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Hollywood Scandals & Assorted Skeeve Catch-All
That wasn't rhetorical. I'd never heard these things before.

...and why does anyone ask a rhetorical question if not mostly for that reason?
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This is going to be a banner derail, I see.

One of the most important things my wife ever said to me was "Just because it's not important to you, doesn't mean it's not important to someone."

On a similar note, just because you didn't hear about it happening and it's new to you...doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Finally - it's coming up now because I think people are hesitant to go full hagiography of the dead, and to put their lives in context. If we're going to be okay celebrating the death of Billy Graham and pointing out the flaws of someone like Charles Krauthammer, we have to be okay when people who were affected by seeing Ellison grope someone bring that up in the aftermath of his death.
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(06-29-2018, 11:11 AM)boone daniels Wrote: World Fantasy Awards went through this shit, too. Although I think flint's suggestion that the other side responded by nominating women/authors of color regardless of their quality is a little unfair.

Well, I've not read everything, but I can say the same about the dude-bro stuff. But whilst I adored Ann Leckie's first three books a LOT, there's no way in hell *Provenance* should be anywhere near a best of list of any kind - unless of course you're madly in love with her pronoun based world building, which was a clever juxtaposition in her Ancillary series on the fact that our main character was simply not human in any way.

And the Broken Earth books are shudderingly awful, and it's likely Jemisin is going to make the triple this year.

But yeah, I mostly look at the back of a book and read something like this:

Quote:Social outcasts Patricia and Laurence have been friends since they were young, when they dodged cafeteria food that was thrown at them. But when Laurence, a supercomputing genius, finds out that Patricia can talk to birds, even he isn't sure if their friendship will last. Fast forward a few years and Laurence is working for a billionaire who wants to create a machine that allows for intergalactic travel to save humans after they have destroyed their own world. Patricia, meanwhile, has honed her magic skills at a witch academy and is now wandering the city healing people when she isn't supposed to.

And I do wonder what the awards people are smoking.
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That's All The Birds In The Sky, and it's wonderful.
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I don't know man I want that book to be made into a movie right now.
“I call upon you to stop this musical now,” she said to the board. “You tear a community apart if you don’t.” -Prachi Ruina                                                            
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"Patricia, I'm...I'm just not sure if our friendship can stand the test of time. There, I said it. It's not you, it's just...well, you can talk to birds. Like, legit actually converse with them. And that's somehow not a kickass superpower but a thing that makes me question the whole foundation of our relationship."
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Yeah, because I totally said I didn't think it happened just because I haven't heard about it until now. That's exactly what I said. Shame on me..
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Hey, I'm just glad commodore's moved on from making jokes about movies he refuses to see to books he refuses to read.

Fraid, I was a little short with you, but the phrasing you used - "why bring it up now" - is routinely used to shut down the voices of people who want to speak up about abuses within SF, and they're using the fact that a major figure in the genre to address it, and I think the fact that you didn't know it happened (and I didn't remember, fully, until today) is why it's being brought up. I just think there's a tendency to dismiss this stuff as unimportant when people (people generally) are saying that LEGACY and TALENT are all that matter.
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(06-29-2018, 11:40 AM)boone daniels Wrote: Hey, I'm just glad commodore's moved on from making jokes about movies he refuses to see to books he refuses to read.
I'm a man of many talents!

Seriously, though, if you want to explain to me why talking to birds is something that can shake a relationship to its core, I'm all ears.
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I'm not your mother and I'm not your teacher. Read the fucking book, rather than continuing to be smug in your own sense of superiority regarding the quality of any particular work, and decide for yourself.
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Sure, I'll throw it on my list of books to read, which at current length means I may get to it at some point within the next five years. Until then, I guess I'll just have to continue on in my state of not actually knowing.

I mean, I'd kind of assume that someone who claims a book is wonderful would want to tell other people about it, but what do I know?
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Normally? Yeah. I'm a big cheerleader for books. Love books. I've got a list of go-to recommendations I'll happily share.

But there's also the sunk cost fallacy, and I'm not inclined to waste my time when you've demonstrated, with remarkable consistency, that you'd much rather make a joke or an unwillingness to listen to the other point of view.

So I'd kind of assume any attempt to tell you why the book is wonderful would just be a waste of my fucking time.

But since I'm a masochist: The way Charlie Jane Anders chooses to tell her story - both in her narrative choices, use of language, and overall prose style - is what makes the book so wonderful. It's part of the ongoing trend to bring the worlds of literary fiction and the world of genre fiction closer together. The plot may seem silly, but it's actually quite surprising along the way. It's a good story, well told.
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I'm totally willing to listen to your point of view. It's just that, as per usual, you simply refuse to explain what your point of view actually is rather than telling people to drop what they're doing and spend the next n minutes/hours reading/watching someone else's explanation of their views on the assumption that we will then be able to intuit your own.

(06-29-2018, 11:53 AM)boone daniels Wrote: But since I'm a masochist: The way Charlie Jane Anders chooses to tell her story - both in her narrative choices, use of language, and overall prose style - is what makes the book so wonderful. It's part of the ongoing trend to bring the worlds of literary fiction and the world of genre fiction closer together. The plot may seem silly, but it's actually quite surprising along the way. It's a good story, well told.
And, well, that doesn't actually answer the question I had, but at least you're explaining something about it.
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First, I just updated my post to tell you why.

Second, this board is filled with people who routinely "refuse to explain what their point of view actually is," saying that something is excellent, or worth checking out. I don't see you taking shots at them.

Third, at no point did I say "drop what you're doing and read ALL THE BIRDS IN THE SKY." Fucking Christ, you just love to assume the worst about me, don't you? No. What I said was "It's wonderful."

Fourth, if you're going to take shots at me because it helps you get your rocks off or something, at least try to be consistent about it.
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(06-29-2018, 12:00 PM)boone daniels Wrote: Second, this board is filled with people who routinely "refuse to explain what their point of view actually is," saying that something is excellent, or worth checking out. I don't see you taking shots at them.
That's usually because they don't get all up in people's business over a single paragraph of good-natured snark.

Quote:Third, at no point did I say "drop what you're doing and read ALL THE BIRDS IN THE SKY." Fucking Christ, you just love to assume the worst about me, don't you? No. What I said was "It's wonderful."
Right - and after that you told me to go read it instead of answering my question.
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Maybe because I've seen you, time and time again, engage in "good natured snark" over actual discussion, or as a response to an actual attempt to engage you in debate? Maybe because it's a little exhausting to try and engage you on these points, only to have you do the equivalent of a shrug emoj? Maybe because it feels like you routinely, repeatedly single me out for this shit, and it's a little fucking exhausting?

Also, to a very real extent - YOU COULD HAVE GOOGLED IT. If you were curious about this book you'd never heard about, a cursory Google search would have brought up at least a couple of reviews that would probably do more to convince you than some social justice warrior you've never met online.

This isn't debate camp, commodore. It's not my job to convince you one way or the other, and time and time again, you've demonstrated that trying to do so is a sunk cost.
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Guys, guys: All the Birds in the Sky is a well-meaning effort that reads like a half-baked YA novel AND commodorejohn constantly posts overly dismissive statements of intent to avoid movies and books mentioned in threads he finds contemptible.

BOTH can be true!
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(06-29-2018, 12:08 PM)boone daniels Wrote: Maybe because it feels like you routinely, repeatedly single me out for this shit, and it's a little fucking exhausting?
I'm not trying to single you out, boone. It's just that you have this habit of acting like people should stop conversing on a topic until they've read whatever thing you decide is germane when you could save everybody a whole lot of time by presenting a brief synopsis of the relevant bit instead. It is, occasionally, a little fucking exhausting.

Quote:Also, to a very real extent - YOU COULD HAVE GOOGLED IT. If you were curious about this book you'd never heard about, a cursory Google search would have brought up at least a couple of reviews that would probably do more to convince you than some social justice warrior you've never met online.
And I did, in fact, go over to Wikipedia, which gave me an extended of synopsis of the book's actual plot, without ever getting around to addressing the thing that struck me funny and made me curious.

As for "some social justice warrior you've never met online," well, honestly I'd actually be more interested in hearing about it from you directly, since while we've never met in person, we have conversed about many things extensively and I think you're an interesting and smart person even though I disagree with you often. But I can't help the fact that you're more interested in berating me for snarking on the dust-jacket synopsis without having first read the book than you are in telling me about it.

Quote:This isn't debate camp, commodore. It's not my job to convince you one way or the other.
So don't. But if you don't want to engage with me on this, maybe don't start it in the first place?
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Look, we're moving in a few days, so I'm a little exhausted/on edge generally.

However, we've discussed this desire you have for me to "summarize" one argument or another, when the answer is as simple as clicking over to Twitter/Facebook, whatever. I'm happy when the discussion is about a book or a much longer article, but I don't think it's too much to ask for people to at least read a link/assume they've read a link before discussing it.

There's also a huge difference between looking up a book on Wikipedia and reading a review of it; I'd argue. I'd argue you can get more about why you might like something from a review rather than a book summary.

My copy of the book's in a box as a result, so maybe we hit pause on that particular discussion for the time being.

I appreciate your kind words.
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*sigh* I knew I should have teasingly mocked the one about the lesbian AI running away from her spaceship with the chief engineer, instead.
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Yes, flint, it's all your fault!!!
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(06-29-2018, 12:23 PM)boone daniels Wrote: My copy of the book's in a box as a result, so maybe we hit pause on that particular discussion for the time being.

I appreciate your kind words.
Sure thing.
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ANYWAY. I never could find what Clarke did wrong? I know there was that accusation of Paedophila about twenty years back, but that never went anywhere did it?
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It seems like paedophilia is the one that is routinely rumored around Clarke.
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Awww fuck....I didn't wanna know that..
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It was a weird one. The authorities in the region concerned (Sri Lanka) cleared him, he categorically denied it and the source is essentially a British tabloid. I haven't done much reading on it since then, but a quick google doesn't seem to reveal anything new.
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...So, uh, this is quite a story.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/featur...dy-1123815
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It was the 'sorry for your loss' that lost my sympathies.


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Even though he was cleared by Sri Lanka authorities it still seems odd he would choose to live there for as long he did.

Oh and speaking of horrible sci-fi/fantasy writers no longer with us. Look up the history of Marion Zimmer Bradley sometime, you'll need to take a good long shower afterwards.
Originally Posted by ImmortanNick 

Saw Batman v Superman.
Now I know what it's like to see Nickelback in concert.

That's my review.
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Lady Sif is now backing Chris Hardwick.
“I call upon you to stop this musical now,” she said to the board. “You tear a community apart if you don’t.” -Prachi Ruina                                                            
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I just read your updated post, Boone. When I said that it wasn't meant as some sort of coded way to saying something in the deceased perpetrator's defense. I was lamenting the fact that they had waited until he died to speak up. I wouldn't defend those actions if they were committed by someone I LIKE....and I don't even like Harlan Ellison that much. I recognize his contributions to sci-fi but he was an asshole through and through so he isn't even someone that I'd care to expend too much effort defending. Try not to think the worst of people. I would never defend someone accused of sexual assault or improper behavior unless there was something CLEARLY fishy and suspicious. I may word things not as well as possible from time to time but, try to remember that..
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We good, Fraid.
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Yup. We are..
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Additional charges have been filed against Harvey Weinstein which bear potential life sentences.

https://news.avclub.com/new-charges-file...lMarketing
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Good.
“I call upon you to stop this musical now,” she said to the board. “You tear a community apart if you don’t.” -Prachi Ruina                                                            
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