Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
The Good Place
#36
A[quote name="dynamotv" url="/community/t/155858/the-good-place/30#post_4139369"]I heard David Lindelof was consulted by Michael Schur on the world building of this show and it shows.   You want to discuss the world this show builds ad nauseum which is pretty amazing for a sitcom when you think of it.

  One of the more intriguing aspects of the show seems to be the idea that you can possibly game the system and get into heaven.   For example, it's revealed that Tahani raised 60 Billion for charity in her life but has some less than perfect character traits.   So it's implied you don't necessarily have to be a good person.   Just do more good things than bad and you're in.   Very interesting ground that's being covered in a comedy.
[/quote]

Yeah I'm loving the "God's Algorithm" scoring system. Who decided that holding the door open was +5 points but wearing makeup was -1? The micro-accounting that can land shitty but rich folks in The Good Place for giving to charity while poor people who swear a bit because their lives suck go to The Bad Place has the potential to be a huge problem, one that I hope ends up with a Robin-Hood of the Afterlife solution.
Reply
#37
Quote:

Originally Posted by dynamotv View Post
 


  One of the more intriguing aspects of the show seems to be the idea that you can possibly game the system and get into heaven.   For example, it's revealed that Tahani raised 60 Billion for charity in her life but has some less than perfect character traits.   So it's implied you don't necessarily have to be a good person.   Just do more good things than bad and you're in.   Very interesting ground that's being covered in a comedy.



I'm struggling with a definition of "good person" that doesn't mean doing more good things than bad.  All it's saying is that it's more important to be good than a chill person to hang with.  Which I don't think is very controversial, as far as ethics go.

Reply
#38
Quote:

Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post
 


I'm struggling with a definition of "good person" that doesn't mean doing more good things than bad.  All it's saying is that it's more important to be good than a chill person to hang with.  Which I don't think is very controversial, as far as ethics go.



Not the best worded.   What I mean is that it looks like it's possible to be a shitty person with these algorithms and still get into Heaven by doing some good things that are worth a lot of points.   Case in point: Mark Zuckerberg getting into heaven due to donating 99% of his wealth to charity when he might or might not be a shitty person in other aspects of his life.

Reply
#39
Quote:

Originally Posted by dynamotv View Post
 


Not the best worded.   What I mean is that it looks like it's possible to be a shitty person with these algorithms and still get into Heaven by doing some good things that are worth a lot of points.   Case in point: Mark Zuckerberg getting into heaven due to donating 99% of his wealth to charity when he might or might not be a shitty person in other aspects of his life.



Maybe I'm just being thick, but this all seems like common sense to me.  Like, of course any moral judgment system would have to be both holistic and weighted so that big stuff means more than little stuff.  But the scoring system does mean that everything matters, big and small, just big stuff means more than small stuff.



I think what you're circling is the idea that it appears to be possible to buy your way in to the Good Place, if you have a lot of money.  And while I do think that donating 99% of your wealth to charity should make up for an awful lot of road rage or being rude to waiters (and conversely, molesting one kid should cancel out a whole lot of good tipping and being supportive of friends' bad karaoke), I can see how it could seem objectionable for there to be some sort of indulgence system.  Ultimately though, I would agree with the premise of the system.  It's there to judge morality, and works far outweigh words on that scale.  So I have a hard time accepting any system where Tahani doing a bunch of good deeds would not outweigh her being kind of annoying to be around.

Reply
#40

It's kind of like a voting system where 1st place is 5 points, 2nd is 4, etc.  And while three or four different people get first place votes, you end up second on every single ballot.  Nobody thought you were the best, but the scoring means you got more points, so you win.



Spoilers:



I expected Jianyu to break his silence, but by confiding to Eleanor that he couldn't stand Tahani and that he was keeping silent so he wouldn't have to talk to her.  I did not expect him to be the note writer.  And this development definitely underlines the fact that something is up with this place.
Reply
#41

The points system laid out in the show is inherently screwed up, and the show knows it. Chidi is probably the best example: Michael pretty much says outright that Chidi never actually did anything with his life. He was a professor of ethics and moral philosophy, and wrote a ridiculous book about it that he never even finished, but we're not given any evidence that he actually did anything concrete to make the world better. By the criteria laid out in the very first episode he probably shouldn't be in the Good Place. The orientation movie says that you have to be in the top 1% of the top 1% of Good people to get in.

Reply
#42
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fafhrd View Post
 

The points system laid out in the show is inherently screwed up, and the show knows it. Chidi is probably the best example: Michael pretty much says outright that Chidi never actually did anything with his life. He was a professor of ethics and moral philosophy, and wrote a ridiculous book about it that he never even finished, but we're not given any evidence that he actually did anything concrete to make the world better. By the criteria laid out in the very first episode he probably shouldn't be in the Good Place. The orientation movie says that you have to be in the top 1% of the top 1% of Good people to get in.



You're probably right about where the show is going, but so far we haven't seen anything to suggest that Chidi did anything remotely bad at any point.  So his book could be worthless, but he could have a tone of other small points adding up, with nothing much to count against him.

Reply
#43

Or his singular devotion to writing his book was enough to get him in, because his intentions were pure. But you know what they say about good intentions.

Reply
#44
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamotv View Post
 


Not the best worded.   What I mean is that it looks like it's possible to be a shitty person with these algorithms and still get into Heaven by doing some good things that are worth a lot of points.   Case in point: Mark Zuckerberg getting into heaven due to donating 99% of his wealth to charity when he might or might not be a shitty person in other aspects of his life.


I wish people would stop saying that people like zuckerberg, gates and buffet are giving their wealth to charity. They are establishing foundations that hopefully will do charitable work but ultimately just protect their vast fortunes from the taxes that affect the rest of us.



That 'charity' will be immune to death taxes, pay little to no taxes, preserve the family wealth for as long as the system holds up, contain all of the family properties, jets boats islands etc. It will be run by the family and will pay out a far less amount to charity than it would have paid in taxes.



Do people actually believe that this is charity? Or are people cynical enough to just want to make sure the middle class feels guilty if they try to pass on anything to their children?

Reply
#45

I'm impressed with how fast this show moves. Jianyu's true identity isn't going to be secret from anyone much longer.

Reply
#46

Jianyu's personality was annoying as hell and hilarious to me. I know too many people like him.

Reply
#47

I sort of love the fact that Eleanor found someone actually worse than her.  It's nice little dynamic.



I was totally expecting something to come up out of that sinkhole at the end.

Reply
#48

I actually thought she was going to fall into the hole and end up in The Bad Place

Reply
#49
Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
 

I sort of love the fact that Eleanor found someone actually worse than her.  It's nice little dynamic.





Also very necessary.  In order for there to be any mileage in this premise (and for Eleanor herself not to be categorically unsympathetic), they need there to be more wrong with the afterlife than our protagonist.

Reply
#50

Well, they went there last night.  Totally didn't expect them to play that card so soon.



And Janet was the MVP.  Her alternating her calm reassurances that she was just a construct and could feel no pain and her pleas for her laugh was fantastic, as was the way she acted when she rebooted.

Reply
#51

Logistical question. Chidi is Senegalese and his primary language is French. The episode mentions the Sorbonne, but the flashback appears to take place at an American (or possibly Australian) institution. What language was he actually speaking there?

Reply
#52
A[quote name="Richard Dickson" url="/community/t/155858/the-good-place/30#post_4156838"]Well, they went there last night.  Totally didn't expect them to play that card so soon.

And Janet was the MVP.  Her alternating her calm reassurances that she was just a construct and could feel no pain and her pleas for her laugh was fantastic, as was the way she acted when she rebooted.
[/quote]

Agreed. Janet rocked this episode. And between pulling the trigger on Elanore's identify and revealing that the "good" Elanore has been in TBP this whole time, this show has addressed two of my biggest concerns by 8 episodes in. Now I truly have no idea where they're planning to go from here.
Reply
#53
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
 

Logistical question. Chidi is Senegalese and his primary language is French. The episode mentions the Sorbonne, but the flashback appears to take place at an American (or possibly Australian) institution. What language was he actually speaking there?


I noticed the same thing. I think they tossed out the French thing pretty quickly, because his flashback seemed to confirm pretty clearly that he was not French. I mean, why did he need to speak English in his own flashback? I think that's also why this show will never be a classic. I'd like to be proven wrong, but in better hands, they would have referenced that and reinforced his past.

Reply
#54

I'm assuming that everyone in that flashback is speaking TV-translated French. But that guy with the Australian accent does confuse things.



Meanwhile, I love how fast this show moves. Anyone think we'll actually visit the Bad Place by season's end?

Reply
#55

This is a show acting like it's only got one season and is going for broke.  First Eleanor outs herself, and now Jianyu is found out.  I really hope they have some kind of long-term plan and, more significantly, that this isn't all set-up for the show to basically become Eleanor and Jianyu Learn to Be Better People.

Reply
#56
A[quote name="Richard Dickson" url="/community/t/155858/the-good-place/30#post_4166056"]This is a show acting like it's only got one season and is going for broke.  First Eleanor outs herself, and now Jianyu is found out.  I really hope they have some kind of long-term plan and, more significantly, that this isn't all set-up for the show to basically become Eleanor and Jianyu Learn to Be Better People.
[/quote]

I'm loving that I have no goddamn clue where they're going with this. Having a ton of fun with this show.
Reply
#57
AOh, and a winter hiatus for a show with only 13 forking episodes is bullshirt.
Reply
#58
AHaha yup. Acknowledged because I am out of rep.
Reply
#59

I want more of Bad Janet.

Reply
#60
Quote:

Originally Posted by Analog Olmos View Post

Oh, and a winter hiatus for a show with only 13 forking episodes is bullshirt.


The winter hiatus is an outdated concept in general.

Reply
#61

That twist was handled beautifully.  Bravo.

Reply
#62

Yeah, I don't think a sitcom really needs that kind of twist, but it was handled very well.  I hope they find a way to keep Adam Scott coming back.  He gives great douchebag.

Reply
#63
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fafhrd View Post
 

I loved this. I think the arc of the show is going to change pretty quickly from "Elizabeth learns to be a good person and earn her place in The Good Place" into "actually, most of the people here don't really deserve it and the system is arbitrary and inherently flawed as it allows for the possibility of an incredibly bad person doing one incredibly good act and ending up in The Good Place."


Damn. Sometimes I forget that I'm from the future.

Reply
#64

Seriously.  My jaw actually dropped.  Next season will be very interesting.

Reply
#65

That grin when Michael drops the facade. I don't know how Danson even did that, he actually made his smile pointed.

Reply
#66

I admit, I'm gonna miss "good", befuddled Michael. Even though we'll get more of that facade, we'll know it's a facade now. It won't be the same.



Danson's a goddamn treasure, though.

Reply
#67

The twist was definitely unexpected. My frustration, like Dent touches on, is that the audience will be in on the secret. It will change the entire dynamic for the second season (if there is one). The writing is going to have to get much sharper in that case or I am afraid it will lose my attention pretty quickly.



Edited for clarity: That said, I think her leap to figuring it out was a bit of a stretch. Plus, did she assume that Chidi would not be matched up with her in a reboot, or did I miss that exposition?

Reply
#68

They certainly won't be able to stretch out more than a couple episodes of the characters trying to figure out what we already know.  Also, we apparently have a Cougar Town title situation on our hands.

Reply
#69

Also, Marc Evan Jackson had a better turn as a wackadoo judge on Man Seeking Woman, but that doesn't make "I have ruled the fart inadmissible." any less great.

Reply
#70

"Even getting them to do simple things, like pulling out each other's teeth is like...  I can't think of the right analogy."



Danson nailed that turn.  Also, Todd.

Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)