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The 9th Film by Quentin Tarantino
#36

So...Samuel L. Jackson is Manson, right?

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#37

Samuel Jackson is whatever character drops the second most N-Bombs.

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#38
AI don't think this going to be a Grindhouse parody of a real life horror. I think it will attempt to be something more than that and other than that and still be in very poor taste. There might be a way to make a movie of this that isn't in poor taste but I don't think Tarantino will find it. I think this sounds like an Oscar bait Devil's Rejects..
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#39

I feel like there's probably more to this story than we're aware of yet.  It's such a well-covered event (in film, television, books, etc.) that I have to believe Tarantino isn't interested in doing another retelling.  My guess is that the murders would be a backdrop for a larger story to be told.  I'm fully prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt at this stage.



Plus, Tarantino is not stupid.  There's no way he's blind to the possibility of insensitivity if he filtered such a horrific real event (one still prominent in the public consciousness) through a DEATH PROOF-style aesthetic.

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#40
Quote:

Originally Posted by Belloq87 View Post
 

 There's no way he's blind to the possibility of insensitivity if he filtered such a horrific real event (one still prominent in the public consciousness) through a DEATH PROOF-style aesthetic.



Yeah, he was really receptive to the completely reasonable responses around Django.

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#41
Quote:

Originally Posted by Boone Daniels View Post
 


Yeah, he was really receptive to the completely reasonable responses around Django.


We could argue about how "reasonable" those responses were, but I'll concede that you have a point.

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#42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belloq87 View Post
 

We could argue about how "reasonable" those responses were, but I'll concede that you have a point.



I think there were degrees of those responses, some of which were maybe more forceful, but others that were more nuanced, and worth engaging with.



I want to be excited about this. I've been amped about the looks back/histories/novels based on Manson that have floated back into the consciousness in the past couple of years. I think it's high time for a new film about the project. Tarantino is exceptionally talented. I just don't know if he can - or should - do it.

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#43
Quote:

Originally Posted by Boone Daniels View Post
 

I want to be excited about this. I've been amped about the looks back/histories/novels based on Manson that have floated back into the consciousness in the past couple of years. I think it's high time for a new film about the project. Tarantino is exceptionally talented. I just don't know if he can - or should - do it.


If I thought he was simply going to be staging the events of that night through his particular style and proclivities, I would agree with you.  I just don't believe that's going to be the case (though I'm prepared to be proven wrong).

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#44

I'll offer a counterpoint to my negative nancy-ing. I've always loved this piece that Sheldon Roth, Eli Roth's father, wrote about Inglorious Basterds:



Quote:

 In that moment, I felt that my beloved boychik was carrying out wishes of mine from my Brownsville, Brooklyn childhood, wild longings from a lifetime of agonizing over the Holocaust. I felt a powerful mixture of rescue, revenge, redemption, relief and a strange grief. My son was sacrificing himself for all of us. He was doing what I could not. And I cried.



Many friends have told me of similar personal, powerful emotions in response to this film, emotions that were also joyously pleasurable. Yet, I have listened to many post-screening Q-and-As and heard the confused questions of those who are puzzled, distanced by the film because it is “fantasy.” It strikes me that what these questions fail to take into account is that there are two kinds of facts: historical facts and emotional ones. Emotional facts, or feelings, are a condensed, animal form of personal history; expanding them tells the story of one’s life. Feelings are just as much a reality as facts. Art, similarly, functions as a condensed statement about life. When art resonates with an audience, those emotions are real — they cannot be dismissed because the story is “historically inaccurate.” Quentin Tarantino understood it was more important to be emotionally accurate than to follow a story previously written by history. Art must resonate with a truthful emotion inside the viewer in order for it to survive, and, if not, it falls by the wayside, disregarded and dies a forgotten work.


Now, obviously, obviously, obviously, you cannot compare the Holocaust to the Manson murders, simply on degrees of evil alone. But you could make the argument, certainly, that Manson occupies a place in the American imagination akin to our cultural depictions of Hitler. For boomers, he - and maybe Bundy - are the ne plus ultra of modern evil, with Manson the avatar for the "death of the sixties" in all that entails.



And I think an approach similar to what Roth articulates above could work, focusing on the emotional facts and feelings of what the Manson murders were and what they did to our psyche as Americans. And I think that's an approach Tarantino could achieve, and it would really be something. I can also see him, so interested in shifting timelines and the past colliding with the present, riffing on this idea from Joan Didion's essay The White Album, about how the Manson murders became this story we tell ourselves, this folklore that lacks clarity:


Quote:

 “We tell ourselves stories in order to live...We look for the sermon in the suicide, for the social or moral lesson in the murder of five. We interpret what we see, select the most workable of the multiple choices. We live entirely, especially if we are writers, by the imposition of a narrative line upon disparate images, by the "ideas" with which we have learned to freeze the shifting phantasmagoria which is our actual experience.”


Now that I think about it, an approach similar to James Cox's WONDERLAND, where Val Kilmer plays John Holmes and tells the story of the Wonderland Murders, but through a variety of differing perspectives, with the actors taking on different approaches depending on who's telling the story. (REVERSAL OF FORTUNE and ALPHA DOG both do this as well.) 

And, of course, Didion brings up the other great quote from that essay that's in Tarantino's wheelhouse, too:



Quote:

 “This mystical flirtation with the idea of ‘sin’—this sense that it was possible to go ‘too far,’ and that many people were doing it—was very much with us in Los Angeles in 1968 and 1969…The jitters were setting in. I recall a time when the dogs barked every night and the moon was always full. On August 9, 1969, I was sitting in the shallow end of my sister-in-law’s swimming pool in Beverly Hills when she received a telephone call from a friend who had just heard about the murders at Sharon Tate Polanski’s house on Cielo Drive. The phone rang many times during the next hour. These early reports were garbled and contradictory. One caller would say hoods, the next would say chains. There were twenty dead, no, twelve, ten, eighteen. Black masses were imagined, and bad trips blamed. I remembered all of the day’s misinformation very clearly, and I also remember this, and wish I did not: I remember that no one was surprised."
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#45
ASo is this gonna be some kind of Purge movie then where they manage to fight back and fight off the Manson family and Tate and her child and all or some of the other victims survive? That's what this is gonna be isn't it..
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#46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraid uh noman View Post

So is this gonna be some kind of Purge movie then where they manage to fight back and fight off the Manson family and Tate and her child and all or some of the other victims survive? That's what this is gonna be isn't it..


I hope he does a Basterds type "alternate history" just so the current state of outrage culture can implode.



maybe they don't "fight off" the Family in the beginning. Perhaps they die as they historically did but rise up as zombies to revenge themselves Kill Bill style.

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#47
Quote:

Originally Posted by TzuDohNihm View Post
 

I hope he does a Basterds type "alternate history" just so the current state of outrage culture can implode.


The over/under on "thinkpieces" this thing will generate is currently at, oh, a billion.

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#48

I think there are ways to do, perhaps, an alternate history of the Manson murders without going quite that far.

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#49
Quote:

Originally Posted by Belloq87 View Post



My guess is that the murders would be a backdrop for a larger story to be told.  I'm fully prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt at this stage.



Ahhh, so you think it's going to be a commentary on Trump vis-a-vis the cult of personality of the Manson Family?

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#50
ABest case scenario....this'll be Tarantino's Summer of Sam..
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#51
Quote:

Originally Posted by Boone Daniels View Post



And I think an approach similar to what Roth articulates above could work, focusing on the emotional facts and feelings of what the Manson murders were and what they did to our psyche as Americans. And I think that's an approach Tarantino could achieve, and it would really be something. I can also see him, so interested in shifting timelines and the past colliding with the present, riffing on this idea from Joan Didion's essay The White Album, about how the Manson murders became this story we tell ourselves, this folklore that lacks clarity:




Now that I think about it, an approach similar to James Cox's WONDERLAND, where Val Kilmer plays John Holmes and tells the story of the Wonderland Murders, but through a variety of differing perspectives, with the actors taking on different approaches depending on who's telling the story. (REVERSAL OF FORTUNE and ALPHA DOG both do this as well.) 

And, of course, Didion brings up the other great quote from that essay that's in Tarantino's wheelhouse, too:




Hunter S. Thompon's Wave Speech comes to my mind reading what you've posted here.

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#52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraid uh noman View Post

Best case scenario....this'll be Tarantino's Summer of Sam..


Oh, man. This would be good, especially since Manson allows you to do a broad canvas stretching from 1967 or '68 all the way to '70-'71.

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#53
Quote:

Originally Posted by TzuDohNihm View Post
 


Ahhh, so you think it's going to be a commentary on Trump vis-a-vis the cult of personality of the Manson Family?


Exactly...



... not.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Fraid uh noman View Post

Best case scenario....this'll be Tarantino's Summer of Sam..

Or Tarantino's ZODIAC.

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#54

I honestly don't think Tarantino has the sublety or self-control to give us his ZODIAC.



An INHERENT VICE by way of the Manson murders, though, that's a thing he could do.

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#55

Just want to echo Boone's shout-out to the "Manson in Hollywood" season of You Must Remember This. Longworth's take and rundown of everything that led into the murders and what happened after is a masterpiece of historical storytelling.

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#56
Quote:

Originally Posted by Boone Daniels View Post
 

I honestly don't think Tarantino has the sublety or self-control to give us his ZODIAC. 



An INHERENT VICE by way of the Manson murders, though, that's a thing he could do.


Perhaps not, but I think he could pull off the "examination of paranoia and obsession against the backdrop of a very specific period of time" kind of thing.



You're right that he could probably do an INHERENT VICE-ish sort of thing, but as one of the few who don't "get" INHERENT VICE, I'd hope for something a little different.  Or at least more conventionally satisfying.

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#57
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dent6084 View Post
 

Just want to echo Boone's shout-out to the "Manson in Hollywood" season of You Must Remember This. Longworth's take and rundown of everything that led into the murders and what happened after is a masterpiece of historical storytelling.



http://www.youmustrememberthispodcast.co...h?q=manson



This discussion got me to pull down Jeff Guinn's Manson book from a few years back off the shelf. I've been working my way through his Jonestown book, so I might go back to this.

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#58
Quote:

Originally Posted by Belloq87 View Post
 

Perhaps not, but I think he could pull off the "examination of paranoia and obsession against the backdrop of a very specific period of time" kind of thing.



Oh, I absolutely agree with this, and one angle I can definitely see him doing, and doing well, is how Manson, before and after, filtered out and affected the whole Hollywood/Los Angeles community.



The Guinn book opens with Dennis Wilson and his buddies hanging out at one of the clubs on the Sunset Strip, and how that was just the state of things in the late 60s among the young music and Hollywood community - they were just, like, regular people, man.



Snap forward to Steve McQueen packing heat at Sharon Tate's funeral.

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#59
Quote:

Originally Posted by Carnotaur3 View Post

I'm with fraid. Manson and his story is too dark, dusturbed and deep for someone like Tarantino to futz around with as some crazy mix of genres.


Yeah. this makes no sense.  If he can make a movie about slavery work, he can make a movie about this sunject work.   This is way more in his wheelhouse.

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#60
AYou can only go up from Hateful 8.

I don't get the pre outrage. There is no way this will be enjoyably violent.
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#61
A[quote name="Bailey" url="/community/t/159473/the-9th-film-by-quentin-tarantino/30#post_4321472"]
Yeah. this makes no sense.  If he can make a movie about slavery work, he can make a movie about this sunject work.   This is way more in his wheelhouse.
[/quote]
I totally acknowledge that a movie that works in ways I could have never anticipated could result from this. It may come out and be great and nobody has any issues with it. I just can't picture that movie. And if I were a filmmaker, I wouldn't touch this story with a ten foot pole..
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#62

To me one of the keys to appreciating Tarantino is finding the moral stakes in all his movies.  People who look at his movies as a collection of exploitative, violent scenes do him a disservice.  He's always saying something.  Whether you agree or disagree with it is another thing altogether.  I see no reason he won't find an interesting angle to pick at here.

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#63
AIf there's a difference here from his usual topics is he's that playing with real people this time. It's the story of the murder of a pregnant woman within living memory for a lot of people. You know Tarantino's not going to be coy in his treatment of it, not to mention the high probability of QT's Manson ending up as a quotable, charismatic anti-hero. Spare a thought for poor Roman Polanski!

All that aside it's a great topic for Tarantino. It'll probably be like I Spit On Your Grave goes to Woodstock.
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#64
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul C View Post

If there's a difference here from his usual topics is he's playing with real people this time. It's the story of the murder of a pregnant woman within living memory for a lot of people. You know Tarantino's not going to be coy in his treatment of it, not to mention the high probability of QT's Manson being a quotable, charismatic anti-hero. Spare a thought for poor Roman Polanski!

Well, he DID kill Hitler. And Goebbels. And Goering.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Bailey View Post
 

To me one of the keys to appreciating Tarantino is finding the moral stakes in all his movies.  People who look at his movies as a collection of exploitative, violent scenes do him a disservice.  He's always saying something.  Whether you agree or disagree with it is another thing altogether.  I see no reason he won't find an interesting angle to pick at here.


I think there's more than meets the eye, but I thought the subtext of Django and Hateful Eight were both so jumbled and contradictory that I'm not sure they said what they were trying to say. (I speak as someone who likes both movies.)

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#65
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul C View Post

 You know Tarantino's not going to be coy in his treatment of it, not to mention the high probability of QT's Manson ending up as a quotable, charismatic anti-hero. 


Manson was a greasy, racist, angry sexual predator and murderer. My biggest fear is that this is not just a probability, but all but guaranteed.

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#66
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mangy View Post
 


I think there's more than meets the eye, but I thought the subtext of Django and Hateful Eight were both so jumbled and contradictory that I'm not sure they said what they were trying to say. (I speak as someone who likes both movies.)



I can see that with H8, which was a deeply misanthropic screed.  Less so with Django Unchained, which I think portrayed slavery as an absolute evil.

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#67
double
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#68
Quote:

Originally Posted by Boone Daniels View Post
 


Manson was a greasy, racist, angry sexual predator and murderer. My biggest fear is that this is not just a probability, but all but guaranteed.



Kurt Russell was a "cool" stuntman who ended up being a sad, pathetic, dork who got the shit beaten out of him in Death Proof.   Just sayin'.

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#69
A[quote name="Fraid uh noman" url="/community/t/159473/the-9th-film-by-quentin-tarantino#post_4321439"]Best case scenario....this'll be Tarantino's Summer of Sam..[/quote]
Jokes on you, because Summer of Sam fucking rules!
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#70
A[quote name="AtomTastic" url="/community/t/159473/the-9th-film-by-quentin-tarantino/60#post_4321587"]
Jokes on you, because Summer of Sam fucking rules![/quote]
I did say BEST case scenario!
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