Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Western Society, Pop Culture, and the Cacophony of Social Media
That's certainly true. On the other hand, the sad fact is that sometimes there's just so much crazy going around in a fanbase that that is a useful metric to employ in avoiding obnoxious/disturbing/crazy people. It's definitely not fair to the work itself, and it's not fair to the members of the fanbase who don't fit the stereotype, but sometimes there's just no getting around it.
Reply
People liking Rorschach from Watchmen a little too much is a bit more niche version of that I suppose. But sometimes people just like a thing because it is a cool character handled well. They haven't really thought about it that hard.

It does pain me no end that Fight Club, an extraordinary satire and one of the best examinations of masculinity and masculinity cults, still gets lumped in as an enabler of them. That really is the same variety of association that says only the most didactic and unambiguous media can represent terrible things without maybe possibly supporting them. (it's a debate that never really ends I suppose. I remember Wim Wenders having a go at Downfall/Der Untergang for still managing to venerate Hitler, to a degree because he was sort of the lead character and filmed accordingly. I dunno what you're supposed to do about that)
Reply
If someone lacks the social skills or confidence to handle obnoxious/disturbing/crazy people so much that they need to exclude masses of normal people just to have the 10% chance they can avoid a few, that person is a human being worth avoiding themselves. I'd just assume they are preachy tedious motherfuckers or comatose wet lettuces. Liking those properties is not even the problem, they are good films/shows. Personally identifying with and lauding the main character in each is the indicator of someone who is not quite there.

And even then, it's usually an indication of someone who has just taken a surface reading of the show, not that someone is toxic themselves. And that's pretty much most normal people who aren't used to deep diving into these things like us nerds. I used to have many debates with a guy about how Walt was not a good person, that he basically beyond any redemption from episode two. He was a good guy, he just thought Walt was cool. But on the surface, Tyler, Rick and Walt are 'badass' and appeal to our darker natures, of who we could be without the straight jacket of social conformity. That shit appeals, it always has done.
Reply
(06-13-2018, 04:11 AM)flint Wrote: If someone lacks the social skills or confidence to handle obnoxious/disturbing/crazy people so much that they need to exclude masses of normal people just to have the 10% chance they can avoid a few, that person is a human being worth avoiding themselves.
*raises hand* Heyo!

Quote:I'd just assume they are preachy tedious motherfuckers or comatose wet lettuces.
You can assume whatever you like, my friend. You may even be not completely wrong. But personally, I'd much rather be assumed to be a preachy tedious motherfucker than have to deal with, say, people who sexually fetishize My Little Pony characters. And if that means I'm missing out on something, well, I think I can cope.
Reply
(06-13-2018, 04:37 AM)commodorejohn Wrote:
Quote:I'd just assume they are preachy tedious motherfuckers or comatose wet lettuces.
You can assume whatever you like, my friend. You may even be not completely wrong. But personally, I'd much rather be assumed to be a preachy tedious motherfucker than have to deal with, say, people who sexually fetishize My Little Pony characters. And if that means I'm missing out on something, well, I think I can cope.

Bronyphobia CJ? Tsk, tsk. That's gotta be problematic in [current year]. Big Grin

You've taken the example to the extreme, a grown man liking My Little Pony, well that's probably a more reliable indicator of a wrong-un. But yeah, popular entertainment like Breaking Bad? It gets to the stage where someones choices on which people to exclude even engaging with reveal more about the personality of the excluder than the excluded on a statistical basis.
Reply
Yes, I've taken the example to the extreme, because that's the best way to make it undeniably clear. Talk about people who like Fight Club just a little too much, and people feel like they have room to equivocate and avoid admitting that someone might have a point. Talk about people who want to have sex with Rainbow Dash, on the other hand, and people start making for the door. It's a very useful rhetorical device.
Reply
(06-13-2018, 04:59 AM)commodorejohn Wrote: Yes, I've taken the example to the extreme, because that's the best way to make it undeniably clear. Talk about people who like Fight Club just a little too much, and people feel like they have room to equivocate and avoid admitting that someone might have a point. Talk about people who want to have sex with Rainbow Dash, on the other hand, and people start making for the door. It's a very useful rhetorical device.

It is absolutely a Rhetorical Device, and a very useful and common one. It's called a Straw Man. Naming Rick & Morty as your favourite cartoon (and that was the qualifier, not 'talking about it a little too much') does not equate to saying Birth of a Nation is your favourite black and white movie.
Reply
See, the thing here is that you're drawing a distinction between "judgements I make based on other people's taste in entertainment" and "judgements other people make based on still other people's taste in entertainment." And, clearly, it's okay for you to judge people who like things that you don't, but it's not okay for other people to judge fans of things you like. Which is terribly convenient!
Reply
Well, everything is a judgement call ultimately, but I can't accept any logical argument construction where you put liking Breaking Bad in the same category as liking My Little Pony in *that* way.

I'm just saying that if we have person A and person B:

- Person A says they like Fight Club, Person B says this likely makes them a horrible person.
* I am arguing that the above statement says more about Person B than Person A.

- Person A says they like Mein Kampf, Person B says this likely makes them a horrible person.
* I am arguing that the above statement means that Person B is most likely correct.

But there is no real contradiction or convenience, because the two things blatantly don't compare. Using both examples in an argument is not structurally honest.

There are works that are irrevocably tainted, works that do indeed give an indication that the individual who likes them holds a specific worldview that makes them a objectively bad person. We can argue over the grey area of the fault line of this category - if you feel it's a binary choice, but I cannot accept an area that puts Breaking Bad and a My Little Pony fetish in the same section. It's just a cheap schlock semantic shot.

My argument (and the argument of the Vertigo article writer above) is less that these are works that I like or don't like, and more that it's likely that if the works are of a certain production quality, popularity and recent, that they are not a useful factor in any way shape or form for judging someones character. It's possible someone just enjoys watching that show.

There's a recent pop culture thing that DOES fit the counter to my argument quite honestly, without having to resort to such sophistry.

Roseanne. A well loved showed from the 80s, revived. Is someone who enjoys this show just enjoying a nostalgia fuelled, working class, tell-it-like-it-is schtick (and are unconcerned with off screen behaviour), or are they horrible racists and irredeemable human beings?

Just saying.
Reply
(06-12-2018, 06:19 PM)Nooj Wrote: https://melmagazine.com/youre-doing-wome...d72b361519

Quote:One of the most exhausting aspects of our current cultural moment are the “ugh, only straight white men like this”

Not sure I feel knowledgeable enough about this trend to comment on it, but, apparently, this now extends into what beer you drink?
https://twitter.com/daresaypj/status/100...2375622657
Reply
IPAs are fucking gross.
home taping is killing music
Reply
So basically this is a complaint about how everyone is becoming a 17 year old hipster?
Reply
(06-13-2018, 11:03 AM)boone daniels Wrote: IPAs are fucking gross.

sigh.


Didn't think I'd beat a man half to death today.  But here we are.




 I think all Marvel films are okay. This is my design.

Except for Thor 2: the literal worst.
Reply
I'm a beer person above any other alcohol save maybe cider. Beer is one of those drinks I'll try any style of at least once. But every IPA I've tried I have found way too sour, with a bad aftertaste.

But I'm open to change!
home taping is killing music
Reply
I can enjoy a nice IPA. The problem I have is that out here on the west coast, you go to a restaurant or bar or brewpub or whatever and the beer list is 50-60% pale ales, India pale ales, triple India pale ales, modified 360 kickflip to India pale ales, and 40-50% absolutely anything else.

Man. All of a sudden I really miss D.T.
Reply
I don't drink, so I judge you all.

(awaits the onslaught of negative rep)
Reply
Twitter is just an ad hominem launching pad.

So fucking stupid.

Reply
(06-13-2018, 12:22 PM)mondguy Wrote: I don't drink, so I judge you all.

(awaits the onslaught of negative rep)

WELL LOOK AT THIS ASSHOLE.
 I think all Marvel films are okay. This is my design.

Except for Thor 2: the literal worst.
Reply
Pretty much. The 'I don't know you or your tastes, or what circumstances may have driven you to like/dislike something, but bathe yourself in my moral judgement' takes are numerous, and increasingly annoying.

(06-13-2018, 12:54 PM)ska oreo Wrote:
(06-13-2018, 12:22 PM)mondguy Wrote: I don't drink, so I judge you all.

(awaits the onslaught of negative rep)

WELL LOOK AT THIS ASSHOLE.

"Well look who it is!  Mister I-don't-need-alcohol-to-aimlessly wander in life, bouncing from one attempt to another to recapture their youth, that honestly wasn't that great to begin with...but damnit, just to feel something again beyond the day to day malaise of existence, and..."


Fuck it.  I need a drink.
Reply
The strawberry lime flavor of this has very much been my summer jam:

http://www.rekorderlig.com/us/cider-finder/
home taping is killing music
Reply
Seth MacFarlane tweets he's embarrassed to work for Fox because of Fox News. Twitter loses its shit: https://deadline.com/2018/06/seth-macfar...202412163/

I feel this will not go well.
"I'd rather have hope...than nothing at all."
-Illyana Rasputin, X-Men: Omega #1

"But the public, knowing what it wanted, spinning happily, let the comic books survive."
-Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451

Twitter: @BartLBishop
Reply
He makes, and has made, a fuckton of money for Fox over the years. Not like Roseanne money, but, like, George Lucas money. And I'd bet dollars to doughnuts Netflix or another streaming platform has offered him just as much, if not more, to leave Fox.

He's gonna be fine.
home taping is killing music
Reply
Nah, I'm not worried about MacFarlane's person. I absolutely hate Family Guy, and am conflicted about his other work (love Ted, have heard good things about The Orville).

I just mean, every time a celebrity takes a political stand (regardless of their true motivation) more fuel is added to the fire of the narrative of Hollywood elites being "out of touch" and blah blah blah.
"I'd rather have hope...than nothing at all."
-Illyana Rasputin, X-Men: Omega #1

"But the public, knowing what it wanted, spinning happily, let the comic books survive."
-Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451

Twitter: @BartLBishop
Reply
(Yesterday, 08:47 AM)bartleby_scriven Wrote: I just mean, every time a celebrity takes a political stand (regardless of their true motivation) more fuel is added to the fire of the narrative of Hollywood elites being "out of touch" and blah blah blah.

Is it really just a "narrative?"
[Image: latest?cb=20130405010724]
Reply
It's been reflexively repeated in one direction verbatim for decades now. Um . . . yeah?
Reply
Given how often popular journalists, demagogues and politicians can be shown to be mistaken, lying, obfuscating or just bad people I'm left wondering who it is that's supposed to be in-touch that's so much better in their opinions than Hollywood celebrities.
Most of it seems to be merely than a lot of people have decided it's distasteful to be (potentially) rich and (certainly) famous and then publicly espouse political (read: faintly left wing) opinions. Conservative ones are probably fine though.
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: superlaser, 1 Guest(s)