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The Democratic Party Going Forward
Yes, it would definitely make a lot of sense to prevent undesirable types from soiling the future with their genetic and cultural legacy! Can't see that conversation getting awkward or uncomfortable!
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And that's why it's political poison.

A driver's license isn't discriminatory. Requiring the ability to pass a test along the lines of, "When is it okay to leave a child alone in the car?" doesn't have to be, either.

At the very least, requiring attendance in a -free- basic parenting skills class shouldn't be an inflammatory idea.

And the penalties for ignoring those things don't have to be draconian or dystopian. They could be as simple as losing your ability to claim child-related tax deductions.

Parenting is the one job in our society that requires no skill, effort or desire to obtain. As long as we treat that as our ideal, we're going to have a very difficult time moving forward.
Gamertag: Tweakee
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But the second you introduce ANY kind of government initiated childcare training, you're going to get "Goddamn gummint telling me how to raise MY kid?" You already got howls when Michelle Obama said "Hey, maybe your kids should eat less junk food."
My karmic debt must be huge.

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My blog: An Embarrassment of Rich's
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I'm with farsight and commo on this.

My undergrad degree is in education and I spent some time actually teaching. I witnessed a lot of bad parenting (and this was pretty much an all-white school, as an FYI.)  I've long sort-of-joked that you need a license to drive a moped but any two idiots are allowed to make another human being.

Obviously, there's no realistic or reasonable way to do that without becoming the kind of nation and government that we'd abhor.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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Forget tax deductions, just make any child whose parents won’t submit to the re-education camp be automatically entered as tribute in the hunger games.
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schwartz gets it!

But no, for serious, this is some straight-up eugenics shit, whether it's intended that way or not. As much as I understand the frustration over the degree to which parental negligence or maltreatment is allowed to slide in this country, putting a trigger lock on childbearing works out, in the end, to saying that officially, children with inadequate parents don't deserve to exist. Which would be bone-headed on a societal-benefit level (plenty of amazing people came out of really shitty backgrounds and the world would absolutely be poorer without them,) and is ethically monstrous in any case.

(On top of which, any such system would be wildly exploitable in terms of the prejudices that it could be used to enforce - if people have trouble just registering to vote in predominantly poor or black districts, imagine how much bullshit the people in charge of granting them reproductive licenses could get up to.)

It's not "political poison" because it's a good idea phrased poorly. It's political poison because it's a horrible fucking idea.
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Horrible and yes, evil.

Children of negligent parents aren’t going to be any better off if you make those households poorer.
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(01-12-2020, 12:31 PM)commodorejohn Wrote: schwartz gets it!

But no, for serious, this is some straight-up eugenics shit, whether it's intended that way or not. As much as I understand the frustration over the degree to which parental negligence or maltreatment is allowed to slide in this country, putting a trigger lock on childbearing works out, in the end, to saying that officially, children with inadequate parents don't deserve to exist. Which would be bone-headed on a societal-benefit level (plenty of amazing people came out of really shitty backgrounds and the world would absolutely be poorer without them,) and is ethically monstrous in any case.

(On top of which, any such system would be wildly exploitable in terms of the prejudices that it could be used to enforce - if people have trouble just registering to vote in predominantly poor or black districts, imagine how much bullshit the people in charge of granting them reproductive licenses could get up to.)

It's not "political poison" because it's a good idea phrased poorly. It's political poison because it's a horrible fucking idea.



It isn't "eugenics" because in the ideal world that will never exist, race, religion, or income doesn't even enter into the conversation. It's more a matter of "can you give this child a reasonable chance to succeed in the world?" (in this world, income goes a long way with that; the ideal world would have a commitment to public education and universal health care, possibly universal basic income)

A Hawaiian shirt is like a cash gift - always appropriate
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Sorry, still not buying that. A. if we're constructing fantasy utopian systems for worlds that don't exist and never will, I'd like to ride into work on a flying horse and be able to summon cats out of extradimensional storage at will, and B. you're still denying children the right to exist because of their parents' inadequacies. And going back to A. - if you're going to assume that any such system would involve providing for basic needs as part of people's fundamental human rights, why not just do all that because it's the right thing to do and not get into ethically monstrous predictive analysis of whether it'll "pay off" for any individual prospective child?
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By that logic, every time you masturbate, you're denying children the right to exist. You monster.

At some point, the human race will need to try to exert some amount of influence on how the next generation turns out. Currently, we're trapped in a quagmire where any attempt to do so is painted as an atrocity, and any previous attempts to do so (like public education) are being attacked and torn down.

My mom runs a daycare, and she has to attend many hours of classes every year to maintain her license. The parents at her daycare have far more influence on how their kids turn out, and most of them are getting their parental knowledge through Facebook.

I'm not pushing for specific plan - if I had one that I thought could get past a parent's sacrosanct right to destroy their children, I'd be a politician. But at some point, as a society we're going to have to become open to a debate on how best to train people to be parents. You have to go through a training period to work at McDonalds. "Just winging it" is not a solid plan when children's lives are at stake.
Gamertag: Tweakee
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Can we go back to talking about how candidates don't actually win primaries? Because that's the most impressive bit of mental gymnastics I've seen in a while.

[attachment=4333]
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You can toss out 4 of the 10 Dem examples above, as 3 were incumbents and Gore was essentially unopposed.

Obama won Iowa 16-15-14, and lost NH. All those states did was indicate it'd be close. Clinton lost both, and did okay.

Take away the incumbents, and Iowa predicted 2 presidents and 5 losers. NH predicted 1 President and 6 losers.

I'd say we'd better hope that those two states DON'T predict our nominee.
Gamertag: Tweakee
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In other Chicago news:

https://mobile.twitter.com/chicagosmayor...3635676161

   
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Booker just dropped out of the POTUS-race:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/13/us/po...s-out.html
"These guys are pros, Michael. They're gonna push the tension 'till the last possible moment before they strip."

 
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Was he actually running, or was that a rumor?
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He made a statement on some candidates complaining about time on the playing field the other day and about three places I listen to seperately said "..Says the guy everyone forgot was running until just now." or words to that effect.
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Him cutting Rosario loose in 5...4...3...2...
"These guys are pros, Michael. They're gonna push the tension 'till the last possible moment before they strip."

 
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Actually I hope he at least gets to keep Rosario, that would be my concern if I was him.

[Image: c8d0a3f7bf55ff568f794369137174f8.jpg]
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The joke is Rosario is leaving because she was a beard, not a real gf
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Where were you 20 years ago?!?

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/elizabeth...0ec3d994fc

Quote:Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) has said that she would wipe out student loan debt for a vast majority of the nation’s borrowers. On Tuesday, she unveiled a plan to do it starting day one of her presidency. 

Lawyers at the Project on Predatory Student Lending confirm the legality in a letter released with the plan, writing that through the Higher Education Act, Congress gave the secretary of education power to “create and to cancel or modify debt owed under federal student loan programs.” 

In April, Warren announced her intention to cancel up to $50,000 in debt for 42 million people ― or 95% of borrowers.

It's a weird country we live in where that doesn't translate immediately into 42 million votes (or every other candidate immediately saying, "Yeah, I was gonna do that, too!").
Gamertag: Tweakee
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But who will think of the predatory lenders?!?!?!?!
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It's a weird country we live in where that doesn't translate immediately into 42 million votes (or every other candidate immediately saying, "Yeah, I was gonna do that, too!").



Most Americans labour under the fear that someone, somewhere, is getting a free ride they don't get.

A Hawaiian shirt is like a cash gift - always appropriate
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Yeah, billionaires.
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(01-02-2020, 10:43 PM)history buff Wrote: Have people forgotten Sanders had a heart attack not to long ago. I will vote for any of these Dem. nominees in the general, but if Sanders gets the nomination how  is the Right and Trump not going to beat his "health and stamina" not to mention his heart attack straight into the ground.

(01-14-2020, 07:45 PM)bradito Wrote: Yeah, billionaires.

And most of the middle class who "had to work for it."
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It's the last debate before the primaries start, which means...

Please implode, Biden. Please implode, Biden.
Gamertag: Tweakee
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I guess Markey's considered too progressive, so establishment Democrats are fine with this primary:

https://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/2020...orsements/

Quote:To kick off 2020, Joe Kennedy is ramping up his campaign to unseat incumbent Senator Ed Markey—and today, the 4th district rep’s campaign shared a long list of formal endorsements for the candidate from prominent House Democrats.

The endorsements, from a wide range of Kennedy’s colleagues, cite his strong stances on health care, civil rights, immigration reform and other critical issues. The biggest name on the list? Georgia congressman and civil rights legend John Lewis.

“In the years that I have known Joe Kennedy I have seen him stand up and fight—time and again—for the suffering, the struggling and the silenced,” Lewis said in a statement. “At a moment of profound national crisis, Joe offers our country the kind of powerful moral leadership it needs. He is a clear voice for justice and dignity in our rising generation of public servants. I am proud to endorse his run for the U.S. Senate.”

Also on the list was co-chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, Congressman Mark Pocan, and the Caucus’s chair emeriti, Congressman Raul Grijalva.

“For as long as I have known him, Congressman Kennedy has been fighting to dismantle the stubborn, structural inequities that leave too many Americans behind,” said Pocan (WI-2). “As a proud, progressive voice in Washington, Joe has been a tireless champion for social and economic justice. From fighting for mental health parity, to protecting the rights of transgender Americans and advocating for a more inclusive economy, Joe offers the moral clarity and energized leadership that our country and party need today more than ever before.”

Kennedy collected endorsements from several other key groups in the House, including the co-chairs of the LGBTQ Equality Caucus, Rep. David Cicilline and Rep. Sean Patrick Maloney; members of the Congressional Black Caucus, including Rep. Eddie Bernice Johnson, Rep. Joyce Beatty, and Rep. Marc Veasey; and several members of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, including Chair Rep. Joaquin Castro, Rep. Juan Vargas, Rep. Filomen Vela, Rep. Linda Sanchez, and Rep. Gil Cisneros.
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Pete! If someone asks if your lack of experience is an issue, tell them to look at the fuckstick in office! Goddammit.

Anyways, thoughts?

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Well, Biden didn't drop an N-bomb, so we'll just have to hope that people pay closer attention to him, or to how little Obama has spoken of him.
Gamertag: Tweakee
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This game that Warren is playing with the assistance of CNN is vile and disgusting. I don't like Bernie Sanders but there is plenty of video evidence all the way back to the 80s to prove that he has always been a proponent of more women being in politics.

Its also pretty clear at this point Nancy delayed the articles of impeachment to hamstring every candidate but Biden and Buttigieg during the New Hampshire and Iowa caucuses. Way to go Dems, you just lost all the Bernie Bros. again.

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Lots of progressive folks are fans of both Bernie and Warren and CNN seemed to be working overtime to fuck all that up so they could get some spicy hand-shake snub drama to discuss on the aftershow analysis. Please God, let this primary end already.
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https://theslot.jezebel.com/joe-biden-li...1841060920

Quote:Joe Biden—who somehow continues to be the frontrunner in the Democratic primary despite repeatedly lying about his opposition to the war in Iraq and evincing a decades-long passion for cutting Social Security—also continues to be on his bullshit about everything from his support for the Hyde Amendment to his attempts to gut contraception coverage in the Affordable Care Act.

Even worse than how he's ramping up the lying to near-Trump levels is how he's caught Trump in the world-salad category. His responses in the linked NYT interview are frighteningly foggy.

When I previously theorized that a Trump with better people whispering in his ear would be a better President, I didn't mean to suggest we should find out!
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Quote: His responses in the linked NYT interview are frighteningly foggy.

[attachment=4361]
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Get a grip, man. NO ONE is anywhere near Trump's level of lying, and conflating his total contempt for reality with your standard issue "politician obscures unflattering parts of their records" shit is a big part of how we ended up with him in the first place.
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Hush Schwartz, you’re ruining the Bernie narrative.
If you're happy, you're not paying attention.

Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny: 
Glad that you guys worked that out amongst yourselves.

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The NYT interview is linked above (or just go directly there). They have to correct his version of history multiple times, and not for 'obscuring the narrative', but for stating the opposite of what he actually did.

He seems quite coherent when talking about personal issues and stories... then frequently turns into a rambling mess when forced to discuss policy.

Since it appears it has to be said again: I'm not equalizing Biden and Trump. If Biden's the nominee, it won't be an inspirational vote, but I'll be marking his dot as quickly as my hand will move.

That said, it's worrisome seeing so many of the same senility-adjacent traits pop up in both men's speech and behavior. At least Biden benefits from not having his core personality be that of a phenomenally stupid, lazy asshole.
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