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SERIAL Podcast by Sarah Koenig - "WHO KILLED HAE MIN LEE IN 1999?"
#71
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Originally Posted by Muzman View Post
 

Meanwhile all the trial transcripts trickle out like longer and more boring episodes of Serial.



Impossible!


(zing!)

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#72

The meltdown over The Intercept was so odd.  It was like watching a car accident.  After their interview with Jay, they posted an interview with the prosecutor and in their intro took potshots at Sarah Koenig, Serial, its fans and internet "detectives," and declared Adnan unequivocally guilty.  But then Serial denied what the writers found "most troubling" (that Sarah Koenig et al hadn't made sufficient efforts to contact the prosecutor for an interview) and the Intercept was forced to post all kinds of corrections to its story a day later.  It was a mess.  There's supposed to be a part two but it was delayed, most likely to be fact-checked and vetted in a way that part one wasn't.

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#73
I feel like this would get better traction in the TV forum but that would mean re-hashing a lot of stuff.

Anyway, blast from the past - in case you haven't heard, there is a four hour HBO doco about this case now. It's interesting because it kind of piggybacks on Serial but at the same time approaches the case as a typical true crime re-investigation. In it there is a ton of the things that have been turned up in the years since Serial (something that basically never stopped thanks to Rabia's podcast).

The end result is kind of unnerving in the existential way. A bit like Foucalt's Pendulum or the end of The Usual Suspects. Not just because Kevin Spacey is the bad guy (ahem) but because you must contemplate how little of what you think you know is still true. Maybe none of it

So in the end they paint a picture of none of the state's case against Adnan being true. None!
Serial got us all to wonder why Jay had so many versions of his story and why some details got mixed up and so forth. But it spent its time looking at the various points where there was confirming evidence, where things intersected and events could be correlated. Their problem and the source of their confusion, according to this, is that things don't line up beatutifully because none of it happened. It's a story strung together using the cell phone location data and call register and then interviewing people to find confirmatory moments.

This is pretty much lawyer and blogger Susans Simpson's argument, but they do a good job expanding on it with real interviews with all the actual characters (except Jay. Although there is a little bit of Don, amazingly enough).

This is a unique situation in a case re-appraisal that I've seen. There's countless cases where you find that BS story from the jailhouse snitch and once you turn that up the whole thing falls apart. But here, even if some of Jay's story was crap, there's always so much other intersecting evidence and witness statements that I think even the most ardent Free Adnan type or retrial advocate would think there is some relationship to actual events in the real world. But it really seems like there isn't.

And that leaves some disturbing implications. Not only that Jay made up a story to vaguely account for the phone record, with prompting from the police. Or that the cops went and got confirming statements from other witnesses, prodding people into misremembering dates and events around the time of the murder that sound suspicious. But Jay has to have given these interviews and then gone out and "lived" this story with his friends and acquaintences, including telling his porn shop co-worker how he buried a body. Including taking Jen to supposedly dump the burial tools, which she never specifically saw, in the dumpster!

That one is the biggest WTF thing for me, unless I missed some detail that undermines it (which is another thing about this production; a lot of really big details to Serial listeners are skimmed over fairly quickly even though their implications are large and bizarre). I can even get behind the idea that the cops are so focussed on this roadmap they think they've found that they unwittingly fool themselves into believing that every time they prod someone into confirming the phone record they think they are just uncovering the truth. But Jay - Jay has to have taken his friend in the car, thrown some stuff in a dumpster and told them it was the tools he and Adnan used to bury Hae. That's just... wow.

This show now renders this case one of the more bizarre and elaborate examples of false conviction you'll probably ever see. So complex are the implications a lot of people probably won't budge, just because that's easier. In the end it seems we know even less about what really happened to Hae Min Lee. She left school one afternoon and six weeks later was found buried in a park and that's it. Prepare to be confused.
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#74
(04-23-2019, 06:59 AM)muzman Wrote: This show now renders this case one of the more bizarre and elaborate examples of false conviction you'll probably ever see.  So complex are the implications a lot of people probably won't budge, just because that's easier. In the end it seems we know even less about what really happened to Hae Min Lee.  She left school one afternoon and six weeks later was found buries in a park and that's it. Prepare to be confused.

From having listened to the first season of Serial and watching the HBO doc, it's clear the State's case absolutely sucks and Adnan should never have been charged, let alone convicted.

But.

A big part of me thinks Adnan knows something

The person who found the body is suspicious (though it's hard to figure out why the killer would then turn around and report the body to the police) and Hae's BF at the time of the murder has a paper-thin alibi ("My mom says I was working!").

I'm finding the parallels between this case and the Trump administration disturbingly close: in both instances, we have glaring, clear examples of corruption, deceit, and the twisting of the rule of law to protect the system rather than the people. And in both instances, no amount of evidence seems to be enough to actually change things.

In the case of Adnan's latest setback (the highest court in Maryland reversing the reversal), it's both infuriating and confounding when it seems so clear that the original trial was bullshit.
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#75
He might know something I guess. If Jay's latest version about the buying weed together has any truth to it that would explain a few things. About the murder I don't know.
As the crime writers podcast said, he's never changed his story (since being put in jail anyway. Did he ask for a ride or not was a sticking point before) and he turned down that deal where he would get out in 4 years (that conveniently coincided with the DA retiring or whatever it was). So it seems like he's dug in and not going to do anything different. But anything is possible I suppose.
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