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INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion
From what I know, the story meetings for previous Indy movies consisted of Lucas, Spielberg and their potential screenwriter (though not always all three) spitballing ideas, resulting in an outline that the screenwriter would go off and turn into a script.

Perhaps I am reading into things, but this comes off more as Lucasfilm processing INDY 5 through a committee.  It evokes the image of an assembly line.  Which I am sure is the reality of how Disney tentpoles are made, but I was kind of hoping Spielberg, with his clout, would get carte blanche with this one and be able to develop it outside "the system".  Perhaps this development is in fact the Beard's initiative, but I take it as a signal that he has become less focused on the project rather than more.
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If they're actually going through with this, just de-age him MCU style.
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I am totally against this idea for reasons I've already stated, but for the sake of playing ball I would say that whatever Scorsese pulls off with THE IRISHMAN is probably going to be the more relevant reference point.
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With Ingruber right there?
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(10-04-2018, 02:07 PM)fatherdude Wrote: Perhaps this development is in fact the Beard's initiative, but I take it as a signal that he has become less focused on the project rather than more.

I don't think there's any question of that. If Spielberg was really focused on this project, it would be filming next year instead of WEST SIDE STORY.
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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Right or wrong, my impression is whatever was driving Spielberg to do Indy 5 has died down and he's just going through the motions till the inevitable press release announcing a new director and actor taking over.

He could will this into existence if he felt like it and.. I just get the vibe he's already moved on.

The real ending to Big...
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That is, unfortunately, kind of my sense, as well.

There was a time when I truly thought he felt he NEEDED to do the movie to make up for CRYSTAL SKULL, but I'm not sure of that anymore.

I think Disney had better think very carefully about bringing on new filmmakers and a new actor after the reception of SOLO, too.
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(10-04-2018, 02:54 PM)filmnerdjamie Wrote: Right or wrong, my impression is whatever was driving Spielberg to do Indy 5 has died down and he's just going through the motions till the inevitable press release announcing a new director and actor taking over.

He could will this into existence if he felt like it and.. I just get the vibe he's already moved on.

He's an old man.  Directing on-location action films is a young, hungry director's game.  

Let Ingruber, Pratt, or Elba take-over and do a reboot with a new director.
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I don't want an INDY movie without Ford/Spielberg - it's okay to let stories go! - but SOLO had a lot of things working against it, and I think chief among them was the fact the audience saw that character get murdered with a lightsaber two years earlier. Sort of takes the fun out of an adventurous origin story.
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(10-04-2018, 04:54 PM)The Dark Shape Wrote: I don't want an INDY movie without Ford/Spielberg - it's okay to let stories go! - but SOLO had a lot of things working against it, and I think chief among them was the fact the audience saw that character get murdered with a lightsaber two years earlier. Sort of takes the fun out of an adventurous origin story.

Yes, also that Solo was an unneeded origin story, rather than a proper Han Solo movie.
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I agree with others that the possible "writers room" bit with Disney is at least somewhat disconcerting. I tend to think Spielberg wields more than enough power on this to squash ideas that he flatly rejects, so I'm not exactly terrified but it's something to consider. On the other hand having a lot of voices on this isn't necessarily the worst possibility when it comes to creating a film that satisfies diehard Indy fans while being a smashing success for Lucasfilm. In some ways I think the pressure is now higher on this because of what happened to "Solo" earlier this year. Every Lucasfilm production has more riding on it at the moment than they did only six months ago. So with that in mind I'm tending to think that Disney knows that a syndrome of "too many chefs" is something to avoid, which is why I imagine Frank Marshall refused to simply call the location where this is taking place a "writers room."

Based on a few different interviews with Spielberg in the past twelve months during press blitzes for "The Post" and "Ready Player One" it seemed by the way he talked that at the very least a general outline had been established and he and Harrison Ford were ostensibly rather enthusiastic about key elements. That's a positive sign even if it's not a slam dunk argument for the film turning out to be golden. Something must have happened in firming up the screenplay because the project stalled and David Koepp was replaced, perhaps largely because he's busy with his own projects for the foreseeable future.

The fact that the film was once again delayed a year does not conclusively mean that Spielberg's heart is not in it. Sure, it might mean that, but couldn't people surmise that if Spielberg said, "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!" and rushed this into production when, apparently, their ducks are not presently all in a row yet that *that* meant his heart was not in it, rather than the opposite? My reading of the situation is that Disney and Spielberg want to nail this for their own respective reasons, so the collaboration between parties makes sense from the angle that firstly Disney wants a film that wraps up the Ford-as-Indy/Spielberg-helmed era to launch into their inevitable rebooting of the franchise down the road and Spielberg wants to end his era of Indiana Jones, at least, on a significantly stronger note than "Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull."

Last thing I'd say at this point in time is that I'm guessing the film does indeed happen. In fact, if "Episode IX" is in any way a disappointment or even perceived as such, the pressure on Disney to deliver hugely with this--which, while Lucasfilm, is at least a distinct franchise apart from the "Star Wars" brand--will be almost incalculable. Maybe that leads to a disastrously messy production, or maybe it leads to them, while assisting Spielberg, also giving him some sort of relative free rein to try to effectively 're-"Last Crusade" this whole film series--by which I mean, make a logical and exceedingly solid concluding chapter, which of course "Last Crusade" definitely is.
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Something of a "soft update" from Harrison Ford:

http://theplaylist.net/harrison-ford-ind...-20181109/

Quote:Harrison Ford was recently honored by the SAG-AFTRA Foundation along with actress-singer Lady Gaga. Ford received the Artists Inspiration Award. The award honors those who use their status to advance humanitarian and philanthropic causes. However, when Variety caught up with Ford on the red carpet, the topic of discussion wasn’t any charitable efforts. No, it was all “Indiana Jones 5.”

When asked about the status of ‘Indy 5,’ which was recently delayed until 2021 after Disney decided to move in a new direction with the script, Ford didn’t give too much of an update. “…We’ve got a script in production that we are all very excited about, and [I’m] looking forward to it,” said the legendary actor.


Of course, the main source of debate about “Indiana Jones 5,” which will see Steven Spielberg return one last time to the franchise, is whether or not the film will introduce another actor to take over the mantle. This was attempted in the last film, ‘Crystal Skull,’ with Shia LaBeouf in line to take over the franchise. However, once that film fizzled out with fans, any future plans were scrapped.

Most recently, in a bit of fan-casting and speculation, the name Chris Pratt gets thrown around as a possible replacement for Ford. Obviously, as he’s shown in films like “Jurassic World” and “Guardians of the Galaxy,” Pratt has the sort of Harrison Ford-esque style down. But when Ford was asked on the red carpet about Pratt’s possible involvement, the actor scoffed and as he walked away said, “I think it’s him or me.”


So, fans of the ‘Indiana Jones’ franchise shouldn’t expect a surprise Chris Pratt announcement anytime soon, if ever.


As of now, “Indiana Jones 5” has the expected release date of July 9, 2021. But considering that’s more than two years away, a lot can change. So, we’ll just have to wait and see.
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Both Karen Allen and John Rhys-Davies have given their standard "I haven't heard anything, but I'd love to be involved" line in recent interviews.  It wouldn't surprise me if they both came back -- and they probably should, given that this is a finale, although they have to find that balance between a cameo that's too slight to justify (which happened with Sallah on CRYSTAL SKULL), and stretching a cameo's worth of substance into a key supporting role (which happened with Marion on CRYSTAL SKULL).

Right now, Spielberg is gearing up to shoot WEST SIDE STORY in the summer, so the absolute best we could hope for is that he dives straight into INDY 5 in the winter of this year or the spring of next year.  Meanwhile, Ford (76), Kahn (83) and Williams (86) continue to collect birthdays.

When it comes to how Ford is going to fare in this, the name that's giving me hope is Ian McShane.  He is a good point of reference because he is the same age as Ford, and he's still kicking ass.  This spring alone you'll get to see him in the DEADWOOD movie, AMERICAN GODS Season 2 and JOHN WICK 3.  And these aren't "I'm grateful to have work" gigs.  They're good roles.  And if McShane can still be a powerhouse as Al Swearengen, why can't Ford deliver as Indy?  I wouldn't drag him behind a truck anymore, but he'd still work great leading the way down torchlit corridors, telling fools not to touch anything, then having to bail them out when they do.  In my head, an Indy in his 70s works best as a Van Helsing-esque figure.

They'll probably just have him meeting the Beatles, though.
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Al Swearengen isn't going to be using a whip to swing across any ravines, though.

I guess if anyone can figure it out, it's Spielberg. I remain hopeful that the reason they're doing this is to make up for the last one, and if they can't do that, they'll probably cut bait. But who knows?
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I think there's a way to adjust for the character's age so that he doesn't have to leap onto moving tanks that still authentically feels like Indy.  The nice thing about the character is that even when he was in his prime he was still generally outmatched and had to trick stronger enemies into propellers and rock crushers.  Yes, he engaged in a lot of two-fisted action as well, but I don't think having to sacrifice that stuff totally capsizes the thing - moreover, it could be made into an advantage - if it's exploited correctly.

One of the better gags in CRYSTAL SKULL was when Indy instigated the fight in the diner between the greasers and the jocks.  Any movie with an older Indy should have been wall-to-wall with that stuff.  I think if they double-down on Indy as wily and Archimedean it would be the best way of embracing the fact that he's more professor than adventurer these days.  I don't think that should mean they have to subordinate the set pieces, but just gear them more toward escape than brawn.  A lot of the classic set pieces seem to function that way anyhow.
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I think we are passed the "Indy has got a walker now" jokes and Spielberg should definitely embrace the age to make Indy more vulnerable. We love Vulnerable Indy, he's not a fucking superhero, he's just scraping by at the skin of his teeth. Go a bit beyond the pale of say, Indy misses his mark with the whip, that's just a lazy old age reference. Spielberg needs to milk the age for the stakes. Just make Indy hurt more.

That said, if Ford can keep about the same age look-wise as he was in The Force Awakens it would be preferred and not seem so ridiculous that he's finding himself in these fantastic situations.
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If Spielberg still has any clout left in the system he should really make an Indy film that focuses so much less on the whipcracking and stuntwork and show an Indy who has accepted his age and has accepted he can no longer do the things he’s famous for. That way the audience will accept it. Indy’s an old dude now, that doesn’t dismiss his achievements earlier in life, but part of ongoing character growth is accepting who you are. This Indy film should be more of a psychological horror where Indy can use his knowledge, cunning and wits.

Trying to convince an older audience that an aging Indy can still punch out Nazis and swing from a whip when the reality is most of us who grew up watching him now have achy backs just from sitting too long stretches the plausibility a bit too far. Similarly younger audiences are going to be lining up around the block to see Grandpa Jones arthritically shamble about either.

Just make it age-appropriate - make it absolutely terrifying and something you wouldn’t expect from an Indy film.

The best aged Indy movie we ever got was Pixar’s Up.
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Time for the Logan of Indiana Jones movies.

INDY.
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I want to see some 65 year old tart with "luv you" written on her eye lids in his class..
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Would you settle for a 38-year old dude from the Midwest?
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Why not..
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(01-14-2019, 04:17 PM)fraid uh noman Wrote: I want to see some 65 year old tart with "luv you" written on her eye lids in his class..

How about a 74 year old tart?

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(01-14-2019, 07:34 PM)Mike Wrote:
(01-14-2019, 04:17 PM)fraid uh noman Wrote: I want to see some 65 year old tart with "luv you" written on her eye lids in his class..

How about a 74 year old tart?

[Image: oscars-2018-helen-mirren-nipples-picture...255903.jpg]

The de-aging/aging tech they've been using on J-Law is really incredible.
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(01-12-2019, 02:37 PM)fatherdude Wrote: Both Karen Allen and John Rhys-Davies have given their standard "I haven't heard anything, but I'd love to be involved" line in recent interviews.  It wouldn't surprise me if they both came back -- and they probably should, given that this is a finale, although they have to find that balance between a cameo that's too slight to justify (which happened with Sallah on CRYSTAL SKULL), and stretching a cameo's worth of substance into a key supporting role (which happened with Marion on CRYSTAL SKULL).

Right now, Spielberg is gearing up to shoot WEST SIDE STORY in the summer, so the absolute best we could hope for is that he dives straight into INDY 5 in the winter of this year or the spring of next year.  Meanwhile, Ford (76), Kahn (83) and Williams (86) continue to collect birthdays.

When it comes to how Ford is going to fare in this, the name that's giving me hope is Ian McShane.  He is a good point of reference because he is the same age as Ford, and he's still kicking ass.  This spring alone you'll get to see him in the DEADWOOD movie, AMERICAN GODS Season 2 and JOHN WICK 3.  And these aren't "I'm grateful to have work" gigs.  They're good roles.  And if McShane can still be a powerhouse as Al Swearengen, why can't Ford deliver as Indy?  I wouldn't drag him behind a truck anymore, but he'd still work great leading the way down torchlit corridors, telling fools not to touch anything, then having to bail them out when they do.  In my head, an Indy in his 70s works best as a Van Helsing-esque figure.

They'll probably just have him meeting the Beatles, though.

As long as they keep Harrison Ford away from airplanes I imagine he'll be okay. He's in great shape for his age, not surprisingly, and he eats boatloads of white fish and vegetables. Evidently works out every other day. 

He brought it in Crystal Skull. The movie had some major flaws, no question, but Ford was not among them, honestly. 

If Disney sticks to their guns and Spielberg sticks to his guns, odds are he wraps West Side Story in terms of actual shooting by mid-autumn at worst and is probably confident enough in the postproduction process that he can begin preproduction on this in approximately one year from now for a spring-summer 2020 shoot for its as-of-now-still-official July 2021 release date. 

I do, however, just simply hope that John Williams and Michael Kahn eat their vegetables and take their B-12 supplements.
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I always forget that Helen Mirren is "elderly."
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Elderly my ass. When Mirren smiles her eyes sparkle like a naughty 24 y/o.
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Speaking of Williams, did he get out of the hospital or what?
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Williams is doing fine.

Supposedly he starts on IX in the next month or so.
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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Thank god.
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This is why Taylor Hackford has won life.

Proof of Life indeed.
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Helen Mirren is a bonafide GILF.
Git' in under mah belly!
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In the continuing absence of meaningful news, how about a recap of the INDY 5 development timeline to illustrate just how eternally backburned this project is?

2008-2012 – Spielberg and Ford diplomatically express an openness to a fifth film, but say tradition dictates that the process begins with Lucas finding a story.  For his part, Lucas says he’s “working on it,” but complains that it’s difficult to find an artifact that satisfies his internal criteria, and also points out that other commitments are dividing his attention.  Overall impression: nothing is accomplished.

2012-2015 – Lucasfilm is sold to Disney in the Fall of 2012, after which Lucas says he’s settling into a state of quasi-retirement, putting his involvement in any upcoming film into question.  At one point he openly jokes about how he’s supposed to be working on an Indy plot, but isn’t.  Overall impression: Lucas is possibly even less focused on INDY 5 during this period than he was in the years immediately following CRYSTAL SKULL.

March 2016 – The project is finally announced by Disney.  Ford is starring, Spielberg is directing, Koepp is writing.  Release date is July 19th, 2019.

October 2016 – In an interview with Collider, Koepp says of INDY 5: “I really like our idea; I think it’s clean and simple and makes a lot of sense, and I feel like the writing is going really well.”  He also expresses the hope that Spielberg could shoot in October 2017.  Lucas’s involvement is ambiguous: Koepp says he’s had no contact with George, while elsewhere Spielberg insists he would never make an Indy film without George.  Best guess is that Lucas’s Executive Producer credit will be largely decorative, or at least that his responsibilities will not extend to direct creative input this time.

April 2017 – The release date of INDY 5 is pushed back a year, to July 10th, 2020.  Jon Favreau’s THE LION KING takes its original slot on the calendar.

September 2017 – In an interview with EW, Koepp says they now have a script “we’re mostly happy with,” and believes it could be Spielberg’s follow-up to THE POST.  That same month, GQ does a profile of Harrison Ford where Ford says the latest draft of the script was available for him to read and expressed the hope that they would shoot in the second half of 2018.

January 2018 – The trades report that Spielberg is deciding between INDY 5 and WEST SIDE STORY as his next film.  The Hollywood Reporter says INDY 5 is going first, with the intention to shoot it in 2019, leaving open the possibility that Spielberg might find a smaller project to squeeze in beforehand.

March 2018 – In his acceptance speech at the Rakuten TV Empire Awards, Spielberg volunteers that he would begin shooting INDY 5 in the UK in April 2019.  He confirms that it is the next film he will direct “unless I find something small to do this year.”  Despite this, he talks about INDY 5 as if it’s a mystery to him: “I can say that whatever it is is going to be really good.  I don’t know much beyond that.  We’re still working on the story and the script.  It’ll be in the sixties, something late in the sixties.”

June 2018 – Koepp is out, Kasdan is in.  Release date pushed another full year, to July 9th, 2021.  Spielberg moves up WEST SIDE STORY, making it his next film instead.  

October 2018 – Frank Marshall assures that everyone remains committed to the project and explains the delay with vague bromides about how telling a good story is important.  Confirming that Lucas has “moved on,” he says that he’s “trying to get a writers room together,” then says “I dunno if you’d call it a writers room.  Gathering info.”  His non-answers suggest we’re back to square one.

Summer 2019 - WEST SIDE STORY will go into production.  INDY 5 will either follow, or Fate will finally exact its toll after being fucked with for too long.

What jumps out to me is that there appears to have been some amount of heat in the late 2017/early 2018 arena, and then that momentum abruptly got reversed.  They went from a script they were “mostly happy with” to what certainly comes across like a reset six months later.  Seems like there’s a story there, although I guess we won’t get it until after the movie’s out.  My money’s on Frank Darabont putting a magnet on Koepp’s hard drive.

The open question is whether Kasdan was brought on to continue Koepp’s work or start from scratch. Koepp was on this project for two full years, suggesting that even without Lucas in the mix, Spielberg and Ford are not easily pleased.  (At least, one hopes that's where the resistance is coming from, and not The Disney Micromanagement Division.) Which is no bad thing, but I wonder if Koepp was really kicked off or if he himself had enough.  He went from INDY 5 to prepping YOU SHOULD HAVE LEFT, so he might have been more interested in directing his next film than continuing to try to satisfy people he had failed to satisfy for two years already.

It seems like this movie’s fate has to be decided this year, one way or another.
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If we don't have any movement by very shortly after WEST SIDE STORY wraps shooting, I don't think the movie is going to happen.
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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It's hilarious because I was reading about M. Night Shyamalan earlier this morning due to Glass's release. That brought me to a review of Signs that I thought was well-reasoned. I then read about Shyamalan being approached to write the INDY 4 screenplay circa late 2000-early 2001 but in a post-Signs release interview Shyamalan said that while he met with Spielberg, Lucas and Ford individually on separate occasions, he could not get them to focus on the project much and their highly busy schedules made it nearly impossible, and the more time he spent trying to put together a script the more sure he was that he was wrong for it. That realization evidently came with great sadness for him as he said that Raiders of the Lost Ark was more than any other one film responsible for making him want to grow up and become a filmmaker, so he loved the "circle" he would have closed by having a huge hand in the creation of a fourth Indy film.

And because of that I read about all of the times Indy 4 was brought up, dismissed, hashed out between Lucas and Spielberg, Lucas wanting aliens and the crystal skulls, Spielberg being lukewarm on it, the different ideas regarding a kid of Indy's, all of the false starts, delays, etc. After that I read about Indy 5's development and wow it's just as crazy as Indy 4's.

I think the ultimate bottom lines with Indy 5 are

(a) Spielberg seemed once again "done" with Indiana Jones after Indy 4, much as he regarded The Last Crusade as the movie series's finale in the late '80s, even though he stated once Indy 4 was released in 2008 that if the people wanted more that he and Ford (and Lucas at the time) would be up for more, but some time around the point Spielberg was making Bridge of Spies with Tom Hanks Spielberg's personal hunger to make one last Indy adventure with Ford perked up significantly, and started to seemingly turn the heat up on Ford publicly by saying he wanted to make another Indy movie with him in the near future and before Ford reaches the age of 80, multiple times, such as here: http://www.today.com/popculture/steven-s...-80-t58841 and I specifically recall him telling Ford when he was on stage at some awards show around that time that he was looking forward to the reunion for one last Indy and

(b) the craziness of Disney buying Lucasfilm doubtless both initially delayed things on this front for a while but somewhere around early 2016, coming off of Spielberg expressing more and more public enthusiasm for making Indy 5 it became perspicuous that Disney wants this film made.

So the borderline schizophrenic nature of Indy 5's development in myriad ways makes more sense than Indy 4's.

I'm relieved that they did not rush this. As long as Spielberg spends a good half an hour or so a day on working out what he wants from the screenplay while he fulfills all of his obligations concerning West Side Story's development and preproduction rather than not fully knowing what Indy 5 is going to be. Obviously he is being furtive but still, this needs to be a good final chapter, and I suspect Disney is fine with the delays so long as the film comes out for the 40-year anniversary of Raiders in 2021 and a few short years later they can (and inevitably will) launch their reboot to try to milk this property as dry as they are milking Star Wars.
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