344955

Quote:Among some of these officials, that libertarian demand for medical freedom has displaced the traditional GOP view that it’s a civic responsibility to immunize your kids to prevent the spread of disease. As more politicians take an anti-mandate stand, some end up adopting bogus theories about the supposed harms of vaccination — threatening to roll back one of public health’s great achievements.

In Kentucky, Gov. Matt Bevin said vaccine mandates were un-American. In Oregon, the state party used vaccine mandates to bash Democrats as violating parental rights. And in the California Senate, all 10 Republicans last Wednesday opposed a measure aimed at stopping bogus medical exemptions from vaccination.

President Donald Trump gave measles vaccination a nine-second endorsement on the White House lawn recently. “They gotta get their shots,” he told a press scrum on April 27. In a speech at the World Health Assembly last week, HHS Secretary Alex Azar decried misinformation from “conspiracy groups” that “confuse well-meaning parents.”

Azar and other top health officials, at the CDC and elsewhere, have advocated consistently for vaccination. But Trump himself has shown a disdain for scientific and government expertise, and for years — including during his campaign — he backed a debunked claim that childhood shots cause autism.

The arguments of the skeptics — that vaccine-preventable diseases like measles are God’s will, a natural process, or even a way of strengthening a child’s immune system, that the government and a rapacious pharmaceutical industry are joined in an insidious cover-up of the dangers of vaccines — are varied, and cut across political and geographic spectra, from ultra-liberal bastions of California to the religious conservatism of the South.

The GOP tilt is more pronounced among state lawmakers than among federal ones; many prominent Republicans in Congress including most of the 16 GOP doctors have endorsed vaccines. The most visible and voluble exception is Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.), an ophthalmologist who says his own kids were vaccinated but the decision should be left to the parents, not the government.

But in states where legislators have advanced serious efforts to tighten restrictions, such as Maine, Washington, Colorado and Oregon, nearly all of the opponents are Republicans who’ve taken a medical freedom stance.

“The more they dig into it being about freedom, the more susceptible they become to the theories,” said Dave Gorski, a Michigan physician who has tracked the anti-vaccine movement for two decades. “Appeals to freedom are like the gateway drug to pseudoscience.”
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I do believe that so much of the problem, like a lot of things, come from a sympathetic place: People do not trust the pharmaceutical industry. And often for good reason. The fact that health care, medication, and treatment can be so fucking expensive and people generally believe that corporations would rather treat disease then outright cure them for profit.  It's a perfect storm of bullshit and another reason why the privatization of the health industry is hurting people.
"Why did she do it?"
"Why are you the fucking Police?"

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I think people are just idiots and will believe anything but the truth.
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Yeah, my mom runs a daycare, so I see these kinds of people a LOT. They seem perfectly normal and reasonably intelligent... except that rather than listen to the advice of a woman who has been caring for kids for 40 years, they will emphatically parrot and defend the latest thing they read on Facebook.

It's a combination of being ignorant, gullible, and a control freak. They don't understand science, don't have critical thinking skills, and think if they can micromanage every minuscule aspect of their child's life that nothing bad could ever happen to them.

Almond milk! No gluten! All organic! No GMO! If there's a health-related idea based on "people say" rather than science, they'll be all over it, because it makes them feel smart and in control. Even though their kids tend to be shorter, thinner and more pale.
Gamertag: Tweakee
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We homeschooled my son until High School and some of our friends (and relatives) automatically assumed we didn't get him vaccinated because he was homeschooled. To which we both responded, "Are you nuts? Of course he's vaccinated." There was one mom in the group of homeschool moms that was the epitome of the "crazy homeschool mom" and she eventually moved away because people stopped inviting her and her kids to birthday parties, etc.

But it shows that it doesn't matter if it's secular or non-secular with the homeschooling, there are nuts in both. Our group was secular, and very science-based. We had a few people drift in every now and then but if they were looking for a religious-based homeschool group they pretty quickly moved back out again.
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Jessica Biel comes out as an anti-vax activist, joining RFK Jr. to lobby against the California vaccination bill:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/jessica-bi...itter_page

Quote:Tuesday, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., an environmental activist whose recent work has focused increasingly on baseless allegations that vaccines are unsafe and can injure a statistically miniscule population of “medically fragile” children, appeared at the California State Assembly beside an unlikely scene partner: actress Jessica Biel. In a series of Instagram posts, first reported in Jezebel by Anna Merlan, the two posed with activists, legislators, and miscellaneous bureaucratic architecture. In the caption, Kennedy called Biel “courageous.” 

The duo had come to lobby against SB 276, a California state bill that would limit medical exemptions from vaccinations without approval from a state public health officer. The bill has been decried by anti-vaxx advocates like Kennedy and vaguely critiqued by current Governor Gavin Newsom, over official estimations that it would reduce medical exemptions by nearly 40%. 
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These are some truly stupid people.
Originally Posted by ImmortanNick 

Saw Batman v Superman.
Now I know what it's like to see Nickelback in concert.

That's my review.
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I have nothing but contempt for people who have the time and money to educate themselves, yet continue to live in a bubble of narcissistic ignorance.

As politics keeps proving, there's nothing more dangerous than the dumb person who thinks they're smart.
Gamertag: Tweakee
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A Democratic megadonor is, um, sorry about funding an anti-vax group; blames his estranged wife for the involvement:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/dem-megado...nvolvement

Quote:A Democratic mega donor has pulled the plug on an anti-vaccine group founded and funded by his family, telling the Daily Beast that he regrets his involvement.

Real estate developer Albert Dwoskin said that he cut funding from the Children's Medical Safety Research Institute long before the current measles outbreak heightened interest in vaccination policy.  The group closed at the end of 2018 after he and his wife, Claire, began divorce proceedings. 

CMSRI had been known for circulating anti-vaxx misinformation including debunked connections between autism and vaccines. The organization, which was founded by Claire Dwoskin, was largely funded by the family’s foundation which spent hundreds of thousands of dollars supporting its mission of conducting “research on a range of issues from the toxic potential of various vaccine ingredients to the expression of human diseases.” 

But that, Albert Dwoskin said, has come to an end. 

“After seeing a great deal of evidence, I have concluded that concerns about the safety of vaccination are unfounded,” he said in a statement to The Daily Beast. “The best way to protect children is to make sure they have all their vaccinations as recommended by scientists, doctors and other healthcare professionals.”

“The CMSRI, founded by my estranged wife, has been closed. I regret my participation in the CMSRI’s work and disagree with her views on the dangers of vaccination,” he added. “My foundation no longer supports work on this issue.”

A spokesperson for Claire Dwoskin confirmed the non-profit had closed, but disputed her estranged husband’s assertion that she was the sole driver of the issue. 

“Divorce has a way of rewriting history,” said Kellie Boyle, Dwoskin’s spokesperson. “Al was always supportive, it was a joint passion and interest. He’s a data driven business man, that was the basis of his funding vaccine research.” 

While CMSRI was shuttered last year, the group’s Twitter feed and Facebook page were active as of mid-May, retweeting articles and posts with misleading and incorrect information about vaccines. 

The family has also been a prolific political donor as well, giving to several top ranking Democrats and Democratic committees and regularly hosting the who’s who the party’s political elite for fundraisers at their McLean, Virginia estate. 
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This is... a read.

https://jezebel.com/everything-i-learned...1834992879

Quote:I encountered many of the same fringe characters and claims I’ve seen at other conspiratorially-inclined conferences around the country.

These include Andrew Wakefield, the one-time gastroenterologist who was the lead author on a now-retracted study suggesting a link between the MMR vaccine and autism. Wakefield’s license to practice has been revoked and his name is mud in mainstream medicine, but he’s a yearly speaker at AutismOne. Mark Geier was there too, another former doctor whose license to practice was suspended or revoked in every state where he’d been certified after he and his son David—who is not a doctor— began treating children with autism with Lupron, a drug used for chemical castration in sex offenders. Kerri Rivera, a woman who infamously promoted the claim that autism-causing parasites can be defeated using an industrial bleach product called “Miracle Mineral Solution,” or MMS, stayed away this year; since 2015, following an investigation by the state attorney general, she has agreed not to promote MMS in Illinois. One person, the osteopathic physician and anti-vaccine celebrity speaker Sherri Tenpenny, delivered a speech I’d heard almost word for word years before, while floating through Mexico on a cruise for conspiracy theorists.

But Kennedy went a step further too, arguing that vaccines are merely the first step in the pharmaceutical industry’s lifelong grip on the lives and health of children.

“The industry makes $550 million a year selling EpiPens, Adderall, albuterol, diabetes medication, anti-seizure—80 percent of the profits come from chronic diseases,” he said. “And you’ll find all those diseases listed where?”

“Vaccine inserts!” the crowd roared back in unison. (The anti-vaccine movement frequently misinterprets the package inserts on vaccines and other drugs as an admission that those drugs inevitably cause adverse reactions and serious diseases.)

Kennedy nodded back at them. “There’s a good argument,” he added, “that every kid is injured.”

Within this framework, the presence of QAnon celebrities who spoke on a panel moderated by Candyce Estave, AutismOne’s director of online communications, was both bizarre and unsurprising.

Anti-Vaxxers are a cult. Maybe the most dangerous one we've ever seen.
Gamertag: Tweakee
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I have a headache:

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/1...ts-1500976

Quote:A chorus of mostly white women sang the gospel song “We Shall Overcome” in the California State Capitol, an anthem of the civil rights movement. Mothers rallied outside the governor's office and marched through Capitol corridors chanting “No segregation, no discrimination, yes on education for all!" Some wore T-shirts that read “Freedom Keepers."

But this wasn't about racial equality. In the nation's most diverse state, protesters opposed to childhood vaccine mandates — many from affluent coastal areas — had co-opted the civil rights mantle from the 1960s, insisting that their plight is comparable to what African Americans have suffered from segregationist policies.

The approach reflected the level of desperation among families staunchly opposed to vaccinating their children — a desperation that peaked Friday night when an activist threw a menstrual cup with what appeared to be blood at several state senators during floor session.

But the civil rights claim shocked lawmakers, especially those representing minority communities that have suffered generations of racism and economic injustice. Assemblywoman Sydney Kamlager-Dove (D-Los Angeles) called it "borderline racist" and said vaccine protesters need to revisit their history books.

And:

Quote:Gov. Gavin Newsom gave the anti-vaccine movement a brief window of hope in the penultimate week of legislative session when he demanded late amendments to the main medical exemption crackdown bill, Senate Bill 276. But the governor ultimately signed two measures to implement the law, adding fuel to the anger of the anti-vaccine movement. Protests continued for four days after Newsom signed the bills, with rhetoric growing ever more extreme.

Activists had earlier rolled out a sign during bill hearings that said “Welcome to Calabama, y’all” — a reference comparing Newsom, a liberal Democrat, to the late Alabama Gov. George Wallace, who was infamous for his defiance of racial desegregation. After the bills were approved, some held signs stating, "Welcome to Nazifornia," complete with the Nazi symbol.
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When are these assholes all going to croak from the mumps?
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They love this stuff lately.

Here's an Anti-vaxxer Nuremburg speech apropriating Jewish oppression, hilariously enough.



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"We, like all oppressed peoples before us, will fight to the death for our right to die from easily preventable diseases!"

"YEAH!"

"And to take people with compromised immune systems with us!"

"YEAH!"

"And to be the stupidest people in human history!"

"YEAH! Wait, who said that?"
Gamertag: Tweakee
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California's first anti-vaccination billboard is up:

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/an...n-n1064981

Quote:Activists planning to line California roadways with anti-vaccination billboards full of misinformation are paying for them through Facebook fundraisers, despite a platform-wide crackdown on such campaigns.

According to organizers, the billboards will feature the faces of two children whose parents claim were killed by vaccines, though the claims are contrary to medical evidence. Catelin Clobes, the mother of one of the pictured children, raised $16,304 for the campaign through 491 Facebook users and says the funds have paid for billboards in Modesto, Sacramento and Merced, the first of which is set to go up this month.

The billboards will include the website address for the Informed Consent Action Network, the nation’s best-funded anti-vaccination group. Del Bigtree, the former daytime television producer who leads the group, told NBC News he was unaware of the campaign.

Clobes’ fundraiser is one of dozens on Facebook that have raised money recently for anti-vaccination campaigns and nonprofits, despite the company’s announcement in April of a restriction on vaccine misinformation fundraising. At least $27,000 has been raised on Facebook in the last six months for such efforts.

   
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Imagine the good these people could do if they weren't so fucking stupid.
Gamertag: Tweakee
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Bill Maher had Dr. Jay Gordon on to pretty much defend him and wonder aloud if vaccines really do cause autism:

https://www.wonkette.com/bill-maher-now-...-after-all

Quote:Over the last decade or so, there have been multiple breakouts of measles and other formerly near-eradicated illnesses across the United States and elsewhere, all because a bunch of stupid people think those vaccines cause autism. Most of this really started when Jenny McCarthy of MTV's Singled Out fame, decided that her son's autism was caused by a vaccine. This was after, of course, she ran an entire website for few years about how he was a "crystal child" (which is like an indigo child, but equally not a real thing). 

Last night, Bill Maher brought on Dr. Jay Gordon, the very doctor that hepped McCarthy to the whole "vaccines cause autism" thing, and had a chat with him. Was it a chat in which any of Gordon's views were challenged? It was not! In fact, Maher was far more dismissive of those who call the doctor "anti-vaxx" or "crazy," because he does give vaccines to people and has even been vaccinated himself, so there. 

The "interview" involved Maher talking and defending Gordon a lot more than it involved Gordon talking. He wanted to know if after he was interviewed on other shows if the people he was being interviewed by waited until the interview was over and then suggested to him that they secretly agreed with him and said "But you can't say that on television!" And Gordon agreed that yes, sometimes that happens, but you can't say it on television. They both agreed vehemently that he would never be allowed to say any of these things on television, while... on a television show saying those things. 

Maher then said:

"You know, to call you this crazy person, really, what you're just saying is slower, maybe less numbers, and also take into account individuals. People are different. Family history, stuff like that. I don't think this is crazy. The autism issue, they certainly have studied it a million times…and yet, there's all these parents who say, I had a normal child, got the vaccine…this story keeps coming up. It seems to be more realistic to me, if we're just going to be realistic about it " 

This, of course, sounds very reasonable until you remember that vaccines do not cause autism and correlation is not causation. 
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I've defended Maher before, but he has always been a complete dipshit when it comes to anything related to medicine.

This is a new low, however. I think I'm done with him, with an exception for whatever huge celebration he does when Pumpkins is gone. Plenty of other places to get political humor.
Gamertag: Tweakee
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“Crystal child?”  I guess the thread title has been answered.
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Anti-vaxxers are moving the fight offline: crashing media-covered events, harassing doctors and private citizens. 

One group stood with signs outside a pediatrician's office, accosting parents with infants in their arms.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/kids-heal...d-n1096461

Quote:In October, Dr. Eve Krief watched from the window of her Long Island, New York, pediatrics practice, as around 20 women gathered on the lawn.

Armed with signs and banners with messages like, “We spread truth not disease,” the women — a group of anti-vaccine activists from New York and California — had come to protest Krief over her recent support for the 2019 state law that removed religious exemptions for vaccines.

Some of the protesters sat with signs, while others stuck anti-vaccine propaganda under car windshield wipers in the parking lot. Several approached parents entering the building with their infants, asking, "Are you vaccinating your baby?"

Krief had experience with these particular women. She recognized the group's leader, a local mother who had followed her to her car after a community meeting about proposed vaccine legislation a few weeks earlier. Krief said the bill's passage led to more intense protest from people who had been using the religious exemption to mask their personal preference not to vaccinate. They had also infiltrated her Yelp and Health Grades accounts, posting negative reviews, although they weren't patients at her practice.

But the in-person protests and the interaction with patients was another level.

"It's unsettling," Krief said, adding that her office is beefing up security measures in response.

For the anti-vaccination organizers, Krief’s unease was an indicator of their success.

“Needless to say,” one wrote on her Facebook page, “we rattled her cage just a bit yesterday with our presence.”

Opposition to immunizations was once largely limited to online bullying, but now opponents are increasingly taking their harassment tactics into the real world: aggressively following legislators and doctors and, in some cases, using physical violence.

But as opposition to vaccination has risen in recent years, so have cases of measles. Major outbreaks occurred in California and New York have spurred lawmakers in those states to strengthen vaccine mandates for school children. Reaction from anti-vaccine groups was swift and violent.

Online conspiracy theorist Austin Bennett livestreamed himself physically shoving the author of California's law, state Sen. Dr. Richard Pan. Bennett was later charged with a misdemeanor. The next month, Rebecca Dalelio, a participant at a protest at the California state Capitol, was charged with assault and vandalism when police say she threw a menstrual cup full of blood on lawmakers in the gallery.

Pan, who is also a pediatrician, suspects he was Dalelio's target.

"Everyone around me was hit" when the blood splattered on the legislative floor, he said.

Pan said anti-vaccine groups have stalked him at conferences, speaking engagements, even the March for Science in Washington.
As legislators, "we deal with all sorts of contentious issues — guns, abortions, lots of issues people are very passionate about," Pan said. "But the degree to which the anti-vaccine extremists takes this is in excess of any other group."

The main target of the anti-vaccine community is the MMR vaccine, which protects against measles, mumps and rubella. False links between the vaccine and a variety of conditions, including autism and sudden infant death syndrome, have been widely circulated on social media. These alleged links have been fully debunked.

On Thursday, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported that overall, there's been a 66 percent drop in measles cases worldwide since 2000, largely thanks to vaccination. The report estimates 23.2 million lives have been saved around the world because of the MMR vaccine.

But the downward trend of measles cases is showing worrisome signs of reversal. In the United States this year, 1,261 measles cases have been reported in 31 states — the largest number in almost three decades, according to the CDC.

During an infectious diseases conference in New York in November, Dr. Peter Hotez was followed throughout a hotel by several aggressive anti-vaccination protesters who filmed while pelting him with questions predicated on vaccine hoaxes. Hotez is a vaccine scientist, dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine at the Baylor College of Medicine, and author of the recent book, "Vaccines Did Not Cause Rachel’s Autism."

Hotez tweeted from the event, thanking hotel security for “getting me out safe.”

“I've been targeted by them for 20 years,” Hotez said. But the real-life harassment is part of “an awful new normal.”

For years, people opposed to vaccines have flooded Hotez’s social media accounts, calling him a shill for the pharmaceutical industry, though he’s never been paid by a drugmaker. That harassment has increased as the anti-vaccination movement has grown, first on social media, and then assisted by the sale of books and videos through Amazon, Hotez said.

The handful of doctors and scientists targeted by the movement have been largely left to combat misinformation and weather the subsequent harassment on their own, he added.

The CDC, the surgeon general and, until recently, even major medical societies and doctors, have been slow to counteract misinformation spread by vaccine protesters, Hotez said. That unwillingness to engage the anti-vaccination crowd could have disastrous consequences, he said.

“Future measles outbreaks, deaths from the flu,” Hotez said. “We’re condemning a generation of women to cancer," he said, referring to the HPV vaccine, which protects against cervical cancer, as well as cancers of the anus, penis and throat.

At the center of these aggressive protests and actions is Joshua Coleman, who claims a vaccine injury confined his son to a wheelchair. Coleman — who was charged with willful cruelty to a child in 2015 related to a fight over a parking spot at a local elementary school — organizes events like the one that targeted Hotez, and provides templates for the black and red signs emblazoned with vaccine misinformation that have been a staple of recent protests.

Vaccine advocates have likened the newer protests to publicity stunts from the Westboro Baptist church — offensive signs and sometimes costumes, paired with harassment of passers-by at events the media is already covering. Events in Times Square, at Disneyland, and at the premiere of the movie Frozen II, which stars the actress Kristin Bell, an outspoken supporter of vaccinations, have been counted as successes and shared widely by the anti-vaccine community on their Facebook and Instagram pages. Bell is a favorite target; activists recently crashed the unveiling of her star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame and interrupted her appearance on The Jimmy Kimmel show.

The real-world attacks on doctors, scientists and vaccine supporters seem to be a direct response to this year’s actions by Facebook and YouTube to rein in vaccine misinformation on their platforms. Videos and posts with content the platforms label as vaccine misinformation aren’t being seen and shared like they were in 2016.

“'I’m not able to communicate online through videos anymore and actually have people see it,” Coleman said. “That's kind of what started the whole concept of taking it to the streets and being out there with signs and with flyers.”
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I'd say just let these idiots get sick and die off but the problem is they'll take innocent people with them.
My karmic debt must be huge.

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My blog: An Embarrassment of Rich's
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(12-06-2019, 12:39 PM)Richard Dickson Wrote: I'd say just let these idiots get sick and die off but the problem is they'll take innocent people with them.

Plus most of them were vaccinated!
Gamertag: Tweakee
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We should follow Samoa's example with these nuts


https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/12/s...48814.html
"You want a vision of the future?Imagine a boot stomping on a human face.....forever."
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This article really could go in the "World" thread too since measles' big comeback has more to do with poverty and access in various countries, but anti-vaccine disinformation plays a part as well:

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsod...even-worse

Quote:After decades of progress against one of the most contagious human viruses, the world is seeing measles stage a slow, steady comeback. 

The World Health Organization and the CDC say in a new report that there were nearly 10 million cases of measles last year, with outbreaks on every continent.

An estimated 140,000 people died from measles in 2018, WHO says, up from an all-time low of 90,000 in 2016.

And so far 2019 has been even worse.

In Samoa a measles outbreak has shut down that nation's schools indefinitely. Government offices in the Pacific island nation have been closed for the last two days as part of a national immunization drive. In the Democratic Republic of Congo, measles has claimed more than 5,000 lives since January — as many people as have died in that country's ongoing Ebola outbreak. 

"In 2018 there's been an increase in both the cases and the deaths that have occurred from measles. In other words, we're backsliding," says Kate O'Brien, WHO's top executive on immunization, speaking in a video statement accompanying the new report.

"The reason we're having increases in cases and deaths of measles has to do fundamentally with people not getting vaccinated."

There are various reasons for the drop-off. O'Brien denounces misinformation about vaccines that's gained traction on some social media networks. In other places the health systems are so poor that vaccines simply don't reach the kids who need them.
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The health systems were probably as poor 2 years ago, right?

This is almost entirely the result of anti-vax idiocy. We tend to focus on the dumb well-off soccer moms in the US, but antivax propaganda reaches everywhere the Internet does.

I remember reading a story a few years ago about how anti-GMO crusaders in the US spent time and money to wage a lie-and-ignorance-based PR war in Africa, and were successful in making numerous African communities shun GMO produce that had been specially designed to survive in their region where regular crops could not. The result was that a rich westerner could smugly trumpet their success in saving the world, while more Africans starved.

Like the anti-GMO morons, anti-vaxxers don't have to convince people from other nations that they're right; they just have to play into their pre-existing (often well-founded) suspicion towards Western aid enough to make some people unsure. Then the anti-vaxxers can tell each other how smart and heroic they are with advanced medicine (probably) saving their kids from their true stupidity, while people in less privileged regions watch their kids die.
Gamertag: Tweakee
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