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HBO: WESTWORLD SEASON 2
(05-14-2018, 02:43 PM)MichaelM Wrote: If my guess about that mystery ball/digital brain is right, we might be getting more yet.

That seems a little obvious, though I’d take it to get Hopkins back.  My guess is that it’s William’s wife as part of a massive elaborate final ‘fuck you’.
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Given that she's had all of three seconds of screen time, that doesn't make much sense to me. Fault the series all you want, but it's not prone to pull unearned/out-of-nowhere "twists" like that.

My bet is either Ford or the real Arnold.
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I think it’s Arnold, given that Wright’s character two weeks in the future lacks the scar from the bullet wound that Bernard has in the main timeline.
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Ooooh I missed that detail.

ETA: Plus that would make sense given how the season started out.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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Loved this episode. Also, the actor who played William's father in law deserves an Emmy nomination for his work.
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Peter Mullan in anything always reminds me of former Chewer Syd and his "Show Syd your fugee face!" avatar. He was a good poster.
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How do know for sure that the real Arnold isn't already back, and just having cognitive issues as he adjusts?
If you're happy, you're not paying attention.

Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny: 
Glad that you guys worked that out amongst yourselves.

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I think it is Arnold in the 2 weeks later timeline, which is why he seems so out of it. But it seems likely that the main timeline is still Bernard, since he has the scar from last season.
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(05-14-2018, 08:54 PM)could432 Wrote: I think it is Arnold in the 2 weeks later timeline, which is why he seems so out of it. But it seems likely that the main timeline is still Bernard, since he has the scar from last season.

This. The being who woke up at the shore, in the beginning of the season, is nuArnold. No temple scar, and he seems to remember only things from either before the biological Arnold was alive or during the two weeks between Ford's death and the "present."

The being with the temple scar we see with Charlotte Hale, then Dolores, and then Elsie: Bernard.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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Bernard already was nuArnold, though. I hope they don't start hanging too much narrative thread on "OMG HE'S NOT A ROWBUT, HE'S A ROWBUT2.0!!" twists.
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He wasn't really, though. He had a similar backstory to Arnold, but didn't have any of Arnold's memories.
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Exactly. Bernard is Ford's homage to Arnold, but he's not actually Arnold.

nuArnold - and I'm open to better nicks, as that was the best I could do on short notice - is, for all intents and purposes, Arnold.

BTW, I rewatched the season opener and confirmed: no temple scar on the man who wakes on the beach and is with Delos security in the present (2 weeks post uprising). The person we see with Hale and Elsie: temple scar.

So either Bernard gets a new body or Arnold's digitized mind gets a new body.

The story about Delos senior seems to suggest the latter.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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(05-15-2018, 07:41 AM)MichaelM Wrote: Exactly. Bernard is Ford's homage to Arnold, but he's not actually Arnold.

nuArnold - and I'm open to better nicks, as that was the best I could do on short notice - is, for all intents and purposes, Arnold.

Arnew.

The deliberate obtuseness of this show can honestly annoy me a lot at times (that whole wrinkle with Bernarnold remembering what was happening with Ellie just made me sigh exasperatedly). I'm honestly just expecting the end to be someone going IN THE END WE WERE ALL ROBOTS.

But then I get stuff like everything with William and James Delos and his big hero moment saving Clifton Collins Jnr. and his family and it keeps me coming back.

The 'Previously On' segment kind of tipped their hands with Badass Lady being William's daughter but I loved the reveal regardless and that should make for some interesting watching.

Also, James Delos really reminds me of Ridley Scott. That's all I can think whenever he's on screen.
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So....no thoughts or reactions?

Maeve's storyline was a lot of fun - I'm on board just for Sanada and Kikuchi alone, and I loved the violent mayhem that results from Maeve's "whispers" on the host mesh network.

And Dolores' arc indicates that she's essentially becoming an oppressor, rather than a liberator.

Another quick but clear shot of "Arnold" in the present: no temple scar. So he's either a rebuild or nuArnold, and I'm betting on the latter. (And along those lines: stealing from a Vanity Fair article on Episode 4, I think the Season Opening dialogue between Dolores and Arnold/Bernard is actually Dolores talking to nuArnold.)

But this is the first time this season I've felt like we were spinning wheels. As delicious as the Shogun World stuff was, it also felt a lot like filler rather than content that's moving the story forward.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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"Shit! Ninjas!" killed me.
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Sizemore continues to be the gift that keeps on giving.

FYI, Joanna Robinson's articles on the show for Vanity Fair are pretty great and worth your time.

And holy crap:

Teddy's died 5,746 times.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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I continue to be engrossed with Maeve's storyline.

I'm also getting thoroughly bored with Dolores' storyline. All that's missing is the black top hat, cape and mustache-twirling. She's turned into Snidley Whiplash.
I can't stand to see myself go through the motions, that bring me back into these same old sad emotions.
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Y'all some fucking missing the point folks up in here. Delores is some straight up horror movie shit with her flat affect which works gang-busters. Poor Teddy, indeed.

Also, I am intrigued that y'all think there are two timelines again. I wasn't quite sure and I still don't think there is but I will have to go back and rewatch the whole Bernard scar thing....
Survival is the name of the game, William. The scruffiest hippie is my messenger...do not expect radiant messengers of light. Expect the flawed, the maimed in body and spirit. It's all a film run backward...the Atom Bomb through the Manhattan Project to the formula...E=MC2.
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Well, there are explicitly two timelines. Bernard running around with Elsie in the immediate aftermath of the uprising, and (nu?) Bernard running around with Skarsgaard's recovery team later on.
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This season there are two basic timelines: the present, which is two weeks after Dolores shoots Ford and the hosts rebel; and the near-past, covering the events during those two weeks.

It gets blurry because we're experiencing screwy memories and recall from Bernard, similar to what we had with Dolores in S1.

I don't think I'm missing the point with Dolores at all!
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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[Image: westworld-transformation.gif]
Survival is the name of the game, William. The scruffiest hippie is my messenger...do not expect radiant messengers of light. Expect the flawed, the maimed in body and spirit. It's all a film run backward...the Atom Bomb through the Manhattan Project to the formula...E=MC2.
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Episode Four was Dolores free and Man in Black centric. Excellent.

Episode Five, first 20 or so minutes, Dolores free and Thandie-centric (Shogun World!). Excellent.

Then Dolores re-enters the story and it grinds to a halt again.
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I'm of the same opinion, OverLord. Maybe I just don't 'get it' but it really seems that Dolores has changed into 'the' cartoon-ish heavy that the series had avoided using up to this point. I guess it's the role that Hopkins' character has cast her in for his game but it seems to me, at least, that she's lost some of the nuance that she had last season. Mind you, "...fucking ninjas" is a tough sell to compete against.
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DOLORES
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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The problem, I think, is that they are making Dolores into the "heavy", but...of whose narrative? She's riding around in circles, acting like she's about to blow up Alderaan, but she's not threatening William, or Bernard, or Elsie, or Maeve, or lil' hemsworth, or anyone that we have even an ostensible level of sympathy for.
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She's the heavy of the general 'Host Freedom' narrative. Nothing she's doing is actually good for the cause of the Hosts becoming free. She's using the rest of the hosts in exactly the same way she and the rest of the hosts have been used. Kill 'em, bring 'em back, use them, kill 'em again, fuck 'em, and when their personality is no longer convenient for what she wants, reprogram them to be what she needs them to be.
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(05-26-2018, 11:00 PM)schwartz Wrote: The problem, I think, is that they are making Dolores into the "heavy", but...of whose narrative?  She's riding around in circles, acting like she's about to blow up Alderaan, but she's not threatening William, or Bernard, or Elsie, or Maeve, or lil' hemsworth, or anyone that we have even an ostensible level of sympathy for.

True.  She's off her in her own universe with an unclear plan for episode after episode while the stupidest military personnel in history frontally charge her fortified position en masse or she spars with still-a-robot Cyclops.  

Also, of anyone, she should know the futility of a small band of robots trying to take on humanity, she has actually seen what's out there and she should know better.  And why does she care so much about a bunch of robots she knows aren't sentient and are only connected to her due to some programmed narrative backstory (I have the same question about Thandie, but she at least has indicated she is fully aware of the paradox and is delivering her scenes convincingly).

Remove the Dolores storyline, and I am loving the second season. MiB and his spawn have both been incredibly entertaining.

Unfortunately, Dolores's unfocused and poorly acted tale of revenge has been 30-40% of the show thus far.
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So I spent the morning catching up on this now that most everything else has gone to summer hiatus...

Gotta agree the Dolores stuff just makes everything grind to a halt. It’s not that Wood’s acting is bad it’s just the story seems to be headed no where, other than the end result being Teddy dead in a lake.

The Mave stuff has been fantastic, although I don’t know if I like that they are further turning her into a massive cheat code. Gotta think it’s finally gonna catch up to her at some point.

The William stuff has been really good and I like the Bernard/Arnold stuff too. I’m glad we got some kind of resolution on what happened to Elsie. I can’t recall if they said what happened to her last season, she just kinda disappeared.
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So.....some spoilers!!!!

here


we


go


for


real


So....the opening exchange between "Bernard" and Dolores seems to confirm it's nuArnold, since she's essentially doing the same test that William did with nuDelos.


Now we know how the train tunnel got blown up. I'm guessing the tactical team that blew off Stubbs gets chewed up by Dolores & Co. 

And of course the big deal is: the return of Ford. As the secret rogue AI running the park.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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(05-27-2018, 10:20 PM)MichaelM Wrote: So....the opening exchange between "Bernard" and Dolores seems to confirm it's nuArnold, since she's essentially doing the same test that William did with nuDelos.

And given the combination of her 'no, that's not right' reaction and what she did to Teddy when his default character wasn't up to the task, I have to wonder if Dolores is going to be brute-forcing nuArnold by adjusting his code directly until he matches her memory of him, or if she's going to stick with the methodology that was being used for Delos, which seemed to be less about code than it was the interface.
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I did like that we saw a new version of Teddy last week. Bitter/sarcastic Teddy with him referencing a couple times how Dolores had him changed and how she could do it again.
"Every romantic comedy should just be called "Tryin' to Fuck" - Patton Oswalt
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I'm thinking Delores is going to regret rebooting Teddy before long.
Originally Posted by ImmortanNick 

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That's my review.
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(06-03-2018, 06:37 PM)headless fett Wrote: I'm thinking Delores is going to regret rebooting Teddy before long.

Well...she did just kill the dude that could have changed him back. And Teddy is floating dead in the lake when the team finds them.
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Anyone else confused as fuck at this point?
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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Yuuuup.
If you're happy, you're not paying attention.

Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny: 
Glad that you guys worked that out amongst yourselves.

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