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DC Cinematic Universe Discussion
#1

Might as well make one of these for the other side.



First up: The Rock confirms he's Black Adam in Shazam.



https://twitter.com/TheRock/status/50718...89/photo/1

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#2

I know I've ruined my own fantasy, but I would love it if this thread stayed at one post for the next 12 years.

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#3
AImpossible. Too much vitriol waiting in the wings!
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#4

Shaun is Ernest, I'm the troll.



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#5
AI don't think the WB has the machinery to make this work, or the proper creative forces on the ground. They currently have Zack Snyder as a field commander. Marvel currently has Whedon. One of these things is not like the other in the least complimentary way imaginable. As little interest as I have in the latter as a creative entity, I am perturbed by the existence of the former.

I've said this before, but in some ways, Nolan indirectly screwed the WB with his closed off universe in terms of their being prepared to respond to Marvel's business model. Of course, Nolan was in the middle of prepping the last film when Marvel's plan really started to get results, but still.*

I mean the film that is meant as the true maiden voyage for this shared universe has had two of its primary figures marginalized. Goyer appears to have been unofficially kicked off the project, and Snyder's actors graciously pay him in backhanded compliments.

BvS is like a cram session for an exam where a failing grade potentially costs you billions of dollars in future revenue.





*I'm not saying that's important to me or that I would have liked it , because I'm not and I wouldn't have, but playing Devil's advocate, I'm sure the WB would have, in hindsight, preferred a better starting point than they currently have.
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#6

Yeah, I don't care. I can bitch about Marvel all I want, but at least I can tell they have some form of plan. Sony, Fox, and DC are all playing catch-up at this point, and it doesn't look good for any future projects.



Stupid shared universes.

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#7

This business about Goyer and the backhanded compliments?  I didn't even know he was off, is there a link to some coverage of this?

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#8
ABen Affleck credited Chris Terrio as the writer and called Snyder a great *visual* director. Goyer was not mentioned at all. Using the qualifier "visual", something Michael Shannon also did, is pretty telling.
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#9

It's unfortunate for the sake of Synders feelings I suppose, but those are very telling back handed compliments.  I'm glad they are aware of the limitations and the strengths of their team.

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#10

Seems to me DC has one advantage over Marvel, potentially: With the Re-Boots of Batman, first by Nolan and now by Snyder, they've established a true "open ended" Universe (or hey! an Multiverse!) for their characters. This could enable them to create really interesting story arcs like the Nolan Batman films, but keep the franchise going as they are with Batman Vs. Superman. They can have their cake and eat it too.



Of course that assumes that there is one working brain cell that also is capable of imaginative exertions.



I'll cop to being interested in The Rock as Black Adam.

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#11

Just as long as it doesn't turn into the "alternate universes interacting with each other" CRAP that comics are so fond of.  If it's treated like Fringe or something that could actually be cool...  But that's not often the case is it?

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#12

Think of it Freeman! Bale Batman Vs. Batfleck! IN 3D!

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#13
A[quote name="Cylon Baby" url="/community/t/151528/dc-cinematic-universe-discussion#post_3769769"]Think of it Freeman! Bale Batman Vs. Batfleck! IN 3D!
[/quote]Routh Superman vs Cavill Superman vs CGI Christopher Reeve Superman. Boom...mind blown.
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#14
AI know hindsight is 20/20 but if Warner Bros had given the Superman Returns take another go* they could have folded it in with Nolan's take. Looking back, and especially after TDKR, Nolan's trilogy isn't as beholden to 'realism' as a lot of people think. Superman existing in that world isn't as big a stretch as some people say.

*As Josh points out. It wasn't a financial failure.
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#15
AI see absolutely no reason why Nolan's movie couldn't have slowly gone more and more comic book. By the third movie give us something like clay face, and then Man of Steel basically being the same movie it was. There's no reason it had to stop the continuity aside from Nolan maybe not wanting to continue.
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#16

Are there people who claim THE DARK KNIGHT RISES is not comic booky? That it's some kind of realistic techno-thriller? MAN OF STEEL is cinema verite compared to it (not a handheld-servo zoom pun).

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#17
AThat's really what I was going for. It bordered on camp at times.
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#18
AI think it's less to do with the silliness and more to do with nobody having "powers"
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#19

True, there probably was some kind of attempt to ground the characters in realism. But not the setting or the events. Still, it would be a very small step to go from Bane to someone with superpowers, I'd even call it downshifting...

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#20
AIt's like an itch I had Nolan just refused to scratch. "Introduce clay face! Do Ivy correctly! Killer Croc!" As much as I loved the Begins origins section once the first half is done, I wish he had let go of the leash a bit more. The movie goes from this beautiful oscar worthy thing to EVERYTHING IS SILLY. I would have preferred Begins to be that oscar movie for its entire run time, but OK, if we're going to be so silly, go all the way.

I just hate that he committed to the no powers thing so completely, like its Batmans no kill rule or something.
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#21
A[quote name="Virtanen" url="/community/t/151528/dc-cinematic-universe-discussion#post_3769895"]True, there probably was some kind of attempt to ground the characters in realism. But not the setting or the events. Still, it would be a very small step to go from Bane to someone with superpowers, I'd even call it downshifting...
[/quote]

The Pit chiropractor had superpowers. He fixed Bruce by punching him in the back, pushing the verterbra further in. Thats so miraculous it has to be superpowered.
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#22
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike's Pants View Post

That's really what I was going for. It bordered on camp at times.


No, it didn't.  For as grandiose as Bane's scheme was, there was still no way that Flash or Green Lantern would've fit into that setting.

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#23
ANot as it is. But if TDKR had been released as part of a shared universe it wouldn't have needed a whole of tweaking to fit in.

I think Batman as a character is independent enough that you can have an intimidate story like The Dark Knight* with someone like Superman doing his thing in Metropolis.

*Compared to Man of Steel.
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#24
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul755 View Post


Routh Superman vs Cavill Superman vs CGI Christopher Reeve Superman. Boom...mind blown.

I thought Routh Superman WAS CGI Christopher Reeve Superman.



(No love for Dean Cain?)

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#25
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike's Pants View Post

Not as it is. But if TDKR had been released as part of a shared universe it wouldn't have needed a whole of tweaking to fit in.

I think Batman as a character is independent enough that you can have an intimidate story like The Dark Knight* with someone like Superman doing his thing in Metropolis.

*Compared to Man of Steel.


You can't involve Superman in a story like TDK, though, which is the entire point of the shared universe.



I just don't buy that TDKR is intentionally arch or secretly having fun with its comic book-ness.  It's as ashamed of its pulp roots as ever, and if the increasing scale of the story makes the realism less believable than ever, the film is no less committed to that aesthetic or self-serious for it.  But you're also sort of talking about a hypothetical TDKR that would be different from the one that exists, so it's hard to say with any certainty what would've worked better or worse if the film had different priorities.

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#26
AYou're certainly right in that I'm rewriting TDKR to suit my theory which makes it a bit pointless.

I don't think a shared universe necessarily means that Superman or the Flash must be involved in a Batman film. If you tried to slot Superman into The Dark Knight it ceases to be The Dark Knight, but I wouldn't have a problem watching The Dark Knight knowing that Brandon Routh is lifting things a few hundred miles away if that makes sense.

I'm not articulating my point very well.
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#27

The idea of an overpowered, wacky Superman existing out there, lifting shit, in the Nolan universe is jarring to the tone he set. The movies certainly have silly elements, but they strike a tone where Bruce is struggling against fairly grounded threats that someone like Superman would overcome in about 20 seconds. There's silly, and then there's silly.

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#28

Looks like this movie will exist outside of the connected universe they're establishing: http://insidemovies.ew.com/2014/09/03/shazam-movie-rock-fun/

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#29

But with that said does that mean that going forward we won't accept a stand alone Batman story? I agree that "Where's Superman" is a lot more problematic than "Where's Hawkeye?" but isn't there room to have a standalone Batman/Joker story without Kal-El being a factor?



I know you refer to Nolan's adherence to a somewhat realistic tone but as Schwartz said, I'm sort of talking about an alternate universe where Warner greenlit a shared universe when Returns and Begins were released.

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#30

But by speaking in hypotheticals it already renders your argument moot.

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#31

Justice League Unlimited made it seem believable that Superman couldn't be everywhere at once, with so many crisis always happening across the planet and galaxy. And they made a point of showing problems that needed the unique skills and mindsets of the other characters to solve.



What a great show. It made me appreciate the mainline DC heroes in a way I never did before. It makes you believe a good cinematic DCU could possible, with the right writing and approach...*sigh* best not to think about that too hard, with the Dini/Timm brain trust being locked out of the DCU forever.



I'm still looking forward to BvS though. Whatever it ends up being, it'll at least be an intense visual experience on that first IMAX viewing.

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#32

I guess


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun H View Post
 

But by speaking in hypotheticals it already renders your argument moot.


Ouch. I wasn't really arguing any point in particular, just pondering. I'm very tired.

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#33
A
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Reese View Post

with the Dini/Timm brain trust being locked out of the DCU forever.


Could someone explain this to me? Why would WB purposefully ostracize the main guys that helped keep their DC properties relevant on TV, and one can even argue, the movies? I keep getting the feeling that the Supes vs Batman movie is going to fail badly and that's that wrt to DC on the movie screen for at least another decade.
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#34
Quote:

Originally Posted by donde View Post
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle Reese View Post
 

with the Dini/Timm brain trust being locked out of the DCU forever.




Could someone explain this to me? Why would WB purposefully ostracize the main guys that helped keep their DC properties relevant on TV, and one can even argue, the movies? I keep getting the feeling that the Supes vs Batman movie is going to fail badly and that's that wrt to DC on the movie screen for at least another decade.

But I don't particularly think the inclusion of Dini or Timm automatically mean better DC films. I think they're far more effective when they have a TV series to build off of.



Which is particularly why Justice League and Young Justice.

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#35

But how would you know?  Do they have film experience?

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