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Trumpocalypse Now
(07-11-2018, 11:10 AM)Amos Wrote: Schumer should be setting literal fires in the senate chamber to delay votes.

Any attempt to negotiate in good faith with these people makes him look like a hapless fool.

I mean, I'm more than aware that your default position is that liberals can improve every situation by being bigger dickheads.  What confuses me is the idea that the Garland suggestion is even a good faith effort at negotiation.  You think Schumer honestly thinks there is a snowball's chance in hell that Trump goes for it? Or that they are even negotiating?  The Republicans don't need anything from the Dems to get Kavanaugh through.  They just need to hold ranks.  Offering up a quasi-reasonable alternative will do more to give Collins or Murkowski political cover to actually break ranks and delay the appointment than any performative bit of douchery you are jonesing for.

It's a slim chance either way, but even slimmer if they don't play the few angles that are there.
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Floating Garland as an option, aside from having it on the record, is also performative. Kavanaugh is getting through - Collins and Murkowski are gonna vote the fucker right in.

Call it "douchery" if you wish, most people on the left want a fucking street fight at this point. Clawing and scratching.
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Yeah, that was pretty much what I meant above. To scold/call out Cheeto and go to him nice-as-you-can and float an idea (performatively) that you know has zero chance in hell of having any impact....it makes both sorts of actions ring false.

I'm certain Pelosi's done good things but she's been on my list for a long while, too - leftover anger from the brief time the Dems held the Congress and Obama was President and they still managed to not get much done.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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(07-11-2018, 01:07 PM)Amos Wrote: Floating Garland as an option, aside from having it on the record, is also performative. Kavanaugh is getting through - Collins and Murkowski are gonna vote the fucker right in.

Call it "douchery" if you wish, most people on the left want a fucking street fight at this point. Clawing and scratching.

I fear it will get to Deadwood levels before anything changes.

(07-11-2018, 01:29 PM)MichaelM Wrote: Yeah, that was pretty much what I meant above. To scold/call out Cheeto and go to him nice-as-you-can and float an idea (performatively) that you know has zero chance in hell of having any impact....it makes both sorts of actions ring false.

I'm certain Pelosi's done good things but she's been on my list for a long while, too - leftover anger from the brief time the Dems held the Congress and Obama was President and they still managed to not get much done.

Again, while the Dems political machinations can be like herding cats, it can't be said enough that the reason the Dems didn't do more is almost entirely due to GOP obstruction.  IMO, you can place almost all the blame on that fucker McConnell and his asshole partner, Paul Ryan.
I used to be with "it", but then they changed what "it" was. Now, what I'm with isn't "it", and what's "it" seems weird and scary to me. -Grandpa Simpson
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We need Democratic leadership who isn't completely in bed with the donor class.

Nancy herself got rich on insider trading, so she's definitely not the one to lead this populist blue wave.
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(07-11-2018, 12:55 PM)schwartz Wrote:
(07-11-2018, 11:10 AM)Amos Wrote: Schumer should be setting literal fires in the senate chamber to delay votes.

Any attempt to negotiate in good faith with these people makes him look like a hapless fool.

I mean, I'm more than aware that your default position is that liberals can improve every situation by being bigger dickheads.  What confuses me is the idea that the Garland suggestion is even a good faith effort at negotiation.  You think Schumer honestly thinks there is a snowball's chance in hell that Trump goes for it? Or that they are even negotiating?  The Republicans don't need anything from the Dems to get Kavanaugh through.  They just need to hold ranks.  Offering up a quasi-reasonable alternative will do more to give Collins or Murkowski political cover to actually break ranks and delay the appointment than any performative bit of douchery you are jonesing for.

It's a slim chance either way, but even slimmer if they don't play the few angles that are there.

Susan Collins was a more reliable vote for GOP in 2017 than any other year
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Establishment Dems tried appealing to centrists in 2016 and it failed spectacularly. Unless they just want to keep losing elections, the only direction to go is hard left.
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(07-11-2018, 01:29 PM)MichaelM Wrote: Yeah, that was pretty much what I meant above. To scold/call out Cheeto and go to him nice-as-you-can and float an idea (performatively) that you know has zero chance in hell of having any impact....it makes both sorts of actions ring false.

I'm certain Pelosi's done good things but she's been on my list for a long while, too - leftover anger from the brief time the Dems held the Congress and Obama was President and they still managed to not get much done.

That "not getting much done" was "passing the Affordable Care Act."

Now, you can feel like the Affordable Care Act is flawed, because it is, but as someone with loved ones who are probably alive today because of the ACA, you'll forgive me if I don't dismiss it as an insignificant achievement, or say that it wasn't better than what we had before.

Especially as the Democratic control of both the Executive and Legislature was indeed very short-lived, and they never held a Supermajority that would allow them to pass anything they wanted with impunity, because we hadn't yet reached the McConnell era of "fuck the rules and norms if they get in our way."  Though arguably by passing the ACA via Reconciliation it was the Democratic party that opened the door for that (So, you know, be careful what you wish for, those that want the Dems to be just as dirty as the GOP...because the GOP will use that as an excuse to be ten times dirtier the next time they're in power).
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Wasn't my intent to dismiss or belittle the ACA, flawed as it is. It's more my remaining frustrations from after Obama was sworn in and yet the transparency he promised never came, the reduction in executive power never happened, the Dem-led Congress mostly landed on shitty, Constitution-corroding bills Because Terrorism, and Gitmo remaining opening.

Yes, I realize not having a supermajority and having to deal with Mitch McTurtleFuckFace is going to limit what you can do.

But as we've seen in the last few years, playing nice yields limited and likely short term results. And Schumer and Pelosi are old school Dems, through and through.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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Your problem, then, is less with Obama and more with the Democratic party, which had to make sacrifices in order to win in 2006, which, albeit, was a different time and a bigger tent.

And yes, the fact that there wasn't a supermajority was also a major limiting factor. Lest we forget McConnell's statement that it was the goal of Republicans to make Obama a one term president.

The fact that they were able to get anything done at all speaks to Nancy Pelosi's skill as a leader, something that maintains to this day. Look how hard it's been for Ryan and Boehner to keep their guys in line. They can't! Pelosi's done a remarkable job of being able to get the legislation they were able to get through under those first two Obama years (where, lest we forget, he was trying to keep us from falling into a Great Depression) and even to this day, keeping Democrats in vulnerable areas from bolting towards Trump.

Pelosi and Schumer aren't the bad guys in that situation. Neither is Harry Reid. And it remains a black mark on Obama's record that stuff like Gitmo, the Patriot act, and the AUMF* all are open or part of our laws. If Obama had a fatal flaw, though, it was his thinking early and often that the fever in the Republican party would break, and that they'd come to the table, and that they were operating in good faith. Not that their intent was the establishment of minority rule.

But while nothing is more fun for Dems like me than making fun of other Dems, I think the problem is less with Democrats and more the broader conservative movement in this country and Mitchy Mac's quest for power.

*voted for by one Bernie Sanders, ftr.
home taping is killing music
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(07-11-2018, 01:07 PM)Amos Wrote: Call it "douchery" if you wish, most people on the left want a fucking street fight at this point. Clawing and scratching.

No, they really don't.  An animated minority of it may, but that is a different thing. 

(07-11-2018, 01:44 PM)Amos Wrote: Establishment Dems tried appealing to centrists in 2016 and it failed spectacularly. Unless they just want to keep losing elections, the only direction to go is hard left.

And the two elections before that, appealing to centrists won two consecutive terms for an honest to god black guy.  2016, devastating as it was, is a single data point whose conditions could never be recreated even if everyone on both sides tried.  The only thing dumber than doing the exact same thing over again is adopting the Costanza method on the assumption that the exact opposite has to work better.  It doesn't.  Things can, almost always, be worse.

I understand why you want a fight.  But picking losing ones does not help.
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Also, I can't believe we have to relitigate the fucking 2016 and its goddamn primary again, but, for the cheap seats:

VOTERS PICKED HILLARY CLINTON BY A SUBSTANTIAL MARGIN IN BOTH THE PRIMARY AND IN THE GENERAL, AND WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT A BERNIE SANDERS CAMPAIGN WITH THE FULL FORCE OF THE KOCH BROTHERS RUNNING OPPO ON HIM WOULD HAVE LOOKED LIKE.

Stop blaming some weird-ass conspiracy about "establishment Democrats" because it fits your narrative. It also writes off the hundreds of thousands of people of color who supported Clinton in the primary - something Sanders had every opportunity to do, and didn't, because he is not the greatest at intersectionality, to put it mildy.

We can argue up and down whether or not Hillary was the best candidate for 2016, but the fact remains, voters made a choice and they chose her. Voters. Not some smoky room.

Fucking hell. I'm gonna be eighty, hanging out in San Junipero, and some Ernie Cline looking motherfucker is still gonna wanna do this shit.
home taping is killing music
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I like Boone's style.
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(07-11-2018, 02:40 PM)boone daniels Wrote: Fucking hell. I'm gonna be eighty, hanging out in San Junipero, and some Ernie Cline looking motherfucker is still gonna wanna do this shit.
It's only because you give such great reactions, boone!
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(07-11-2018, 02:35 PM)boone daniels Wrote: Your problem, then, is less with Obama and more with the Democratic party, which had to make sacrifices in order to win in 2006, which, albeit, was a different time and a bigger tent.

While I do have criticisms of Obama (some of which your full post touch on), I never meant to communicate my problem was primarily with him. It was and has been with the party.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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(07-11-2018, 02:54 PM)bradito Wrote: I like Boone's style.

When it comes to politics, he's one player that's ready.
I used to be with "it", but then they changed what "it" was. Now, what I'm with isn't "it", and what's "it" seems weird and scary to me. -Grandpa Simpson
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It's true, a majority of registered Democrats chose Hillary - but then she couldn't field enough votes in the General. Whoops!

I'm not trying to relitigate 2016 but another round of limp, rudderless centrism ain't gonna fuckin work, fellas.
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Do we really need to go over the difference between the popular vote and the electoral college again? Or should we just go right to the likelyhood that voter registration laws in Wisconsin were what pushed Trump over the top there?

Also, I don't know how you can look at some of the positions routinely taken by potential nominees for 2020 - among them Harris, Gillibrand, and The Bern - and think "Yes, we will absolutely wind up with a rudderless centrist."
home taping is killing music
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We'll see, man.

Current events have made me cynical.
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Hey, Kavanaugh broke me, so I feel you with the cynicism, man.
home taping is killing music
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You guys shouldn't worry too much about NATO; Trump has never pulled out of anything.
Gamertag: Tweakee
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(07-11-2018, 03:22 PM)boone daniels Wrote: Hey, Kavanaugh broke me, so I feel you with the cynicism, man.

Speaking of:

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/0...ump-705800

Quote:In the one-page document , which was obtained by POLITICO, the White House wrote that Kavanaugh has overruled federal regulators 75 times on cases involving clean air, consumer protections, net neutrality and other issues. Most recently, in PHH Corp. v. Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, he favored curtailing the power of independent federal regulators. 
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(07-11-2018, 03:22 PM)farsight Wrote: You guys shouldn't worry too much about NATO; Trump has never pulled out of anything.

Yeah, but he's aborted plenty.
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A big deal: Trump releases Executive Order to end competitive selection process for Administrative Law Judges, making them political appointees who can be fired at will.

https://twitter.com/AndrewFeinberg/statu...5563836416
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(07-11-2018, 04:15 PM)Iron Maiden Wrote: A big deal: Trump releases Executive Order to end competitive selection process for Administrative Law Judges, making them political appointees who can be fired at will.
https://twitter.com/AndrewFeinberg/statu...5563836416

Don't worry, everything is going to be just...ugh....

Senate Confirms Trump DOJ Nominee Who Represented Russian Bank in 2017
https://www.rollcall.com/news/policy/sen...nk-in-2017


Quote:As the frenzy surrounding President Donald Trump’s Supreme Court nomination of Judge Brett Kavanaugh kicks into high gear this week, the Senate is voted Wednesday to confirm a divisive new director for the Criminal Division of the Department of Justice.

In late winter 2017, Brian Benczkowski, who now awaits Trump's signature to become the newest assistant attorney general at the DOJ, briefly represented Alfa Bank, a Russian bank with close ties to Russian government officials that media outlets previously reported was a subject of the FBI’s probe of the Trump campaign’s ties to Russia.
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(07-11-2018, 02:40 PM)boone daniels Wrote: VOTERS PICKED HILLARY CLINTON BY A SUBSTANTIAL MARGIN IN BOTH THE PRIMARY AND IN THE GENERAL, AND WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT A BERNIE SANDERS CAMPAIGN WITH THE FULL FORCE OF THE KOCH BROTHERS RUNNING OPPO ON HIM WOULD HAVE LOOKED LIKE.

This needs to be flown behind a plane on a banner on a cross-country tour until people get it.
My karmic debt must be huge.

----------

My blog: An Embarrassment of Rich's
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So...

what you're saying is...

Bernie would've won?
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Sure, sure.

All those butthurt Bernie Bros who voted for Trump just to spite Hillary really did America a solid there.
Originally Posted by ImmortanNick 

Saw Batman v Superman.
Now I know what it's like to see Nickelback in concert.

That's my review.
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I've said it before, and I'll say it again: An agenda based around economic populism only takes you so far when you have the Kochs and Fox making you look like the third lead on THE AMERICANS every day for four to six months. And that's not even getting into the weird sex stuff or the stuff with his wife bankrupting a college.

Like, was Hillary the best candidate for this particular political moment? In retrospect, probably not. In retrospect, it probably should have been someone like Biden. If Biden's son had lived, it might have been Biden.

But let's not pretend that Bernie was untouchable, either.

That being said, the "Bernie Bros voted for Trump" thing is also b.s. More people who backed Hillary in the primary voted for McCain over Obama than people who were for Bernie voted for Trump.

We can bust on Bernie Bros all we want, because it's fun, but I have to admit that when time came, they stepped up and "fell in line."

The problem wasn't the Bernie Bros. It was white people.
home taping is killing music
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I've met a couple guys like this, these all-too-proud leftists.

I asked one point blank, "Tell me, who would you have preferred in office, Clinton or Trump?"

"I reject the premise of your question," he said.

"Hypothetically, let's say there's a gun to your head and you can only choose one. Which is it?"

"I say pull the fucking trigger"

It's like it's all about purity for him and not, you know, the future of the Supreme court.

Thanks, guy
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Manafort just got transferred to a pound-me-in-the-ass city jail on orders of the federal judge, after Mueller got word of Manafort's "VIP lifestyle" in his most recent accommodations:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/pub...story.html

Quote:Prosecutors said in a court filing Wednesday that in recent jailhouse phone calls, Manafort has told people he is being treated like a "VIP" in the Northern Neck jail, where he has his own phone and computer, writes emails, and does not have to wear a uniform.

[...]

The prosecutors say that in recent phone calls from jail, Manafort also has said he has "all my files like I would at home," has "gone through all the discovery now," and is being treated like a "VIP."

Manafort speaks to his attorneys every day and often multiple times a day, they said. While the calls are limited to 15 minutes in length, there is no limit on how many calls he can make.

"Among the unique privileges Manafort enjoys at the jail are a private, self-contained living unit, which is larger than other inmates' units, his own bathroom and shower facility, his own personal telephone and his own workspace to prepare for trial," the prosecutors wrote. "Manafort is also not required to wear a prison uniform." He also has a personal laptop, they say, with an extension cord so he can use it in his unit and not just the workroom.



"These guys are pros, Michael. They're gonna push the tension 'till the last possible moment before they strip."

 
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(07-11-2018, 09:43 AM)jhp1608 Wrote: Meanwhile, England is turning into a country of total planks, continental Europe is beset by an unholy alliance of libertarian free market fundamentalists and Putin weaponising chauvinism and economic discontent, Ireland is on the verge of getting properly shafted by the old enemy, Scotland isn't independent, Australia and South Africa have fuck off snakes and spiders, Canada is too cold and New Zealand too far away.

How are the Falklands looking?

Brazil is the country of the future.....


....and always will be.

(07-11-2018, 04:15 PM)Iron Maiden Wrote: A big deal: Trump releases Executive Order to end competitive selection process for Administrative Law Judges, making them political appointees who can be fired at will.

https://twitter.com/AndrewFeinberg/statu...5563836416


Which means the next dem president can fire the fuck out of Trump appointees and reverse the EO. And probably get congress to pass a law to ensure competitive selection, as the Republicans will be pissed about what just happened.

A Hawaiian shirt is like a cash gift - always appropriate
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(07-11-2018, 08:20 PM)boone daniels Wrote: We can bust on Bernie Bros all we want, because it's fun, but I have to admit that when time came, they stepped up and "fell in line."

Did they, though? I mean, our very own Reasor voted for Stein.

And I don't think you can ignore the effects of the amount of noise the ones who DID vote Clinton were making about how awful she was and how the DNC stole the primary from Bernie for her, all the way up until election day, had on undecided voters.
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I'd have to go back and find the numbers, but yeah, a higher percentage of Bernie primary voters voted for Clinton in the general than Clinton primary voters voted for Obama.

You are right, though, that there was a lot of noise from that crowd that played a not-insignifigant part, and we should bring that up.

When we're not relitigating the primary.
home taping is killing music
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(07-11-2018, 10:36 PM)Fafhrd Wrote:
(07-11-2018, 08:20 PM)boone daniels Wrote: We can bust on Bernie Bros all we want, because it's fun, but I have to admit that when time came, they stepped up and "fell in line."

Did they, though? I mean, our very own Reasor voted for Stein.

[Image: giphy.gif]
Originally Posted by ImmortanNick 

Saw Batman v Superman.
Now I know what it's like to see Nickelback in concert.

That's my review.
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