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Stranger Things: Season Two (Netflix) discussion brought to you by Overlord
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSaxon View Post
 

I was quite firmly in Team Jonathan throughout season one but it's amazing how much this season turned me around. Not only is Steve really great in this season - whether it's fighting (or at least trying to fight) my new favorite character Billy, giving Dustin bad advice about girls, or taking on monsters - but Jonathan is an absolute wet blanket of a character throughout. I found him really annoying this season and it didn't help that he was stuck in the most boring storyline.


I don't think the character writing or the plotting did Jonathan many favors this season.  In the first season, it was easy to get us on his side, because he's motivated by the disappearance of his brother for the entire season.  In season 2, he doesn't ever find out that something's really wrong with Will until the last couple of episodes, and his motivation before that basically amounts to being dragged along on the Barb crusade by Nancy, which is far less of a personal matter for him.  I believe that having him more closely tied into Will's story would have been the better choice.



In short, until all the storylines converge near the end of the season, he just doesn't have much to do, or much of a personal stake in anything.



I still think the character has solid potential going forward.

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A[quote name="MrSaxon" url="/community/t/159081/stranger-things-season-two-netflix-discussion-brought-to-you-by-overlord/570#post_4411995"]I was quite firmly in Team Jonathan throughout season one but it's amazing how much this season turned me around. Not only is Steve really great in this season - whether it's fighting (or at least trying to fight) my new favorite character Billy, giving Dustin bad advice about girls, or taking on monsters - but Jonathan is an absolute wet blanket of a character throughout. I found him really annoying this season and it didn't help that he was stuck in the most boring storyline.
[/quote]

I talked about it in my blog post, but one of the most innovative things the show does is (accidentally) make the sensitive artistic loner into the safe, boring end of the love triangle, and the dumb jock into the hard-luck hero.
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It's the classic James Hurley / Bobby Briggs situation!

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post

I talked about it in my blog post, but one of the most innovative things the show does is (accidentally) make the sensitive artistic loner into the safe, boring end of the love triangle, and the dumb jock into the hard-luck hero.


I will make a point to bookmark your blog one of these days, Schwartz. That way, I can steal the clever things you say in order to make the things what I say look betterer.

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It's opposite Star Wars.  Jonathan gets the girl (who's not his sister... hopefully, especially since they're dating in the real world/upside down) and Steve got to, well, literally shoot first.

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AAnyone think Will is probably Hopper's kid?
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It would explain douche husband's treatment of him somewhat.  Didn't they imply her and Hop was in high school, if it happened at all?   So team Jonathan would make more sense... unless she went back to Hop, and then, well, why not both?

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Yeah, I think Jonathan being a Hopper makes more sense chronologically.

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They keep dropping subtle hints.



In the first episode, one of the deputies asks if Hop and Joyce used to get it on. And in season two, I think it's Reiser or some other medical person refers to Hopper as Will's dad and there's a weird beat.

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AI'm hoping Joyce got it on with a ghoul played by Michael Keaton.

[SPOILER=Warning: Spoiler!]Hopefully she didn't say his name three times.[/SPOILER]
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Quote:

Originally Posted by D.T. View Post
 

They keep dropping subtle hints.



In the first episode, one of the deputies asks if Hop and Joyce used to get it on. And in season two, I think it's Reiser or some other medical person refers to Hopper as Will's dad and there's a weird beat.


I took that as more of a setup for an eventual rekindling of their relationship than a clue about Will/Jonathan's parentage.  I think they were trying for the world's most low-key love triangle with Hopper and Joyce having natural chemistry while Bob was a healthier option for her.

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AWell you did it. You made me like Steve. Goddamn it Stranger Things.
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Warning there are spoilery thoughts and rampant speculation within.



Watched it.  It's very good.  I think much of my fondness stems from it generally doing everything right where many a 'kids show gone primetime' went wrong (Lost, Heroes, you name it).


The sore thumb of episode 7 illustrates this to some extent.  The writing in that would be right at home in a lot of other worse shows under network time pressure.  What's interesting to me is that I think you could take every scene of it as written and spread out the Chicago adventure over two or three episodes and the whole thing would work fine.  Space everything out and we'll fill in the the blanks of some developing character and relationships and things would not be so rushed and cramped and convenient.


But they hit other timeline problems doing that as that means El has to be gone and Hop 'otherwise occupied' for longer in ways that you can't just humerously handwave away like you can with, oh, let's say,  useless self absorbed parents in 80s domestic malaise.  Either way it seems like something of an after thought. The episode count too.  This was an 8 episode series where El goes to find her mum and maybe finds out about other 'numbers' (her name does imply after all) and comes back again.  Seems like anyway.  The Janey goes to Hollywood should have been season 3, but anyway...



I get in trouble writing the show myself enough as it is.  The implications of season one seemed to me that El had to destroy herself to defeat the demogorgon.  That kind of thing produced a lot of speculation about their symmetry, which kinda didn't happen.  So she ends up just transported there?  Bit boring.  I was half expecting she had to reconstitute herself through pure will (yuk yuk) like Dr Manhattan.  Maybe she did and she doesn't know it.  At any rate they are doing a pretty good job addressing stuff people think are loose ends so far so hopefully there's more.  Either way, thanks to this kind of thing and how rapidly people comprehend and deal with the weirdness in the show the overall effect is not as spooky and mystical as I'd like.  But that's something I'll just have to deal with I suppose.


But who knows.  Later people might try to shoot her or something and she's caught off guard and it turns out she's actually shadow creature herself.  Or constituted of vine matter like Swamp Thing or something.  I don't know how that would go down with people if she wasn't a 'real girl' anymore.  hmmm...



I was also a bit surprised that Max becomes pretty converted to the cult of El without really seeing her do anything except look like she's a junior member of Human League or New Order or something.  I'm torn on that.  It was probably too early to have some scene where she lays waste to a strike force of demodogs, even though many fans would have loved it.  She is still a fragile kid on some level.  But in her comeback I was expecting at least something like the return of Gandalf where they shoot at her by mistake, bullets get deflected or some such.


Anyway, probably more waffle later.

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AI was surprised to see people complaining the storyline giving final rest to and justice for Barb as a reaction to some online movement.

If this show has shown us anything, it’s how it differs from other mainstream shows of this ilk by treating the audience with a degree of intelligence and respect by showing that things aren’t all neatly tied up in the end and the heroes aren’t alway (hardly ever) typically square-jawed and easy on the eye. Let’s face it, if this show was made by any other channel, those weird-looking (and completely ordinary for that) kids wouldn’t get a chance in hell of being front and center, neither would David Harbour as the overweight sweaty mess that he is. Isn’t one of the reasons we love this show so much because the depictions of the characters are people we can identify with? The heroes are no longer pretty hollywood types. The kids are awkward-looking and act scared, the adults are fat, sweaty, borderline-alcoholic, and single parents. This show is a hit, not because of some generic alternative dimension sci-fi bobbins, it’s a hit because the characters and their actions depicted in it are realistic and we can identify with them.

And so when there’s some sort of faux movement online for justice for Barb and then people say the storyline in S2 was a reaction to that - Really? Based on the way the characters and the story had been written in S1 it makes perfect sense that loose ends aren’t neatly tied up and a year later people are still dealing with the consequences and fallout. Nancy, Steve and Barb’s parents coming together each month makes perfect sense and I’m sure was written well before any cutesy Justice for Barb meme appeared on tumblr or wherever.
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Stale Elvis?



Pretty fresh.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Stale Elvis View Post

And so when there’s some sort of faux movement online for justice for Barb and then people say the storyline in S2 was a reaction to that - Really? Based on the way the characters and the story had been written in S1 it makes perfect sense that loose ends aren’t neatly tied up and a year later people are still dealing with the consequences and fallout. Nancy, Steve and Barb’s parents coming together each month makes perfect sense and I’m sure was written well before any cutesy Justice for Barb meme appeared on tumblr or wherever.

Yeah that drives me nuts.  It's online pundits making themselves simultaneously vital to the direction of the show, then saying the show should ignore all of it because they're tired of reading online punditry (except theirs one presumes).



"Your addressing of important, logical narrative matters pre-emptively bores me sir!  Because I am tired of reading other people flag up these matters as potential material for your production!


It concerns me that you would seemingly let such concerns influence the writing of your televisual production.  Attached is my helpful guide to avoiding this appearance of undue influence by the needlessly concerned!



Sincerely


Concerned


Maine"



I don't know where it's supposed to lead if productions have to avoid everything the audience flags up just because that's annoying or something.  For one thing, the audience is bigger than online fandom (or at least you'd hope so, and you should write so regardless) and for another, it isn't pandering just because the audience got what they wanted (even though the two look alike).

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A
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stale Elvis View Post

I was surprised to see people complaining the storyline giving final rest to and justice for Barb as a reaction to some online movement.

If this show has shown us anything, it’s how it differs from other mainstream shows of this ilk by treating the audience with a degree of intelligence and respect by showing that things aren’t all neatly tied up in the end and the heroes aren’t alway (hardly ever) typically square-jawed and easy on the eye. Let’s face it, if this show was made by any other channel, those weird-looking (and completely ordinary for that) kids wouldn’t get a chance in hell of being front and center, neither would David Harbour as the overweight sweaty mess that he is. Isn’t one of the reasons we love this show so much because the depictions of the characters are people we can identify with? The heroes are no longer pretty hollywood types. The kids are awkward-looking and act scared, the adults are fat, sweaty, borderline-alcoholic, and single parents. This show is a hit, not because of some generic alternative dimension sci-fi bobbins, it’s a hit because the characters and their actions depicted in it are realistic and we can identify with them.

And so when there’s some sort of faux movement online for justice for Barb and then people say the storyline in S2 was a reaction to that - Really? Based on the way the characters and the story had been written in S1 it makes perfect sense that loose ends aren’t neatly tied up and a year later people are still dealing with the consequences and fallout. Nancy, Steve and Barb’s parents coming together each month makes perfect sense and I’m sure was written well before any cutesy Justice for Barb meme appeared on tumblr or wherever.




Jeez, man, Finn Wolfhard isn't that ugly.
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A[quote name="Tomas Mejor" url="/community/t/159081/stranger-things-season-two-netflix-discussion-brought-to-you-by-overlord/180#post_4391634"]Yup.  He wasn't drinking, so there's really no excuse for that mistake.

It's needle-drop OD; they're really interrupting the flow of the show for me.
[/quote]

Completely took me,out of the show....at worst, he should've given a questioning "wait, are you Siouxsie?"; I grew up in a town similar to Hawkins in the mid 80 s (the gang are 2 yrs older than me) and by age 14 or 15 I knew who she was
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A[quote name="Chaz" url="/community/t/159081/stranger-things-season-two-netflix-discussion-brought-to-you-by-overlord/240#post_4392328"] 

  Just to be on the safe side
[SPOILER=Warning: Spoiler!]How long till people start shipping Billy and Mrs Wheeler?[/SPOILER]
[/quote]

Ha, in my case it was "IMMEDIATELY"
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A[quote name="D.T." url="/community/t/159081/stranger-things-season-two-netflix-discussion-brought-to-you-by-overlord/270#post_4392744"]There are lots of subtle references. Astin's line about pirate treasure. Lucas mirroring Winston's "Judgment Day" line from Ghostbusters.
[/quote]

Also, how hilarious was Lucas and Mike fighting,over who gets to be Venkman?
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A[quote name="D.T." url="/community/t/159081/stranger-things-season-two-netflix-discussion-brought-to-you-by-overlord/270#post_4392521"]Just finished the season. Team Steve for life. Some other thoughts:


[SPOILER=Warning: Spoiler!]
Team Steve. I don't get how assertive, badass Nancy is into whiny, sheepish Jonathan who cries and hides his eyes when shit gets real, while Steve puts his ass on the line all the time and becomes a genuine hero in the end. Shit, Bob was a more brave, awesome character than Jonathan who honestly doesn't do much at all this season. I hope Steve finds someone better than Nancy in season 3.

[/SPOILER]

Anyway, I fucking love this show. The wait for season three is going to be brutal.[/quote]

Jonathon was nails in S1 though.

I dunno, I like all 3 principals. I dont feel either S or J is necessarily a good match for Nancy in the long run, but with Jonathon, as Conspiracy Guy points out, "shared trauma."

Also I think "hides his eyes and cries when shit gets real" is a bit unfair. Its pretty apparent he loves his brother as much as anything in the world, and it must be rough to have to be the person inflicting pain on him.
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A[quote name="Dalyn" url="/community/t/159081/stranger-things-season-two-netflix-discussion-brought-to-you-by-overlord/360#post_4395700"]


[SPOILER=Warning: Spoiler!]I thought it was interesting that they were teaching Eleven to use the dark side of the Force. Use your hatred and anger. Shit, she even force choked that dude. In the final episode, I was totally expecting the dark side to not be working good enough for her, then she would think of Mike and Topper and Tap into that light side energy and kick ass. But yeah, interested to see if they totally retread Star Wars im the next couple if seasons.[/SPOILER][/quote]

"We don't win by killing what we hate but by saving what we love."
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A[quote name="Malloy" url="/community/t/159081/stranger-things-season-two-netflix-discussion-brought-to-you-by-overlord/450#post_4398471"]

That said, I do think in Season 1, we were given signs that the Mom knows a lot more than her kids assume. But I think we have to forgive her for being distracted by hot teenage mancandy this season.
[/quote]

To be fair, kids got a lot more leash in the 80s. And theres probably a justified feeling that your 2 children, one of whom is an 18 yr old amd the other is 13 with a core group of friends, both of whom are good kids, probably just forgot to call, as opposed to assuming they're being hunted by interdimensional monsters.
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I was pleasantly  surprised to see season 2 is on DVD at Target. I just went in for razors but I couldn't fight the impulse to buy it.

  I also bought the official companion a couple of weeks ago: its a fun read. The last chapter gives some hints about season 3. The Duffer bros say it will be the funniest, as well as the goriest.
I've got good news and I've got bad news. The bad news is that I have lost my way. The good news is that I'm way ahead of schedule.
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Hey cool. How are the DVD bonus features?
Git' in under mah belly!
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Nonexistent, same as every other physical release of a Netflix show.
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After-order cancelled!
Git' in under mah belly!
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Rewatches of this show still deliver.

Season 1 is definitely stronger, but apart from that one bum episode, S2 is still a good time. It’s great to have on in the background while you’re working. Plus there’s a 4 hour YouTube vid of all the music from the show to have running when you’re working too. The track called ‘Kids’ is one of my favourite pieces of soundtrack music for years.

Think I’ll put the show on again in the background again today.
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I do think season 2 is as good as 1, it just lacks iconic moments like 11 saving Mike when he jumped off the cliff and 11 flipping the van.
I've got good news and I've got bad news. The bad news is that I have lost my way. The good news is that I'm way ahead of schedule.
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Yeah.
“I call upon you to stop this musical now,” she said to the board. “You tear a community apart if you don’t.” -Prachi Ruina                                                            
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Someone with more initiative and Stranger Things hype than me will start a new thread but there's a teaser out for S3 and it's the Stranger Things S3 logo coming together with Hardy Boys-esque episode titles.

It made me laugh.
the empire never ended
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(12-10-2018, 11:17 AM)wasp Wrote: Someone with more initiative and Stranger Things hype than me will start a new thread but there's a teaser out for S3 and it's the Stranger Things S3 logo coming together with Hardy Boys-esque episode titles.

It made me laugh.

I'm your huckleberry.
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Battle of Star Court is a great title. Of course its going to be an ode to Dawn of the Dead. I know the easy criticism of this show its that its just ripping off what came before it, but Romero admitted Night of the Living Dead was influenced by I Am Legend. My point is everybody takes their cues by what came before them.
I've got good news and I've got bad news. The bad news is that I have lost my way. The good news is that I'm way ahead of schedule.
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