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AVENGERS: INFINITY WAR - Post-Release Thread
My problem with Newsome's take, aside from general whinginess, is that it seems to give kids such a weird combination of too little and too much credit.  Assuming, for the sake of argument, that a) the film's primary and overriding focus is/should be to impart a lesson to abused children about their abusers, and b) kids are mindless simpletons that are helpless to do anything but passively accept what a screen, any screen, flashes at them.  I would still say that it's a weird assumption that they will look at the "sympathetic" depiction of Thanos and take away that their abusers really love them deep down and they should just accept love on these violent terms.  I'd think that in the most simplistic terms, the movie is showing them that it doesn't matter if their abuser talks about loving them or even cries about how they "have" to abuse them; they are still the BAD GUY and fighting him is the most important thing the heroes do.

Broadly speaking, I am skeptical of any take on a film that hinges not on the reviewer's actual interpretation of the work, but a hypothetical (mis)interpretation that someone else might conceivably take away from it.  When we criticize the Transformers films for imparting shitty values to kids, we do actually believe the movie has those shitty values, not just hat kids might maybe mistake them for being there.

There are a few outliers - probably starring Ed Norton around the turn of the century - wherein I think you can make a more complex argument that the film doesn't fully commit/sell its final turn, and results in a film where the nominal message condemning certain behaviors is overpowered by the enthusiastic depiction of those actions throughout.  I don't think Infinity War is anywhere close to that level of complexity, and you can only really put it in that category by contorting to imagine that the audience is made up entirely of hypothetical children of a specific background who are precisely smart enough to comprehend this one exact level of subtext, but not dumb enough to miss it entirely or sharp enough to read the greater context in which the villain is presented.
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I don't think it's about kids comprehending it precisely.

It gets into that even more nebulous territory of simply registering it emotionally as something normal.

And as I said previously, I think the trickiest balance when it comes to kids is exactly that split between giving them both too much and too little credit to their intelligence (emotional and cognitive).

And I think anyone arguing on either side of a topic (such as this) does this.


I would say Mikey does believe INFINITY WAR to have bad values in this regard in addition to feeling it is bad for kids in abusive relationships.

good callout to that certain ednorton movie!
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Yeah, but kids man. They sure do suck.
"I'd rather have hope...than nothing at all."
-Illyana Rasputin, X-Men: Omega #1

"But the public, knowing what it wanted, spinning happily, let the comic books survive."
-Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451

Twitter: @BartLBishop
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Yeah I don't have children of my own.

That's why I still like them!
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Nooj doesn’t get it.



Bart gets it.
If you're happy, you're not paying attention.

Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny: 
Glad that you guys worked that out amongst yourselves.

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I get it because I know I don't get it!!!

GET IT???
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Bart is for everyone.
"I'd rather have hope...than nothing at all."
-Illyana Rasputin, X-Men: Omega #1

"But the public, knowing what it wanted, spinning happily, let the comic books survive."
-Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451

Twitter: @BartLBishop
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except kids!
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Bart is PG-13, but the Bart Ultimate Cut is R.
"I'd rather have hope...than nothing at all."
-Illyana Rasputin, X-Men: Omega #1

"But the public, knowing what it wanted, spinning happily, let the comic books survive."
-Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451

Twitter: @BartLBishop
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I'll watch both!
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I've heard Bart Ultimate Cut is pretty pretension. Theatrical release may be the way to go.
If you're happy, you're not paying attention.

Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny: 
Glad that you guys worked that out amongst yourselves.

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As Neil has said: kids are dicks.

I love my two daughters to death and think they're wonderful people.

Parents will understand these are not contradictory statements.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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I have never understand the "kids suck," "kids are dicks," "kids are terrible but I still love 'em" comments. Some kids are shitty ... but certainly not all, and I've never felt that way about my own (or most of their friends, for that matter).
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People insist I'm a dick...
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(09-03-2018, 09:38 PM)Overlord Wrote: I have never understand the "kids suck," "kids are dicks," "kids are terrible but I still love 'em" comments.  Some kids are shitty ... but certainly not all, and I've never felt that way about my own (or most of their friends, for that matter).

I could give a lengthy story as an example - something that, in fact, happened just a month ago. But I'll forego that. And I could cite many examples of when my kids were much younger. But again, I'll forego it.

I'm saying it sort of jokingly. Sort of. I think the idea is that kids are more outwardly and obviously selfish than adults, and that can often feel dickish to the people around them.

My daughters are awesome. I love them unreservedly and unconditionally. But they can be jerks, at least, sometimes.

ETA: I also think it's a sort of joking way of parents to express the reality of their lives often and frequently taking a distant back seat to their kids' needs - school, events, sicknesses, lessons, etc.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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Kids man, wooh. The suckiest.
"I'd rather have hope...than nothing at all."
-Illyana Rasputin, X-Men: Omega #1

"But the public, knowing what it wanted, spinning happily, let the comic books survive."
-Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451

Twitter: @BartLBishop
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Nearly half of my kids are absolutely great . . .
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Git' in under mah belly!
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Just sitting here thinking about dads who go to their son's Little League games wearing shirts that say "Kevin's Dad" or some shit.
"I'd rather have hope...than nothing at all."
-Illyana Rasputin, X-Men: Omega #1

"But the public, knowing what it wanted, spinning happily, let the comic books survive."
-Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451

Twitter: @BartLBishop
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Watched INFINITY WAR again last night.

Fourth viewing.

Goddamn, this movie just works.

Interestingly, despite being heavily CGI, this one doesn't give me pixel fatigue like ULTRON or GOTG2. Some of that is the character work. Some of that, though, is just the gorgeous design work. I love that Voramir (Vorimir?) seems to be in perpetual dusk; there's a deeply Romantic aspect to the skies and mountains.

And Cap's "Oh, God" at the end remains heartbreaking.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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I wonder how good Infinity War is going to look (going by their track record so far - how much better will it look) when you can watch it back to back with [Infinity War Sequel Placeholder Title].
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I had similar thoughts about the next Avengers film. This may sound dumb, but I'm wondering how they're going to get two+ entertaining hours of it. I guess they can make the quest to find a way to take down Thanos complicated enough to eat screen time, but since we know it's going to happen - and we know most of the dusted characters will be coming back - I'm wondering how they're going to infuse it with drama and tension.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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(09-04-2018, 12:10 PM)MichaelM Wrote: I had similar thoughts about the next Avengers film. This may sound dumb, but I'm wondering how they're going to get two+ entertaining hours of it. I guess they can make the quest to find a way to take down Thanos complicated enough to eat screen time, but since we know it's going to happen - and we know most of the dusted characters will be coming back - I'm wondering how they're going to infuse it with drama and tension.

A fair concern, but based on some of the informed speculation out there (DO NOT google "Avengers 4 set pictures"), plus where ANT-MAN AND THE WASP leaves Ant-Man, I think there's going to be enough plot stuff to sustain a couple hours.

In terms of the drama and tension, I think that's going to still be heavily in play. Yes, we know the dead characters are coming back... but we don't know which of the old Avengers roster are going to have to bite it to bring them back. Because I do think there will be more loss coming.
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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(09-04-2018, 12:10 PM)MichaelM Wrote: I had similar thoughts about the next Avengers film. This may sound dumb, but I'm wondering how they're going to get two+ entertaining hours of it. I guess they can make the quest to find a way to take down Thanos complicated enough to eat screen time, but since we know it's going to happen - and we know most of the dusted characters will be coming back - I'm wondering how they're going to infuse it with drama and tension.

Well, for starters, last I heard they said they were going to make it 3 hours long.
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(09-04-2018, 12:10 PM)MichaelM Wrote: I had similar thoughts about the next Avengers film. This may sound dumb, but I'm wondering how they're going to get two+ entertaining hours of it. 

Musical numbers and lots of them!
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The Russos are three for three with me, and the secret weapons of Marvel Studios, Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely, have been guiding these characters as far back as Captain America: The First Avenger. I have complete confidence they'll stick the landing.
"I'd rather have hope...than nothing at all."
-Illyana Rasputin, X-Men: Omega #1

"But the public, knowing what it wanted, spinning happily, let the comic books survive."
-Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451

Twitter: @BartLBishop
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I wasn't articulating a lack of faith in the Russos. More just I'm puzzled as hell as to how they're going to pull it off.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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Nothing guarantees the deceased characters come back exactly the same as when they left. What will they remember? Will we get a reset right to the moment they died so it's like they never did? Or will they know and be changed by the experience?

I'm also betting at least one somehow says, "No thanks, I'm good."
My karmic debt must be huge.

----------

My blog: An Embarrassment of Rich's
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Eh, I’m betting altered timeline. The snap never happens.
Brigadier Cousins on PSN
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that would stink!
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Keeping important characters dead?


I mean, WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!?!?!?
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the kids can go spit!
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On top of correctly guessing the title of the first episode of the new season of Doctor Who months in advance, I just got an invite to a secret sub on Reddit for all survivors of the Snap. Things are definitely looking up today!
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