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Final Fantasy VII: The Remake
AThe problem is that Square Enix is asking for a shit ton of good will--none of which they've done much to deserve. Because if that trailer was supposed to assure its fans that they know what they're doing--they've failed completely.

Sorry, Zhukov, but saying "because making video games is haaaaard" is not a valid excuse. More importantly, we've already been down this road before--with the same franchise even. And all these sequels, prequels, side stories do is dilute these games into these games. Look at XIII. Look at Kingdom Hearts. All games ruined because because Square got greedy and wanting to milk these franchises for all of their worth.

It's not being entitled. It's being fucking smart and knowing to call out a publisher on their bullshit.
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Hmm... Uematsu is also not on board as the game's composer. We'll probably just get re-recorded orchestral versions of the original score anyway.

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So they've clarified their statements.



Quote:

 It means instead of concluding in one entry, multiple entries are being considered in development. Each entry will have its own unique story. As a gaming experience, each entry will have the volume of content equal to a full-sized game.


So....this just sounds like they'll be making REMAKE into its own franchise. So, hopefully, the first game will be the entirety of FF7 and all other entries will be the usual sequel-prequel bullshit.

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Why no Uematsu tho? Surely there's nothing TRUCKLOADS OF MONEY couldn't fix?

Man. Thats way more upsetting than the episodic bugaboo. Sure, they'll just re-record and remix some stuff. But The Master revisiting his second-greatest body of work would have been amazing.

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I just watched the trailer. Anyone else not that impressed with the character models? Cloud's arms are just....weird.





And I'm surprised they went with Barrett's original design, with the flat top haircut. Not sure why they added sunglasses, though.






Personally, I think Advent Children did a better take on the character:





As for the combat system I am wondering how it will work with the bosses. Fighting Sephiroth won't be the same.

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No way, Wesley Snipes Barrett is best Barrett.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Ska Oreo View Post


So....this just sounds like they'll be making REMAKE into its own franchise. So, hopefully, the first game will be the entirety of FF7 and all other entries will be the usual sequel-prequel bullshit.



Hopefully. Square is more than welcome to get as much blood from that stone as they like, if they give us a complete FF7 in one go.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by t3cii View Post
 

As for the combat system I am wondering how it will work with the bosses. Fighting Sephiroth won't be the same.



Done right, the final fight with Sephiroth's two forms could be pretty epic. Splitting the group into multiple parties on separate floating flatforms, coordinating attacks to take him down... sounds fun. I'm also interested to see how they handle random encounters, if a lot of the game is going to re-written to make more sense, and how the world map will work.



Ah, shit... I'm getting excited about this, and it's likely a year or more off, knowing Square.

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A[quote name="Zhukov" url="/community/t/153934/final-fantasy-vii-the-remake/100#post_3983454"]The reality is these super big-time AAA projects cost too much, and require too many resources,[/quote]
See, you could've just stopped here, because this is the problem. AAA games cost too goddamn much and it's killing creative integrity and innovation at that level. But the solution isn't to raise prices. All that will do is decrease sales, because outside of a select group of obsessive ultra-fans, there's a hard limit to how much people are willing to spend on a piece of entertainment, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with what the company that makes it thinks is justified. (Just ask the comics industry how orienting their business model around the tiny group of people willing to pay primo prices for the same damn product with glitter on worked out for them.) The solution is to scale back to sensible, realistic budgets and schedules, accept whatever constraints come with that, and focus on making the best damn games possible under those limitations. If that means that the quadzillion-dollar cutscenes will be 20% less shiny, so be it.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by D.T. View Post
 


Done right, the final fight with Sephiroth's two forms could be pretty epic. Splitting the group into multiple parties on separate floating flatforms, coordinating attacks to take him down... sounds fun. I'm also interested to see how they handle random encounters, if a lot of the game is going to re-written to make more sense, and how the world map will work.



Ah, shit... I'm getting excited about this, and it's likely a year or more off, knowing Square.


Key word being "Done right." I'm a realist, and my negative reaction has less to do with KEEPING FF7 PURE and more to do with Square Enix having a less than stellar track record and a penchant for dicking around its fanbase for years. And the fact that the very first thing they announce after showing off a, imo very unimpressive, trailer, is that consumers will be able to look forward to paying for multiple installments to get the complete experience. It just says alot about their intentions with the game.



Also, Commodore is right on the money.

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ASounds like this won't be a PS4 exclusive. Which is nice since I don't feel like pegging down another 300 bucks on a system.

I'm fine with it being an action RPG. The old school RPGs where your guy just stands there and is hit was never really my thing.

The one thing I didn't like hearing was how they are probably cutting a few scenes from the orignal. I took that as "no Cloud ad a cross dressing call girl".
My favorite part...
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Quote:

Originally Posted by ImmortanNick View Post

The one thing I didn't like hearing was how they are probably cutting a few scenes from the orignal. I took that as "no Cloud ad a cross dressing call girl".
My favorite part...


Okay, weirdly enough, this was the first thing people asked about, and the first thing Square said would be intact. Gamers are fucking weird, aren't we?

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AWe are. But it what I like about that game. How it infused a story about the world ending and a genetically engineered super soldier with scenes at a casino, cross dressing, and craziness at the beach. I really feel that is why the game is so beloved. One moment you're watching Red 13 learn the truth of his father's sacrifice, the next seeing a fat dude hump the air.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by commodorejohn View Post


See, you could've just stopped here, because this is the problem. AAA games cost too goddamn much and it's killing creative integrity and innovation at that level. But the solution isn't to raise prices. All that will do is decrease sales, because outside of a select group of obsessive ultra-fans, there's a hard limit to how much people are willing to spend on a piece of entertainment, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with what the company that makes it thinks is justified. (Just ask the comics industry how orienting their business model around the tiny group of people willing to pay primo prices for the same damn product with glitter on worked out for them.) The solution is to scale back to sensible, realistic budgets and schedules, accept whatever constraints come with that, and focus on making the best damn games possible under those limitations. If that means that the quadzillion-dollar cutscenes will be 20% less shiny, so be it.


A couple things tho:


First, people will pay for that shit. Battlefield and CoD prove it.

Second, most of these costs aren't due to gaudy cutscenes. Its all personnel. Video game credits can run just as long as major motion pictures' now, because there's so much more shit that needs doing.

"Do less shit!"



I mean, did you not see the initial reaction people had to Fallout 4 because they were running an updated game engine, instead of using an ALL NEW BLAZING ULTRA TECH BEASTMODE ENGINE?!? THAT THEY BUILT FROM SCRATCH, MEANING ALL THE BACKEND TOOLSETS ALSO HAD TO BE REBUILT AND ALSO EVERY ASSET HAS TO BE REDONE. AND SO ON. JUST SO THE FUCKBOYS WONT CRY ABOUT A WALL TEXTURE.



Building game-specific engines is hugely expensive. Squeenix did just that for FF13. And sunk so much money into it, and wasted so much time generating the development tools, that they had to scavenge unused assets to crank out two sub-par sequel-sequels just to make the money make sense there. And thats not a case of EVIL SQUARE DOING EVIL GREEDY THINGS. That was a case of, 'holy shit we're going bankrupt because there's no way to recoup the development costs on this fucking thing.'



So, from the gate, they're acknowledging that. This shit is stupid expensive to develop at the level of clarity and detail that FANS DEMAND, so we're gonna do it in a way that makes sense. I got no problem with it. Sure, they could just use Unreal Engine and some off the shelf SDKs. But that's no fun.



Same goes for network infrastructure. I feel like the extended costs of CoD and Battlefield are justified because you gotta play on their servers, using their network code, that they have to maintain. Alternatively, they could just charge a subscription fee, like MMOs, which would ultimately be more expensive for consumers. Fuck that, give me the DLC.



Am I the only person that remembers paying $80 goddamn dollars for Chrono Trigger brand-new, at Toys R Us? That was the MSRP! That's like $120 bucks today! Which, maybe not coincidentally, is around the final pricepoint for a lot of these 'complete' game packages that people are crying about. N64 carts were up there in price as well.

I didn't complain then because I knew Square would back that price up in quality. If they're going that same route in FF7, how can you criticize them? All the complaints about the mobile-led race to the bottom, freemium, F2P, all that crap. But ya'll also want to complain when a company says upfront, "this is the most baller shit we can possibly ever make, here's a trailer showing just how fucking nuts the level of detail is gonna be, ya'll already know how huge the game is, so yeah we gotta split it up and charge more, because we are investing everything we have into it."

Oh my gooooooooooood how could they? Its like Honda announcing the new NSX, yeah its fast and awesome, but it'll also cost ya! And then people losing their minds because its more expensive than a Camry. Why should these things cost the same amount of money? Its such a bizarre complaint. Give me the biggest, most baller video games yall got. Fuck Angry Birds. 

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AMinus open world games, what's the average campaign length nowadays? 10 hours. 12?

I remember always talking with my middle school buddies about the timer on the game. It was a challenge back then to see who could beat the game in under 40 hours. If it's the same way with this game, I'd have zero issue paying for four $30 dollar games if it meant I could get 60 to 80 hours of game play.
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A[quote name="Zhukov" url="/community/t/153934/final-fantasy-vii-the-remake/100#post_3984325"]First, people will pay for that shit. Battlefield and CoD prove it.[/quote]
Some people will, sure. But how many, and how far can they be pushed before it's finally too much? Again, this kind of attempting to wring every last drop possible out of the customer base without actually providing anything commensurately more satisfying is exactly how the comics industry autoerotically asphyxiated itself.

Quote:Second, most of these costs aren't due to gaudy cutscenes. Its all personnel. Video game credits can run just as long as major motion pictures' now, because there's so much more shit that needs doing.
Yes, and that's the problem. Gaudy cutscenes may not be all of it, but gaudy a whole bunch of shit sure is. We're now living in an age where the average single game texture contains as many pixels as entire game screens of yesteryear, if not more, and that's not even getting into all the other things that get slathered onto the next-gen sundae. Normal-mapping, light-mapping, reflection-mapping, yada yada yada, all those might make the finished product look x% better, but they also require people working on them, which drives up the costs of development into the stratosphere. And sure, people might say they like that, but do they like it enough to pay $100 for it? $150? $200? At some point the answer is gonna start being "no" a lot more than it is "yes," and when they get to that point they're in trouble.

Quote:"Do less shit!"

I mean, did you not see the initial reaction people had to Fallout 4 because they were running an updated game engine, instead of using an ALL NEW BLAZING ULTRA TECH BEASTMODE ENGINE?!? THAT THEY BUILT FROM SCRATCH, MEANING ALL THE BACKEND TOOLSETS ALSO HAD TO BE REBUILT AND ALSO EVERY ASSET HAS TO BE REDONE. AND SO ON. JUST SO THE FUCKBOYS WONT CRY ABOUT A WALL TEXTURE.
Yes, and that's why they should absolutely ignore those people, because it's utter madness to let them dictate things. I mean, in the worst case they're risking the purchases of a small minority of their overall base, and in practice not even that because I guaran-fucking-tee you most of those people bought the game anyway. The industry needs to stop letting this bizarro arms race mentality dictate every single decision they make, because sooner or later it's going to kill them.

Quote:Am I the only person that remembers paying $80 goddamn dollars for Chrono Trigger brand-new, at Toys R Us? That was the MSRP! That's like $120 bucks today! Which, maybe not coincidentally, is around the final pricepoint for a lot of these 'complete' game packages that people are crying about. N64 carts were up there in price as well.
Yes, and that price-driving horseshit on the part of Nintendo was one of the major reasons that the Playstation was such a success.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by commodorejohn View Post

Yes, and that price-driving horseshit on the part of Nintendo was one of the major reasons that the Playstation was such a success.


But the Nintendo games were still better, so...?

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AI didn't say they weren't good. I said that the overpricing (which, to be very clear, had more to do with Nintendo deliberately fixing prices than anything with the actual development budget of the games - they had a serious racket going back in the day, you can read about it in a variety of accounts from developers that worked on NES versions of different titles) became a serious liability as soon as someone came along with better hardware and lower prices - which is why, with Rare exception (*rimshot*), the N64 was an also-ran with third-party developers. High prices reduce sales volume, especially in entertainment - it's basic economics 101. Yet studios somehow keep refusing to learn that.
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AShit, I paid 80 bucks for Turok 2. That was what, 20 years ago?
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Quote:

Originally Posted by D.T. View Post
 


Okay, weirdly enough, this was the first thing people asked about, and the first thing Square said would be intact. Gamers are fucking weird, aren't we?



I think it's just that the Honey Bee Inn sort of represents the game at its most wackiest. And, if I remember correctly, it's one of the earliest "quests" the gamer goes on.



I found this article, which is kind of interesting. FFVII was originally going to be an SNES game set in New York? http://uproxx.com/gammasquad/2015/03/clo...ntasy-vii/

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Felt it was pretty appropriate to put this here, but yeah, I've been playing REMAKE.  It's...interesting.  I'll come out and say it: I like it better than I thought I would.  Granted, when the bar is basically "be better than XV or XIII" it's not that impressive, but there's good here.  And if all you want is to see key moments from FFVII presented in modern graphics, well yeah there are plenty of moments that hit that nostalgia button pretty hard.

Where I'm iffy is that I still don't see the reason why this game exists, nor do I have much faith that SE can pull this game off.  It's pretty known that Remake part 1 is only going to handle the Midgar sections up until the gang assaults the main Shinra building, so REMAKE has to stretch 40 hours of gametime for a story whose act pretty much finishes in less than 10 hours.  And you really feel that grind as the game does all it can to stretch out what is essentially the first act of Final Fantasy 7.  And....yeah, there's a lot of modern SE in those moments.  

The thing is...REMAKE isn't really a remake of VII. While it follows the main story beats, there's a lot of suggest that things might dramatically change. But it's not that much of a reimagining because...well it still has to be Final Fantasy VII So far a lot of these changes and hints feel surface-level, they don't really change the main story beats at all.  Considering what I know about the ending, I almost wish the game went "fuck it" sooner, and just went crazy from the get-go.  As of now, it just seems like we have to wait till Part 2 to see if SE can make any of the changes stick.  And who knows when that game is coming out?
"Why did she do it?"
"Why are you the fucking Police?"

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I'll pick it up eventually. The demo started out iffy with mashing square to attack boring trash mobs, but it picked up when you start switching off with Barrett against the Megascorpion boss. I'm curious to try the other party members.

I'll say fall 2023 for part 2. Maybe 2024, if they end up waffling on whether to include overworld navigation, then scrap and replace it with linear travel montages, then the face model for Cloud gets arrested for drug posession and they have to scrub him from the game, then they decide they need to remaster FF7RPart1 for PS5 first, etc.
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(04-13-2020, 09:38 PM)kyle reese 2 Wrote: I'll pick it up eventually. The demo started out iffy with mashing square to attack boring trash mobs, but it picked up when you start switching off with Barrett against the Megascorpion boss. I'm curious to try the other party members.

Why are you mashing square? Just hold square and Cloud will auto combo. All you should be worrying about is blocking, dodging, and when to use use abilities or items.

Admittedly with Tifa you have to mash, because holding square makes her do a charged power attack,

If doing all that really bothers you, try switching to "Classic Mode". Every party member attacks and defends automatically, you just pick abilities and items and such.
Git' in under mah belly!
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I definitely remember playing through FF7 and thinking to myself, this would be perfect if only I had less control over things.
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(04-14-2020, 03:57 AM)cd underbelly Wrote:
(04-13-2020, 09:38 PM)kyle reese 2 Wrote: I'll pick it up eventually. The demo started out iffy with mashing square to attack boring trash mobs, but it picked up when you start switching off with Barrett against the Megascorpion boss. I'm curious to try the other party members.

Why are you mashing square? Just hold square and Cloud will auto combo. All you should be worrying about is blocking, dodging, and when to use use abilities or items.

Admittedly with Tifa you have to mash, because holding square makes her do a charged power attack,

If doing all that really bothers you, try switching to "Classic Mode". Every party member attacks and defends automatically, you just pick abilities and items and such.

Classic mode is useless.  Admittedly I mash the button, but that's certainly more of a bad habit if anythiing.

I think the combat is really good, and the game essentially forces you to switch characters and use your other abilities so you're not just mashing the square button.  The core of this game is solid--it's just the story that's the main issue here.
"Why did she do it?"
"Why are you the fucking Police?"

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I'll mash whatever buttons I want!!
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Am awaiting Anjin senpai to join the conversation.
Git' in under mah belly!
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I'm actually loving this so far. It gets so much better after the first 2 hours.

At the mission to go to Plate 5 now. The character stuff has been like a good fun anime movie. The combat keeps opening up with new twists. Tifa feels great to play. I haven't even joined Aerith yet. Looking forward to the rest.
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My advice, make Barrett a healer mage, and Aerith an attack mage. I originally did the opposite as that seemed more in line, stereotypically. But if you upgrade and equip Barret JUST right, he's hands down the best healer in the game. And Aerith with double attack spells for the price of one, thanks to Arcane Ward, oof. Eat double Blizzaga and Thundaga, mother effers.

I'm in chapter 16, and most battles, even bosses, have become a bit trivial, because my party is really OP now. I haven't even gone out of my way to grind either. Just whatever respawning enemies got in my way during sidequests, and completing the optional coliseum $ simulator battles.
Git' in under mah belly!
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Still awesome. I'm savoring it slowly.

Hell House was an obvious "git gud" moment. I had to start really paying attention to positioning and avoiding attack patterns properly. And I found out the timing of spell casting matters. The more you figure out the battle system, the better it gets. (got him on the 4th try)

Through the train graveyard now. Haven't seen Barrett in at least 15 hours, haha.
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I was totally unprepared for Hell House as I had NO elemental attack spells equipped, but I just barely managed to beat it in just one try. It was a slogging battle of attrition, but I won.

Once chapter select became available I replayed Ch. 9 because I missed getting Aerith's second Limit Break the first time around. This time I made sure to have all four elements equipped and was like, oh, well that made things go by A LOT quicker.

I've read that Hell House on Hard difficultlty is a real "Git Gud" moment.
Git' in under mah belly!
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