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What the fuck!? The thread formally known as "I haven't heard a single compelling reason for Britain to leave the EU."
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike's Pants View Post


I'm very much remain, but like I said, it's based on my very limited base knowledge.

All I can go on is a list of widely debunked Leave stats and the terrifyingly vague plan (or lack thereof) for Britain if we leave. Nothing about it adds up.

Everytime "take back control" was uttered Khan would reply with "We need a plan not a slogan".

But judging by my Facebook, overheard train natterings and water cooler chats, it looks like I'll be needing a Visa to go to Disneyland Paris next year.


If it's any consolation, campaigning on the street suggests it is fairly evenly balanced. My worry is that since Jo Cox death the Brexiters will now form the silent majority that tends to tip these things one way or another.



I sympathise with you about the quality of information. In many ways, I agree with people saying it isn't a decision that should be left to the electorate directly. I mean, I know about this stuff because it formed a significant part of my degree, afforded me the opportunity to study and work in and around the hubs of the EU, and I pretty much practice some kind of EU law every day. Even with that, I am struggling to break down and parse all the information, and more importantly misinformation, being bandied about.



I hope this sounds the death knell for referenda, but I suspect if there is a high turnout it will encourage populist issue-mongering in the future.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by flint View Post
 

I'm a Londoner, work in the City so I'm surrounded by Remainers, I'm one of them and debate is few and far between for the most part. The missus is about 80/20 on the remain side, but still hasn't made her mind up.



However, every member of my family and every member of hers (all out of London) is passionately Brexit. If Remain wins the day, it'll be London+Wales+Scotland+Northern Ireland vs seemingly everyone else in England. And I don't like those odds.


A lot of the home counties are seemingly evenly split. Plus the big metropolitan areas like Birmingham, Manchester and Liverpool veer more towards staying in. The larger urban areas in the north are too, like Newcastle and Sunderland. But I agree with you - it does feel like the metropolitan areas and the smaller nations within the UK (less bothered by appeals to some bygone halcyon age, perhaps) versus the rest.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike's Pants View Post

Boris just got a standing ovation for his closing speech in which he lambasts the Leave campaign's "scare mongering", claims Brussels underestimates Britain and shouting about our Independence Day.

President Whitmore he aint.

Did he then whip out a guitar and try playing it above the capo?





Bell end.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Bain View Post
 

Did he then whip out a guitar and try playing it above the capo?





Bell end.


That's hilarious.



This is my favourite Boris stinger of the week...





Flint, not sure if this offers comfort but here is the YouGov map of voter location based on aggregated preferences across all their polls this campaign. Lots of blue for leave but the more densely populated areas tending towards remain.



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/pol...93886.html



Oh, and the latest tin foil hat theory flooding through the Brexit camp is that MI5 are going to rig the vote.



Honestly, when you take a step back and compare the level of enlightened rationality of one side to the other it is a national disgrace that we've come this close to actually leaving the EU.

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I like that he said that if they do leave, and the economy tanks, then he'll go on TV and apologise.



Well, THAT'S ok then.



As long as he's really, really sorry.

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Love this tweet because of how, apparently, you shouldn't trust anyone's opinion if they are pro remain, and also because of Schrodinger's Immigrant which is just amazing.



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AOne thing I have definitely learned from this exercise in direct democracy. Scottish women should run the country.
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ADavidson really was fantastic, very impassioned. You could feel the frustration come through from the Remain speakers. The consensus seems to be that it wouldn't really have changed any minds or helped the undecided. I really have no idea what's going to happen tomorrow.

Seriously though, if you have iplayer watch it and take a shot for every "take back control" "Australian style points system" or "as a Mother".
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AHaha. I think my liver is going to take enough of a battering on Friday as it is!
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What the Rise Of Trump and Brexit Have In Common

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Good article, and quite correct, although I don't think anything he says will be surprising to anyone following the more literate press over here for the last nine months.



What is helicopter money? Sounds even more suspiciously like printing money. Have we got past the point now seeing that as something history teaches us is a bad idea?

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It's printing money once, and never doing it again and more importantly, distributing it randomly or evenly amongst the populace, not funding Tax Breaks or anything.



The argument is that the inflationary impact (if you trust the government will never do it again) would be minimal and absorbed because everyone's wages stay the same, we just all get a 1K bonus one day. The next month, everyone's wages and so forth will go back to normal, so Sainbury's won't raise the price of bread (for example) to accommodate the extra cash in the economy because it will just get absorbed/spent in a hundred thousand different ways and next month, people will only have the same amount of money to spend on bread. However, the hundred thousand different ways stimulate the economy, kickstarting it back to life.



The theory rests on convincing the economists and banks and money makers that this is a once in a lifetime, never to be repeated event.



It's one of those theories that probably doesn't work in practice, but the principle can be be used in other economic theories (such as Quantative Easing, which is essentially borrowing new money off myself, but promising to pay it back at some point... honest).

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post
 

What the Rise Of Trump and Brexit Have In Common




Simple. Things are a mess right now. It's the system's fault. So when someone comes and rails against the system people looking for easy solutions will support them without even considering the more often than not correct solutions others offer. Simply because they represent the system. Because the system is bad and every solution borne from it is also bad. While every solution nominally against it is good, no matter how boneheaded.



See Syriza in Greece, Podemos in Spain, the various nationalist douchelords in the former Eastern Block in addition to Trump, Sanders, and the Brexit potatoheads.

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A[quote name="flint" url="/community/t/155548/i-havent-heard-a-single-compelling-reason-for-britain-to-leave-the-eu/100#post_4087512"]It's printing money once, and never doing it again and more importantly, distributing it randomly or evenly amongst the populace, not funding Tax Breaks or anything.[/quote]
Yeah, I remember that back when it was the 2008 stimulus check. Didn't seem to make much of a difference.

Though I suppose it's interesting as an example of trickle-up economics.
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A'Fantasy island of Little England'. Sums up the Brexit case. Waverers should listen to the 'Historians for Remain' group. Dan Snow, Niall Ferguson, Simon Schuma. Many others.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/06/17/welc...e-england/
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AWell two guys I've spoken to today are going to brexit. One is dependant on his job (he's a contractor, so bye in a week) to get a mortgage for a property he bought on spec two years ago that is currently worth 70k more than the mortgage he is laying down. He's confident the economy, our international focused company and his house price will be fine post brexit.

Both are children of immigrants. Wow.

In more positive news, the In guy handing out leaflets at the tube station looked happier than the Out guy.
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AAnybody watching Paxo's live debate on channel 4 at 9pm?
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ADoubt it, to be honest. Are you?

I'm not a Paxman fan and I don't think I'll be able to stop myself smashing my TV screen whenever Farage opens his mouth. I'm going to bed early with a sleeping pill, voting as soon as I have breakfast then burying myself in work until it's all over.
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AYeah, I think so. I don't mind Paxman and I'm interested in seeing how the Remain team deal with Farage's bullshit and fearmongering.

I'm curious, how would you rate Paxo compared with Robin Day? I only ask because he was my dad!
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A[quote name="Bluelouboyle" url="/community/t/155548/i-havent-heard-a-single-compelling-reason-for-britain-to-leave-the-eu/100#post_4087644"]

I'm curious, how would you rate Paxo compared with Robin Day? I only ask because he was my dad![/quote]

Really? That's amazing.
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AYup. Check out the bizarre line up tonight. Politicians, Historians... whatever. It's Rick Astley vs Selena Scott!

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2016-06-2...ctic-panel
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AFarage has pulled out. I wonder why...
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AProbably dislocated his jaw eating mice.

It's probably been mentioned here but my real worry is apathy from people who probably think we should stay but can't quite be bothered. It's so much more exciting to vote for a change than to, essentially, vote for nothing to happen.

I have no idea what's goinh to happen tomorrow.
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AAnd there's heavy rain forecast. Could help Brexit, unfortunately. More passionate, might make the effort.
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Bookies still 1/3 on us Remaining. Though I had a mate who won a grand on a 7/1 on a Tory majority. So what the fuck do they know?

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A mate of mine sold me on a lovely little fantasy in the pub this evening. Exit wins, economy goes bang, Cameron loses vote of no confidence, Corbyn runs on a re-enter Europe bandwagon, gets elected. First proper socialist in power this century.



Once can dream...



Onto tomorrow, drinkathon anyone? We can watch Children of Men interspersed with election results...

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Shelia Hancock's about to kill it on Channel 4.

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AThis is a mess. Everyone shouting and talking over each other.
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My hope is Europe balks at the reality of a Brexit and comes back with another set of concessions. Foolish, I know, as that would set of a dangerous precedent.



Fingers crossed everyone comes to their senses and Leave are just making all the noise at the moment.



And then Boris Bloody Johnson can get on with being my MP, not my MP when he was mayor, then, not my MP when he's gallavanting round the country and the television studios. I've got potholes in the street to complain about or something!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluelouboyle View Post

This is a mess. Everyone shouting and talking over each other.



Yeah it's complete bollocks. Anyone with even a semblance of a point just gets droned out by low brow bullshit.

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AWhat a farce. I turned over to the football at "We have a question from Katie Price. Katie?" What the fuck is Paxman doing?

Catching Ireland beat Italy improved my mood.
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A[quote name="Mike's Pants" url="/community/t/155548/i-havent-heard-a-single-compelling-reason-for-britain-to-leave-the-eu/120#post_4087653"]
Really? That's amazing.[/quote]

Robin Day was a legend.

Paxman had his moments, but like John Humphreys, once he had his defining moment of (undeserved) popular acclaim, he became a caricature.

I had a feeling the debate would be a shit show even without Farage.
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Wow.



https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/j...o-cox 



Haunting would be the word.

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Some interesting food for thought here:



https://newrepublic.com/article/134521/b...ally-crazy



I'm fascinated by this whole debate, and how it will play out across Europe.

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So I'm looking at YouTube for more opinions/arguments for/against Brexit and am finding some strong stuff pro/con






Having a hard time finding an emotional plea like this for Bremain, but lots of officials like Cameron argueing for it.



This is shaping up to be a referendum on the "Elites" vs. "The Populace"

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