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AVENGERS: (4th Film) - Pre-Release Thread
#1
I'll edit the title once the actual title of the 4th Avengers film is announced.

By its nature, this thread will contain spoilers for the prior films including AVENGERS: INFINITY WAR.  You have been warned.

In the meantime, speculate below.  I'm particularly curious as to what the title of the film will end up being.
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#2
AVENGERS: HOLY SHIT THAT JUST HAPPENED
"Looking at the Trump administration, I'm starting to think I was too hard on the characters in Prometheus."  --  MrBananaGrabber
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#3
HUGE FUCKING SPOILERS FOR INFINITY WAR, OBVIOUSLY.

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It seems obvious that somehow they eventually wrest the gauntlet from Thanos and/or get the Stones themselves and redo all the deaths and either kill or imprison Thanos somehow.

Some folks are speculating Tony will end up having to sacrifice Cap for the Soul Stone. I can see that happening for symmetry and pathos.

I think Loki stays dead. Gamora comes back, as does T'Challa and Spidey. In fact, I'd guess only maybe Cap and Loki stay dead.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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#4
Basically, I'd guess the old team goes on One Last Ride to rescue everyone whose contracts aren't up yet from Thanos. Cap, Thor, Tony, Widow, Hawkeye, and Hulk all go off into the sunset at the end whether that means they die or retire.

People who stay dead: Cap, Loki, Heimdall, maybe one or two others. None of the people who got ganked in the last ten minutes stay dead, though. Both Doctor Strange and Captain Marvel end up doing something CRAZY in the third act to kick the shit out of Thanos, along with Bruce finally turning back into the Hulk.
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#5
Yeah, I think it's safe to assume everyone who was disintegrated in the final minutes of the film comes back.

And I'm guessing Gamora is brought back, too.

But Cap (assuming he goes), Loki, Heimdall: all dead, dead, dead.

I think Thor becomes king in New Asgard. Tony retires/becomes stationary head of New Avengers. Nat retires or goes solo.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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#6
The only last 10 minutes of the movie death that I think is final is (SPOILERS AHOY IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN IW)
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Vision. As for Nat retiring, isn't a Black Widow/Female MCU character team-up movie in the works?
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#7
I'm really, really curious to know who the "Control" that Fury wanted to contact might have been. It's a strong hint that he never really left the spy game. He just hid deeper.
"Looking at the Trump administration, I'm starting to think I was too hard on the characters in Prometheus."  --  MrBananaGrabber
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#8
I'm fine with Vision staying dead, but the character never did anything for me in the first place. I don't really care one way or another, but if I had to vote, I'd vote to keep him dead.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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#9
(04-27-2018, 02:03 PM)Misfit Wrote: The only last 10 minutes of the movie death that I think is final is (SPOILERS AHOY IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN IW)
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Vision. As for Nat retiring, isn't a Black Widow/Female MCU character team-up movie in the works?

There are rumors that the BW movie is about how she joined SHIELD in the first place. But we'll see, I guess.
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#10
AVENGERS: WARLOCK

That's my guess.
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#11
Avengers: Now Hiring.
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#12
Avengers: A World Without Heroes?

It's going to be hard to sell this as the final film... when they literally just did that (and blatantly lying about it) with Infinity War.

The real ending to Big...
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#13
(04-27-2018, 04:08 PM)filmnerdjamie Wrote: Avengers: A World Without Heroes?

It's going to be hard to sell this as the final film... when they literally just did that (and blatantly lying about it) with Infinity War.



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#14
Just make it West Coast Avengers. Open with Hawkeye saying something like "Glad I wasn't with those dudes" and then he and Wonder Man go get tacos.



(04-27-2018, 02:17 PM)Dent6084 Wrote: There are rumors that the BW movie is about how she joined SHIELD in the first place. But we'll see, I guess.

Ugh, I hope not.
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#15
I really love the idea of the OG Avengers (and Rocket!) making a final stand and probably sacrificing themselves to bring in the new guard. Making it a real passing the torch type story.

And I can't wait to see more Thanos. Fuck yeah, Thanos.
"I mean don't get me wrong fucking the wolf man is impressive but ugh." - Waaaaaaaalt
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#16
I’m a bit interested about what fills out the plot of the follow up (presumably) 3 hour film. Infinity War packed in a lot. 5 gems are collected, 4 henchmen are introduced and dispatched, numerous showdowns in various locales, etc. I’m sure they have thought long and hard about what story’s they want to tell, but I can’t guess at what it may be.

For comparison sake, the Infinity Gauntlet Comic Book goes places that I can’t see them doing here. It goes really cosmic, and then Thanos is ‘defeated’ only for a new threat to emerge. And the Avengers/heroes are mostly inconsequential to the main turning points in the plot.
PSN: Kriegaffe
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#17
(04-28-2018, 07:18 AM)kriegaffe Wrote: I’m a bit interested about what fills out the plot of the follow up (presumably) 3 hour film. Infinity War packed in a lot. 5 gems are collected, 4 henchmen are introduced and dispatched, numerous showdowns in various locales, etc. I’m sure they have thought long and hard about what story’s they want to tell, but I can’t guess at what it may be.

For comparison sake, the Infinity Gauntlet Comic Book goes places that I can’t see them doing here. It goes really cosmic, and then Thanos is ‘defeated’ only for a new threat to emerge. And the Avengers/heroes are mostly inconsequential to the main turning points in the plot.

The Russo Brothers said the next film will be longer and could even be 3 hours long.

http://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/russo...ours-long/

Since this is probably the last time out for some people, provided none of the time is wasted (they've had a good track record in this department so far), I'm all for it.

Total guesses on my part:

They probably are going to deal with the loose ends from Thor 3 and this film, as to what happened to Valkyrie et al. Maybe they'll add Thor to Guardians of the Galaxy 3 and that's when they'll resurrect Gamora, perhaps. Presumably all the other Guardians will be resurrected in Avengers 4 at some point.

Almost the entire new to newer line up got vapourised. Seems to suggest it's the old guard who's having one last hurrah.

Steve Rogers +/- Tony Stark could be on the way out (that Soul Stone idea is a good one - Steve meeting the Red Skull once again might complete a circle there), James Rhodes/War Machine might be joining them (either Sam Wilson/Falcon is replacing him in effect or maybe even going with him as well - I'm leaning towards their not permanently retiring both, though).

There's a chance Vision could be done here as well. Maybe they bring him back for at least Part of Four with whatever Shuri managed to do, though.

Sebastian Stan/Bucky - maybe - I mean basically they could clear the decks of everyone connected to Steve Rogers. I wouldn't be surprised if they take more than just Steve if he goes, though.

Apparently, there's going to be a big fight scene at the end, though and from what I heard (but it's not confirmed), it's possible that at least some of the dusted crowd will be undusted for that one. Seems likely, really.
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#18
I'm actually really pleased the cast has been halved, because although I had a lot of fun with Infinity War it was damn exhausting. An Avengers 4 that actually takes the time with the original six Avengers and pays off some long-running plot threads will be great.

Then have everyone else come back to life for the big finale. They have their own movies (except poor Sam, ho ho ho), it's not like they're missing out or anything.
"I'd rather have hope...than nothing at all."
-Illyana Rasputin, X-Men: Omega #1

"But the public, knowing what it wanted, spinning happily, let the comic books survive."
-Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451

Twitter: @BartLBishop
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#19
I'd have zero problem with all that "died" being absent from Avengers 4 for 95% of the film.
They did their over stuffed one. Let's bring it back and only have 56 characters duke it out.
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#20
I think it's pretty obvious that Stark will be the one to reverse things. it's the only explanation for why Strange trades the Time Stone for Stark's life despite earlier having claimed he'd happily sacrifice him; a statement he made before he'd used the stone to view the only timeline where Thanos eventually lost.

"If I can shoot rabbits, then I can shoot fascists" -  The Manic Street Preachers

Steam ID: iammrsaxon / Blizzard ID: MrSaxon#2283 / Xbox ID: MR SAX0N
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#21
Strange doesn't trade the Time Stone for Tony's life. He's lying when he does that. Strange knows that the only way to beat Thanos is to let Thanos win, because Thanos has said once he balances the universe he'll retire.

Presumably a Thanos with only five Stones would just travel the universe waging war on everyone forever.
"I'd rather have hope...than nothing at all."
-Illyana Rasputin, X-Men: Omega #1

"But the public, knowing what it wanted, spinning happily, let the comic books survive."
-Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451

Twitter: @BartLBishop
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#22
How are you so sure? Couldn't it be equally possible that Stark dies at that moment in every one of the failed timezones and Strange sees him as pivotal to reversing what Thanos eventually does?

"If I can shoot rabbits, then I can shoot fascists" -  The Manic Street Preachers

Steam ID: iammrsaxon / Blizzard ID: MrSaxon#2283 / Xbox ID: MR SAX0N
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#23
After Thanos's snap, Tony's looking at Strange and Strange says something like, "It was the only way." Then he fades away.

Strange knew there was only one way to appease Thanos. Maybe that also involves Tony fixing things down the line. We'll see!
"I'd rather have hope...than nothing at all."
-Illyana Rasputin, X-Men: Omega #1

"But the public, knowing what it wanted, spinning happily, let the comic books survive."
-Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451

Twitter: @BartLBishop
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#24
Current predictions:

Strange was doing Time-Stone shenanigans during the fight using Tony, Spidey and the Guardians as a distraction once they failed to get the Gauntlet, and the PTSD visions of Thanos’s coming are caused by Strange trying to send him a warning in the past. Once Thanos is defeated, the visions will be gone and Tony will survive to settle down with Pepper.

Strange’s Time-Stone usage involved brining in a future version of the Avengers ala Young Avengers/Avengers Forever from another timeline to fight with them, and we’ll see Stature and Morgan Stark/Iron Man as part of that group. Maybe Miles Morales Spidey? Unlikely but I can dream. 

The Gauntlet was clearly almost destroyed by the strain of the finger snap. Undoing the snap would probably be enough strain to put it out of commission for good. I think Cap ends up with the Gauntlet, uses it to undo the snap, and dies From the backlash with the Gauntlet also being destroyed. But we then get a scene of him in the Soul Stone, getting his dance with Peggy in the afterlife to reward his sacrifice. The non-snap deaths (Heimdall, Loki, Gamora and Vision) won’t be undone, at least right away. If Gamora comes back, it’ll be in GotG Vol 3.

Hulk will be drawn out by Widow either dying or being in mortal danger, and Banner finally taking control of the Hulk persona to save her.

Further down the line, I can see them doing an adapted version of Disasssembled/House of M with Wanda overexerting her powers and losing it trying to bring Vision back as a future event.
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#25
The biggest question for me is what Strange was trying to facilitate, Thanos finishing off his collection, or Tony Stark continuing to draw breath. I guess it’s both, ultimately, but seeing how it plays out will be fascinating.
Brigadier Cousins on PSN
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#26
I wonder if Strange left himself a back door within the Time Stone. Some way to create disharmony with the other stones.
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#27
I kept figuring Strange had put a spell on the Stone. There's still room for something like that to come up.

I've seen theories, too, that Ant-Man could end up hiding in the Soul Stone or something and emerge at an opportune time. We'll see!
"I'd rather have hope...than nothing at all."
-Illyana Rasputin, X-Men: Omega #1

"But the public, knowing what it wanted, spinning happily, let the comic books survive."
-Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451

Twitter: @BartLBishop
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#28
At the end of the film, while trying to take everything in, I was a little confused as to the disposition of the Gauntlet...
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...it appeared to still be in Wakanda, but severely damaged. Visions of Thanos later seemed to feature him without the Gauntlet, so I'm wondering if he can even summon it again. If he can't access it, then one of my theories about the mind gem helping undo Thanos' plan (as I understand it, the mind gem has parts of Tony, Bruce, Vision, Jarvis, and maybe even Ultron in it) might not work. My sister texted me after the film wondering if Thanos was dead...that perhaps he had inadvertently put himself in the "dying half" camp when he snapped his fingers. That's an intriguing idea, and perhaps at some point he will realize his folly and try to escape. Like some of you, I noticed the color of the environment Thanos was in at the end, and wondered if it had something to do with the soul stone. Thanos is enamored with death, but at the same time isn't on a suicide mission. If the price of the soul stone is giving up that which you love, perhaps Thanos was tricked into giving up his own life as well?

And I second everyone who's mentioned Steve's last scene (if he dies) absolutely must be with a vision of Peggy, finally sharing the dance they should have had over 70 years ago.
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#29
It looked like he was still wearing the glove, but it was damaged. Considering he teleported away, I think he can still use the gems individually (in that case, the Space Stone) but not combined. The glove was the key to using them all together, hence why he had to have it forged.

Whether or not he's dead/in the Soul Stone is up in the air. I'd believe it.
"I'd rather have hope...than nothing at all."
-Illyana Rasputin, X-Men: Omega #1

"But the public, knowing what it wanted, spinning happily, let the comic books survive."
-Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451

Twitter: @BartLBishop
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#30
I think they'll go all-in with the happy ending, and everyone's coming back from the dead - even Loki. Stark settles down with Pepper, Time Stone allows Cap to be reunited with Peggy in the 1940s, all the dead Asgardians from the ship are restored to life with Thor as the new Odin. The old line-up are allowed to retire gracefully, and the new line-up to step up. Last words of the film are "Avengers...Assemble!"

Edited to add: The "Cap is dead meat" narrative reminds me of a lot of the pre-release speculation about Nolan maybe killing Batman in "Dark Knight Rises," a much edgier film than these. Nolan was savvy enough to exploit that possibility through the movie while still delivering the happy ending for Bruce Wayne that people (me included) wanted.

Lest we forget these films have a huge following amongst children, and Marvel are aware of the narrative expectations - particularly from parents - that come with that.
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#31
I simply read that scene as Strange having seen Stark alive in the one future where the heroes win.  Thanos' homeworld isn't where Stark is supposed to die.  I do expect that Stark probably will get some sort of redemptive, justice delivering, hero moment, where he finally puts his now long-running fear of failure subplot behind him, in whatever form it takes.
"Looking at the Trump administration, I'm starting to think I was too hard on the characters in Prometheus."  --  MrBananaGrabber
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#32
He Who Must Not Be Named has an interesting review up on his new Buddhist-ish website, presenting an arguement that it’s about the election of Donald Trump.

But it’s not! Because the Doctor Strange movie is about that. I wrote a big long post about it and everything!

This should be in the other thread. But what can you do?
Brigadier Cousins on PSN
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#33
I just hope we get a payoff in Avengers 4 for Thanos' saying he knew who Stark was.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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#34
I thought Thanos implied with a line of dialogue that the Stones allowed him a degree of omniscience, hence how he knew of Tony.
"I'd rather have hope...than nothing at all."
-Illyana Rasputin, X-Men: Omega #1

"But the public, knowing what it wanted, spinning happily, let the comic books survive."
-Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451

Twitter: @BartLBishop
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#35
(04-28-2018, 05:43 PM)Reasor Wrote: I simply read that scene as Strange having seen Stark alive in the one future where the heroes win.  Thanos' homeworld isn't where Stark is supposed to die.  I do expect that Stark probably will get some sort of redemptive, justice delivering, hero moment, where he finally puts his now long-running fear of failure subplot behind him, in whatever form it takes.


all the theorizing right now reminds me of all the LOST/Pirates/Matrix/star war threads that always ended up straining a lot more than the actual movies would

I'm assuming what you said above is the most accurate.  Strange didn't do anything beyond making sure Stark survived matching the one winning scenario he witnessed.

everything else is just us DORKS having fun imagining the overly intricate plot contortions that big crowd-pleasing movies like this rarely ever go for

(04-28-2018, 06:23 PM)bartleby_scriven Wrote: I thought Thanos implied with a line of dialogue that the Stones allowed him a degree of omniscience, hence how he knew of Tony.

this is how I read it
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