Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
The Handmaid's Tale (The One On Hulu, Not on CSPAN)
#71

The scariest and most believable element to the show is how gradually it all falls apart and the character's unwillingness to admit it. When they're trying to escape and lamenting about how they waited too long it really hit home how this could really happen.

Reply
#72

Finished the fifth episode last night. I'll give the show credit, it manages to introduce character beats during the interminable scenes of men having their way with Elisabeth Moss. So the episode culminating with her and Nick having passionate, consensual sex, and June getting on top, was a nice reversal.



But yeah, I could do without yet another rape scene.

Reply
#73
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
 

Finished the fifth episode last night. I'll give the show credit, it manages to introduce character beats during the interminable scenes of men having their way with Elisabeth Moss. So the episode culminating with her and Nick having passionate, consensual sex, and June getting on top, was a nice reversal.



But yeah, I could do without yet another rape scene. 


WELL TOO BAD!!!  WELCOME TO THE PATRIARCHY, FUCKER!!!

Reply
#74

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum, bitches.

Reply
#75

SCHWARTZBLOG APPROVED

Reply
#76
Quote:

Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post
 

SCHWARTZBLOG APPROVED



Nice work. Agree with you about Bledel. 



I have to both agree and disagree with you in this paragraph: 


Quote:

 At the same time, I’ve also started to wonder, is it possible for something to feel bleak and quaint at the same time?  As 2017 wore on, issues of misogyny and rape culture came to dominate more and more of the national conversation.  But while Gilead being the fevered fantasy on Mike Pence’s vision board seemed highly topical in January, the continuing ineptitude and cartoonish venality of the Trump administration have made it increasingly clear that they are more apt to bring about the moronic hellscape of Idiocracy than anything as formidable, or remotely competent, as the show’s religious junta.  And the wave of firings, disgrace, and resignations that followed the outing of Harvey Weinstein as a rapacious monster have brought different, more subtle forms of sexual abuse to the fore of our collective consciousness.  This rot is sunk deep and wide across all strata of society, and removing it will not be as relatively simple as opposing a uniformed, expressly fascist regime. 


On one hand, I think you make a good point about how we had all these fears in January, but by the time the show wrapped or even won its Emmys, those fears seemed less justified - even with every story that comes out about how Pence really is that zealous and impassioned about restricting women's rights. On the other, this made me think about how Atwood's description of writing the novel involved only using things that had either happened in history, or were happening today. At its smartest, the show had all these visual cues or evocations of the far, far religious right in this country, not just among Christianity, but other religions as well. As an example, I watched the documentary PROPHET'S PREY, about fundamentalist Mormons, a little before watching the show. In that documentary, there's a shot of girls running in modest dresses that almost directly corresponds to the same scene in the pilot. I think it's easy to read Handmaid's Tale, the series, as an allegory for Trump's America (and I'm not saying your piece does this) - but I also think there's a reading of the show that corresponds to Atwood's intent with the novel, a pastiche of historical and present oppression and misogyny.

home taping is killing music
Reply
#77
AI’m not sure I see the disagreement? What I was trying to say is that the face of “present misogyny” has changed dramatically in just the last 6 months. And that face, at the moment, probably wouldn’t be openly or overtly oppressive toward women.

I don’t mean to make it out like the show was completely blind to any of that before - there are some moments like the doctor offering to “help” Offred. But I wonder how the season would look if it were in production today. Would, for example, Nick’s portrayal be less sympathetic? “Complicit” has become a much dirtier, weightier word this year.
Reply
#78

Emilia Clarke claims this show is good and sexy.



Is it good and sexy?

Reply
#79

Yes. You should watch all of it and then come back when you're done.

Reply
#80

I sense a trap but OK I'll do it!

Reply
#81

Adding my two cents to the Ann Dowd praise, she was terrific in the movie Compliance, which is disturbing and scary in a lot of the same ways that The Handmaid's Tale is. She plays the manager of a fast-food restaurant who gets a call from someone claiming to be a cop investigating a theft by one of her employees, a young (late teenage/early twenties, I forget) woman. It deals with a lot of similar themes of power imbalance in society and blind acceptance of authority. Though it's a hard watch -- especially since it's based on a true story -- I recommend it. Dowd's especially good, and won a National Board of Review award for it.

Reply
#82

^ Dowd's also been consistently great on the past two seasons of TNT's Good Behavior, playing FBI agent, and she brings a ton of unexpected humor to the role too.

Reply
#83
AThis show is the most disturbing thing I've ever felt compelled to watch in a page-turner kind of way.

There's been some talk about how in the wake of #MeToo and the last year of watching inept, bumbling evil at the highest levels, the world of Handmaid's Tale feels a little farther away than it must have in January 2017.

I couldn't disagree more.

If 2016 and 2017 have taught us anything, I hope it's that pointing and laughing at the evil people with backwards ideas and no grasp of science, history, or even facts doesn't make them go away. It doesn't take away their power either. It just makes them seem like they're not a threat.... right up until they are. That's how you find yourself unable to get your family to safety because you waited too long.

If there's one thing I want us to take away from the last few years, it's that letting horrible ideas go unchallenged because they're ridiculous, or we don't want to dignify them with a response, or we think no one could possibly be persuaded by such an obvious con... all of these pave the road to Gilead.

It's not going to be women getting their bank accounts frozen and fired from work, guys.

It's going to be Muslims first. And everyone watching this show thinking "I would have headed for the border LONG before it got that bad!" no, you wouldn't. Because you have a job. A family to feed. And it isn't THAT bad yet. And they're not really bothering YOU yet. And it'll get better, just gotta wait till the midterms.

9/11 redux happens.
The Government suspends all immigration including refugees, and requires all current VISA holders to report to local offices where their credentials are confiscated and held.
For national security reasons following yet another attack, Muslim Americans are asked to voluntarily report to designated areas for background checks. All voluntary, nothing to fear. National Guard is mobilized so we have the manpower to move families through quickly. Most processing sites are football stadiums or similar. Those cleared get a nice shiny American Flag sticker to wear to show they volunteered to help make our country safe again.

At that point we're on the brink. One misstep, one violent protest, one copycat or independent attack and we're back at Japanese internment camps.

And given that THIS war, unlike WWII, has no end in sight... it could get much, much worse.

Forget Pence's fever dream. In this world the religious right doesn't have to overthrow the government. They just need the right crises in the right order to give them the holy war they want, and then it's up to the rest of us to pick a side.
Reply
#84

So best Drama and best Actress in a Drama.   Sounds like we're going to see the colonies next season as well.



After 10 episodes of this with the only victories to cling to being



A) Offred not dying


B) Luke and Moira getting to freedom, and


C) knowing that the information on where Hannah is lies inside Serena Joy's skull



My wife and I were both just exhausted.   I can't think of another show that I spent at least 50% of the runtime muttering "somebody's gotta die."  If I'm going to make it through a second season of this, its not enough for the innocent to survive.



I'm going to need some evil fuckers to start dying.

Reply
#85

Season 1 Blu-ray is up for preorder at Amazon:



https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07896K9W1



Reply
#86

Marisa Tomei will be a guest star during the next season:



http://www.deadline.com/2018/01/marisa-t...202242926/



Also, the show's budget has been substantially increased this season, in part to show the scope and backstory of the second civil war that leads to the rise of Gilead.

Reply
#87
AI haven't read the book and don't want to risk spoilers by Googling, so can someone just tell me if the first season covered the entire thing, or the first half, or what? The open-ended note the season finished on felt like a fairly novelistic way to leave things, so I could see it going either way.
Reply
#88
A[quote name="Schwartz" url="/community/t/156225/the-handmaids-tale-the-one-on-hulu-not-on-cspan/50#post_4450290"]I haven't read the book and don't want to risk spoilers by Googling, so can someone just tell me if the first season covered the entire thing, or the first half, or what? The open-ended note the season finished on felt like a fairly novelistic way to leave things, so I could see it going either way.[/quote]

Essentially, yes, the first season covered the entirety of the novel.
Reply
#89

First Season 2 trailer has dropped:





Premieres on April 25th. I read an article which mentioned that we're going to get to see Emily's (Alexis Bledel) flashbacks to getting her passport denied. Should be sad.

Reply
#90

Well if that trailer confirms absolutely nothing else, it will still look freaking beautiful.

Reply
#91

Keep finding reasons to surf the web on my phone or count the number of tiles on the nearby floor.  Meticulously crafted, beautifully shot, but the entire thing seems completely implausible and it's sloowwwwwwwwwwwww and dreary as hell.  The themes make me feel like I should be watching a show about Sharia law, then we switch to Puritan/Amish speech and dress.



I have no familiarity with the book.



**if this is supposed to be some sort of "what would happen if men could give in to their base desires" scenario, it's extremely fascinating as an insight into what the women writers/directors/author(s) think of men.

Reply
#92
Quote:

Originally Posted by Overlord View Post



**if this is supposed to be some sort of "what would happen if men could give in to their base desires" scenario, it's extremely fascinating as an insight into what the women writers/directors/author(s) think of men.



Ron Howard: It's not.

home taping is killing music
Reply
#93
A[quote name="Overlord" url="/community/t/156225/the-handmaids-tale-the-one-on-hulu-not-on-cspan/90#post_4456186"]Keep finding reasons to surf the web on my phone or count the number of tiles on the nearby floor.  Meticulously crafted, beautifully shot, but the entire thing seems completely implausible and it's sloowwwwwwwwwwwww and dreary as hell.  The themes make me feel like I should be watching a show about Sharia law, then we switch to Puritan/Amish speech and dress. 

I have no familiarity with the book. 

**if this is supposed to be some sort of "what would happen if men could give in to their base desires" scenario, it's extremely fascinating as an insight into what the women writers/directors/author(s) think of men. 
[/quote]

Huh, to me it seems incredibly possible in the broad strokes at least. Given a biblical justification for 'surrogacy' and a population crisis, the hardest part I have believing is that these yokels TOPPLED the government, instead of these yokels ARE the government.

It's a classic slippery slope tale, with the modern touchstones being:

1. The government protecting religions objections to providing services to gay/transgendered people. It's about a 2inch hop to the right to start refusing services based on moral religious objection to how people live their lives in other ways.

There's a scene about halfway through Season 1 where June and Moira are refused service at a coffee shop and called sluts by the barista. That seemed so likely to happen I half think there's places in the South where it ALREADY would be defended by the shop owner.

2. The demonization of Muslims and minorities in general by a single political party, and the weaponization of the Justice system against those groups.

God forbid we have a few terrorist attacks in close temporal proximity perpetrated by individuals of the brown persuasion. We have elements within our government and media TODAY who openly reference Japanese internment camps as an unfortunate but appropriate response to dealing with Japanese American citizens during wartime.

Add in an outside stressor like a population collapse? I think it's not only possible but incredibly likely those tribal impulses get fanned into a movement looking to turn the tide of events by seeking purity in many forms. Racial purity, religious purity, you name it.

Ultimately, I think the question I have when watching the show is "How much worse is this than things that have already transpired in human history?" And the answer is "Not at all."
Reply
#94
Quote:

Originally Posted by Overlord View Post
 

Keep finding reasons to surf the web on my phone or count the number of tiles on the nearby floor.  Meticulously crafted, beautifully shot, but the entire thing seems completely implausible and it's sloowwwwwwwwwwwww and dreary as hell.  The themes make me feel like I should be watching a show about Sharia law, then we switch to Puritan/Amish speech and dress.



I have no familiarity with the book.



**if this is supposed to be some sort of "what would happen if men could give in to their base desires" scenario, it's extremely fascinating as an insight into what the women writers/directors/author(s) think of men.



Wow, are we in agreement here.



I'll also add that Moss's connection to Scientology makes the show particularly difficult to stomach.

Reply
#95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malmordo View Post


Wow, are we in agreement here.



I'll also add that Moss's connection to Scientology makes the show particularly difficult to stomach.



I've never liked Moss much as an actress, and the abusive cult she belongs to doesn't help matters.



The concept that this incredibly complex social/political structure with absolutely no modern mainstream historical support in the United States supposedly sprung up within a few short years and engendered a wide-spread following (instead of wide-spread militarized and/or guerrilla opposition) is too unbelievable for me to swallow.  If this was set multiple generations in the future I would find it far more plausible.  Or, put it in the Middle East and change the religion to Islam (post Iran revolution seems to be the best analogue), cause then it would have a ton of historical bases.



In looking at dystopian science fiction I do find believable, 1984 and Children of Men come immediately to mind, along with multiple episodes of Black Mirror.  It's a hard genre to nail.



I'm on an episode now where one of the Gilmore girls hasn't said a word the entire running time, despite having a Hannibal Lecter gag that's primarily designed to keep people from biting, rather than from speaking (though I imagine they went with it cause it looks cool).  I doubt I'll finish it.  It's just not engaging and the painfully, glacially slow pace and unending miserable-ness does it no favors.

Reply
#96

I think the tentacle-like presence of the FLDS throughout much of Nevada and Utah is a much better comparison than the Middle East.

home taping is killing music
Reply
#97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boone Daniels View Post
 

I think the tentacle-like presence of the FLDS throughout much of Nevada and Utah is a much better comparison than the Middle East.



Except there isn't widespread support of the FLDS throughout the U.S., nor even in Nevada and Utah (maybe 10k members according to good ol' wikipedia).  As opposed to the widespread support fundamental Islam engenders throughout much of the Middle East and Northern Africa.



It seems to me that post-Shah Iran is the obvious historical example they were drawing from, but for some reason decided to put this weird Pilgrim/Puritan aesthetic and doctrine on to everything.  It doesn't work for me.

Reply
#98

The show, when read as a text, indicates that Gilead has power per se, but it's regionally limited to the Northeast, and the rest has been irradiated or polluted for one reason or another. This is one of the issues that the show has as an adaptation - the book is entirely from Offred/June's perspective, and there are no flashbacks to how things came to be, so you're unclear if this is meant to be, say, 2050 or 2150 until the very end. Whereas the show makes the decision to root its flashbacks in what feels like a present moment - or, at most, a few years from now - before flashing forward to Gilead.



Everything in the show is pulled in one way or another from the historical or contemporary record. Pointing to the Middle East is easy, but I could point to countless examples - the Quiverfull movement, various Christian home school movements - where the show, like the book, is drawing from American or even European cultural/religious life.



There's also the notion that a sort of widespread religious fervor - particularly in the aftermath of some kind of biological collapse and ecological disaster, to say nothing of terrorist attacks - wouldn't sweep the United States, or a region of it.



I will concede that the show doesn't present a unified theory of how things got that way, and it's not entirely consistent. But I could poke similar holes in any of the dystopias you named, and it remains strange that the only people I have ever heard say "Well, that could never happen" or "that's too unrealistic" are men.

home taping is killing music
Reply
#99

Also, want to be clear I'm not taking shots at Overlord - I just think it's interesting who parses the show, and who doesn't. I'm enjoying this discussion. I thought this was a good article for contextualizing some of the reaction to the show from former Christian fundamentalists: 

https://theestablishment.co/i-grew-up-in...e2f77263d9



And yes, Moss' connection to Scientology is a problem.

home taping is killing music
Reply
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boone Daniels View Post
 

The show, when read as a text, indicates that Gilead has power per se, but it's regionally limited to the Northeast, and the rest has been irradiated or polluted for one reason or another. This is one of the issues that the show has as an adaptation - the book is entirely from Offred/June's perspective, and there are no flashbacks to how things came to be, so you're unclear if this is meant to be, say, 2050 or 2150 until the very end. Whereas the show makes the decision to root its flashbacks in what feels like a present moment - or, at most, a few years from now - before flashing forward to Gilead.



The book's fudging of time sounds like it would be significantly a better way to go.



Quote:

Everything in the show is pulled in one way or another from the historical or contemporary record. Pointing to the Middle East is easy, but I could point to countless examples - the Quiverfull movement, various Christian home school movements - where the show, like the book, is drawing from American or even European cultural/religious life.




It's "easy" cause it makes a lot more sense.  The U.S. has never, in any of its modern history, had the sort of uniform socio-political oppression of women that is depicted in the show.  In the span of 4-5 years, a large swathe of the country (a country with hundreds of millions of civilian weapons) accepts this sort of system placed upon their wives and daughters?



Quote:
....  the only people I have ever heard say "Well, that could never happen" or "that's too unrealistic" are men.


I agree with you that men tend to be far more rational/grounded in realism and not given to flights of fearful fantasies.

Reply
Quote:

Originally Posted by Overlord View Post
 

The U.S. has never, in any of its modern history, had the sort of uniform socio-political oppression that is depicted in the show.



Oh, come on

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convict_lease


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redeemers


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Kl...%80%931944


For starters.

home taping is killing music
Reply

The only one of those that's modern (post WW2) are some of the "Jim Crow" laws, and those have nothing to do with imposing a theocracy.  The U.S. simply doesn't have a theocratic tradition, unlike a bunch of other regions of the world where this plot would make more sense.



I find the show completely unbelievable.  You don't.  Fair enough.

Reply
A[quote name="Overlord" url="/community/t/156225/the-handmaids-tale-the-one-on-hulu-not-on-cspan/90#post_4456622"]


It's "easy" cause it makes a lot more sense.  The U.S. has never, in any of its modern history, had the sort of uniform socio-political oppression that is depicted in the show.  In the span of 4-5 years, a large swathe of the country (a country with hundreds of millions of civilian weapons) accepts this sort of system placed upon their wives and daughters?

[/quote]

Well, no. The show posits that the country splintered into several regional powers, with Gilead holding only a fraction of the territory and population of the current US.

Placing the fundamentalist Christian regime in the northeast rather than a more southerly and central region, now that is a bit of a headscratcher.
Reply
Quote:

Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post

Placing the fundamentalist Christian regime in the northeast rather than a more southerly and central region, now that is a bit of a headscratcher.


Maybe they wanted the show to take place where its target audience primarily lives?

Reply
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlord View Post
 

The only one of those that's modern (post WW2) are some of the "Jim Crow" laws, and those have nothing to do with imposing a theocracy.  The U.S. simply doesn't have a theocratic tradition, unlike a bunch of other regions of the world where this plot would make more sense.



I find the show completely unbelievable.  You don't.  Fair enough.



You didn't say theocracy. You said uniform socio-political oppression, and any historian will tell you that modern history absolutely encompasses the time period of post-Reconstruction. 


Stop moving the goalposts when your points are being undercut by historical fact. 


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_history

home taping is killing music
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)