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STAR TREK: PICARD (CBS All Access)
The important thing is that when Bones said "sonovabitch" in SFS it was so natural to the character that nobody complained.
"I'd rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth."--Steve McQueen
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(02-04-2020, 04:09 AM)hammerhead Wrote: The important thing is that when Bones said "sonovabitch" in SFS it was so natural to the character that nobody complained.

Especially "Dammit Jim!", which he never even uttered in TOS but has become a staple phrase of his starting with the films.

I'm not really hung up about characters swearing. THE VOYAGE HOME made it a joke, but characters were swearing in the movies before and after IV came out, especially once censorship became more lax on television. Patrick Stewart wouldn't have been able to say "son of a bitch" in 1987 television, but by 2001 it was hard not to hear Scott Bakula say that for every time he's referring to a Vulcan diplomat.

Funny thing is that TNG tried to make it a thing for Picard to swear with the french word "merde" whenever things went wrong. I don't think it ever lasted beyond the second season.





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(02-04-2020, 02:22 AM)Paul755 Wrote:
(02-03-2020, 04:49 PM)leto ii Wrote:
(02-03-2020, 03:56 PM)Paul755 Wrote:
(02-03-2020, 09:48 AM)leto ii Wrote: More out of place than, say, Kirk blurting out "dipshit" in Star Trek IV? Or Data saying, "Ohhhhhh SHIT" in Generations? It’s not like George Carlin’s four-letter words are suddenly a brand-new thing for Star Trek, here.

he didnt slip dipshit in IV. It was “Double Dumbass” and it was hilarious.




Well, what do you know. Never caught that before. 

Point still remains about the f-bombs. It sounds weird.  

And in both instances in Trek 4, Kirk is just parroting back the “colorful metaphors” to fit in.

I can definitely say that Kirk parroting back "dipshit" sounded weird sitting in that movie theater back in late 1986. Right after we got back home, I even remember my mother commenting about it to my step-grandmother when my brother and I were giving our hot-takes on the film (our car got robbed in the mall parking-lot too, which was the other big topic of conversation). These types of things have always gradually happened in the franchise, and are a completely natural and organic part of Star Trek, despite our initial low-altitude perceptions at the time.
"These guys are pros, Michael. They're gonna push the tension 'till the last possible moment before they strip."

 
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Well, now I'm having a Mandala Moment. Did Bones ever say "Dammit" at all on TOS? I know Kirk said "Hell."
"I'd rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth."--Steve McQueen
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I’ve been doing a TOS re-watch (in the middle of S2 right now) and honestly I can’t recall. If he did I just didn’t notice.
"Every romantic comedy should just be called "Tryin' to Fuck" - Patton Oswalt
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We're in a place where bleeping a swear word makes it more obvious than just letting it go. We know what they said. Example, Sigourney Weaver, Galaxy Quest.
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(02-04-2020, 07:32 PM)hammerhead Wrote: Well, now I'm having a Mandala Moment. Did Bones ever say "Dammit" at all on TOS? I know Kirk said "Hell."

Not on the TV show, but a bunch of examples in the TOS films, and not just from McCoy (using the awesome Star Trek Script Search site, which allows you search the biggest ST transcript-site on the Internet):

http://scriptsearch.dxdy.name/?page=resu...ammit,%7D)

http://scriptsearch.dxdy.name/?page=resu...it%22,%7D)
"These guys are pros, Michael. They're gonna push the tension 'till the last possible moment before they strip."

 
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(02-04-2020, 07:32 PM)hammerhead Wrote: Well, now I'm having a Mandala Moment. Did Bones ever say "Dammit" at all on TOS? I know Kirk said "Hell."

Using the search tool above, both "damn" and "hell" were both uttered in TOS but not used to the effect of swearing. It was only Kirk's "let's get the hell out of here" that was the one exception.
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this new episode was pretty clunky in the writing/acting department.

But Hugh was a welcome presence, I like what they did with him. And Rios has potential even though, again, the writing behind him was clunky as hell.

All of Raffi's and Picard's early scenes were incredibly awkward, like they couldn't quite get their takes lined up, but it started working better towards the end.

The trauma mythology of former Romulan assimilated was an interesting thought that I am almost certain must have come from Chabon, but I hope it amounts to more than just rando characters screaming, "SHE'S THE DESTROYAH"

Action scene was cool. Weird that those little action bits have been strong points in an opening act that's been almost all set-up and character introduction. I think Hanelle might be a little more natural at action than she is the drama? I presume this was the end of her block.

Despite its stagger to get to where it's going, can't help but be a little pumped by the end of that episode.
the empire never ended
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There's a whale/Voyage Home based Raffi joke in there somewhere, just haven't cracked it yet. Dug the new guy, but having your EMH be you, and your only friend is a bit weird. Think Pill is a mole.
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(02-06-2020, 07:41 PM)scottieferguson Wrote: There's a whale/Voyage Home based Raffi joke in there somewhere, just haven't cracked it yet. 

It'll need to have something to do with Pill's character being a carbon copy of Catherine Hicks' character from TVH.


I did like the confirmation that the Vasquez Rocks location is actually supposed to be Vasquez Rocks, Earth, this time around.
"I'd rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth."--Steve McQueen
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I though Raffi hammering Picard about his Chateau and nice furniture was interesting. Basically calling him out for “having money” while she lives in a trailer. I thought stuff like that had been eliminated in the 24th century on Earth.

I’m also curious to find out which Federation worlds were planning to secede over helping the Romulans. Would have had to been some heavy hitters like the Vulcans and Andorians if the Federation was willing to burn Mars over it.

Cool to see Zhaban and Laris showing off that Tal Shiar training.
"Every romantic comedy should just be called "Tryin' to Fuck" - Patton Oswalt
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Commodore Oh was really rocking those sunglasses!

And apparently that character loves French New Wave cinema???

Quote:“It was an homage to her. To Anna Karina!” she says with delight. “I’m not sure whose decision was it, Akiva [Goldsman], Michael Chabon? I don’t know. I believe it said in the script that she wore sunglasses in Anna Karina-style. She was one of my favorite actresses, and it was extremely prescient because she passed away a short time later. I was so honored to embody a small part of her style.”

https://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/star-tre...mmodore-oh
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(02-07-2020, 12:01 AM)Paul755 Wrote: I though Raffi hammering Picard about his Chateau and nice furniture was interesting. Basically calling him out for “having money” while she lives in a trailer. I thought stuff like that had been eliminated in the 24th century on Earth.

I’m also curious to find out which Federation worlds were planning to secede over helping the Romulans. Would have had to been some heavy hitters like the Vulcans and Andorians if the Federation was willing to burn Mars over it.

Cool to see Zhaban and Laris showing off that Tal Shiar training.

Re: Raffi comparing her place with the chateau, just because everyone has a home and food doesn't necessarily mean everyone has everything equally. Not everyone can have a place with a view of the Golden Gate, and not everyone has a French chateau and vineyard that's been in their family for generations. For all her complaining, Raffi's place looked a hell of a lot more appealing than what a lot of people have right now.

Picard mentioned in early seasons that materialism and the pursuit/accumulation of wealth for such purposes had been eliminated but there was still clearly whole sections of the Alpha/Beta quadrant that still exchanged currency for goods/services. I doubt Kasidy Yates runs a freight shipping firm out of the goodness of her heart, etc. It's just people in the Federation don't need any purely to enjoy a good standard of living in the Federation is all.
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I think your referring to Picard dressing down that 20th century rich guy they thawed out in TNG S1. But I think he was talking just about humanity not all peoples. Which is why I was puzzled by her reaction to his “Chateau and old furniture”. We’ve always kinda been lead to believe poverty, struggle, etc.. had been eliminated on the homeworld.

I would assume Starfleet does “pay” the crews for buying/trading outside the Federation. Or at the very least off Earth. I mean, you always saw Starfleet crews playing Dabo on DS9, Uhura tried to use credits to buy the Tribble etc..

It’s just one of the bigger questions of how exactly society works in the 23rd/24th century.
"Every romantic comedy should just be called "Tryin' to Fuck" - Patton Oswalt
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Yeah, Raffi's one to talk, camping out on a protected site like Vasquez Rocks with no visible neighbors.

What's the population of 23rd-century Earth anyway?
"I'd rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth."--Steve McQueen
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I think Mars getting basically destroyed combined with presumably a refugee/resettlement crisis from all the people who managed to get away from the Romulan supernova has somewhat shifted the Federation's economic priorities plus opened up a lot of opportunities for some less than savory activities to happen much more flagrantly than before.
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(02-08-2020, 12:35 AM)Fafhrd Wrote: I think Mars getting basically destroyed combined with presumably a refugee/resettlement crisis from all the people who managed to get away from the Romulan supernova has somewhat shifted the Federation's economic priorities plus opened up a lot of opportunities for some less than savory activities to happen much more flagrantly than before.

Not to mention, even 20 years after the fact, the Dominion War still has to be having an affect.
"Every romantic comedy should just be called "Tryin' to Fuck" - Patton Oswalt
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(02-08-2020, 12:39 AM)Paul755 Wrote:
(02-08-2020, 12:35 AM)Fafhrd Wrote: I think Mars getting basically destroyed combined with presumably a refugee/resettlement crisis from all the people who managed to get away from the Romulan supernova has somewhat shifted the Federation's economic priorities plus opened up a lot of opportunities for some less than savory activities to happen much more flagrantly than before.

Not to mention, even 20 years after the fact, the Dominion War still has to be having an affect.

Yeah, if you consider that between TOS and TNG, the only real conflict we heard of was a war with Cardassia and everything else was just Cold War style tensions with the Kilngons, Romulans et al. Then in a few short years you have a massive number of ships destroyed in the first Borg attack, a bunch more in the second, and a full blown war with the Dominion that lasted a couple of years, saw several worlds fall, scores of ships and personnel lost,etc.

Basically, the Federation experienced a generation of shit that could easily have had a negative effect on its attitude and principles. It’s easy to act decently when things are going well, maybe not so much when you’re lurching from one crisis to another.
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Jonathan Frakes directing! I wouldn't call Frakes an auteur of any sort but it is kind of funny how there are some recognizable aspects of his style. The slow drift wide establishing shots of the "village" on Vashti reminded me so much of some similar shots on Earth in First Contact. I can't claim that the episode was a directorial showcase on the whole but there were some really strong moments that I think Frakes' direction elevated, like the "ancient Borg ritual" scene or some of the quiet conflict moments that Picard had with Raffi and then with Elnor. Also loved the little flourish they did with the imposing of hologram Ramdha face over Soji's.

I honestly still am not sure what to think of this show, though. I enjoy watching it and every episode has had some great moments, but man is it clunky in terms of the overall plot and then how it executes or tries to bring together some of its narrative details. Chabon had sole writer credit on this one and, frankly, I expected a little better, some of the dialogue really dips hard into cliche (and we even get some explain-some-mysteries villain exposition). And for a show that takes a slower pace, it still somehow feels like we aren't getting certain things fleshed out the way they need to be, so I am not sure the storytelling is being economical in an effective way.

The other aspect that is kind of weird is that so much of what is happening in terms of the current drama with Picard and this team he is assembling is totally dependent on a backstory that didn't exist until this show came about. We have been given some exposition and a few flashbacks of what that backstory is, but it is hard to get too invested in something that feels so situationally manufactured just to prop up the current scenario. I had hoped we were kind of getting past the backstory/set-up phase--now that Elnor is on board, perhaps we can finally move into dealing with THIS story and not this lost series of what happened between Nemesis and now.
the empire never ended
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Using Nemesis as a jumping-off point is asking a lot of the casual (or critical) fan, just on its own.
"I'd rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth."--Steve McQueen
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Very true!
the empire never ended
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Things happened in Nemesis that the human brain is capable of retaining? I remember dune buggies, young drugged out noncommittal Tom Hardy, people standing, people walking down hallways. The rest is a blur.

Was the villain plot some Romulan thing? I should just Wikipedia it.
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There was Riker making love to Troi...and then Vampire Ron Perlman stared at the screen. Then Troi screamed at the screen. And then Riker stared bewildered at Troi. And then Data blew up the big ass ship by throwing himself into a reactor and his special needs brother whistled at the end.

Or, as I once said in a review, a date forced me to see Maid in Manhattan the same weekend that Nemesis came out. It took me a couple of weeks to finally catch Nemesis. Then I realize Maid in Manhattan was the superior movie and there was no God.
"Wilford Brimley can't be bothered to accept praise. He doesn't act because he thinks people will enjoy his work. He acts because it's his goddamned job." --Will Harris, AV Club
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You forgot when Picard rams the Enterprise into Hardy’s ship.

But yeah, basically the Romulans have a secret clone of Picard (Hardy) that kills everyone in the Romulan government and seizes power. He intends to destroy Earth but he also needs genetic material from Picard to help a genetic defect from the cloning.

Riker finally accepts a promotion to Captain and marries Troi, Data dies saving Picard but not before transferring all his memories to a 3rd brother that pre-dates him and Lore, the Enterprise gets fucked up and Worf returns to Starfleet after leaving at the end of DS9.
"Every romantic comedy should just be called "Tryin' to Fuck" - Patton Oswalt
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Jesus Christ.  The canon after TNG ended really is a shit show.

I'm continuing to sort of enjoy this show, but it just doesn't feel a lot like Star Trek and still feels quite a bit like Star Wars.  For example a Ronan Romulan warrior feels that cuts heads clean off for Picard feels like something out of Rogue One, but it would NEVER happen in TNG.
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(Yesterday, 05:52 AM)freeman Wrote: Jesus Christ.  The canon after TNG ended really is a shit show.

Most canon of the TNG movies and VOYAGER really do feel like plots made up by five year olds, especially the way Paul755 describes NEMESIS. The big exception was DS9, which was the only show for the remainder of 90s Trek that had storytelling that felt credible. That's because after TNG ended all the best writers of that show like Ron Moore migrated to DS9, while Berman kept his focus on the TNG movies and VOYAGER. For example: On the very same night at 8pm you'd have DS9 featuring a heavy emotional character story, and then next at 9pm on VOYAGER you'd have the Captain Janeway and her cocky ship pilot turn into giant salamanders and make little baby salamanders. I'm literally not kidding.
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I just watched Trials and Tribblelations on Deep Space Nine.

I enjoyed it very much.
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(Yesterday, 11:14 AM)freeman Wrote: I just watched Trials and Tribblelations on Deep Space Nine.

I enjoyed it very much.

It was an excellent tribute to Star Trek's 30th anniversary at the time. 

VOYAGER also did their 30th anniversary episode themselves, featuring Sulu commanding the USS Excelsior in scenes set during THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY. It's not terrible, but it pales in comparison. Takei is awesome though.





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I'll take left-field standalone eps over attenuated arc plots most any day.
"I'd rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth."--Steve McQueen
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That's fair enough. But it's not the 20th century anymore.

I think the only sure way Trek will return to the TOS/TNG episodic format of yesteryear is if CBS decides to put a show on their broadcast channel, which to my understanding mainly consists of procedural style shows. Bump the episode count to 26 episodes per season so that stretches out the budget. It'll be the return of bottle shows to save the big f/x spectacle for sweeps week.

Otherwise, I think arcs are just gonna stick as that's how all streaming shows function now. Aside from Black Mirror and the Twilight Zone reboot, are there any streaming shows that feature an episodic format with no arcs?
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(Yesterday, 10:59 AM)mr. stockslivevan Wrote: For example: On the very same night at 8pm you'd have DS9 featuring a heavy emotional character story, and then next at 9pm on VOYAGER you'd have the Captain Janeway and her cocky ship pilot turn into giant salamanders and make little baby salamanders. I'm literally not kidding.

It's worse, weren't those salamanders supposed to be what humans will eventually evolve into?
If I could change to liquid, I'd fill the cracks and bend the rocks.
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(Yesterday, 02:38 PM)turingmachine75 Wrote:
(Yesterday, 10:59 AM)mr. stockslivevan Wrote: For example: On the very same night at 8pm you'd have DS9 featuring a heavy emotional character story, and then next at 9pm on VOYAGER you'd have the Captain Janeway and her cocky ship pilot turn into giant salamanders and make little baby salamanders. I'm literally not kidding.

It's worse, weren't those salamanders supposed to be what humans will eventually evolve into?

Pretty much!







The "science" not only breaks the universe but the very premise of the show. If Doc can easily reverse the "evolution" effects, why don't they just immediately use the transwarp to go straight home and then just have the Doc "cure" them?
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(Yesterday, 11:14 AM)freeman Wrote: I just watched Trials and Tribblelations on Deep Space Nine.

I enjoyed it very much.

It really is a great episode. To be able to blend them into the existing episode pretty much seamlessly was great for back them. 

They also nailed the lighthearted tone pretty good.

Since it came before TOS remastered, I am a bit disappointed they didn’t leave the DS9 crew in. Like when Kirk is yelling at them about the fight.
"Every romantic comedy should just be called "Tryin' to Fuck" - Patton Oswalt
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I think it's better that they left the episode as it was in the remaster. Also it would have been costly to try to find the specific DS9 footage and do the splicing all over again. The cool thing about the blu-ray set is that they included the DS9 episode on the same disc so you could watch that right after the TOS episode.
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