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ANT-MAN AND THE WASP Post-Release Discussion
#36
The pre-title revisits the flashback from the first movie, when Janet went sub-atomic to disable the nuke.

Before that, it opens with de-aged Pfeiffer and Dougas telling a young Hope that they're going out of town for a business trip.
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#37
Brilli-ant, thanks!
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#38
It was alright. Doesn't really try and do anything interesting, doesn't fail at all. Truth serum was great. I wish the crew was in the movie more. Douglas and Pfeiffer were fine, personally it felt like both weren't really trying but your mileage may vary.

The giant ants were awesome and the film used the powers pretty well I think, especially the third act. Goggins was completely wasted, but Fishburne was solid, kind of hope he gets a de-age cameo as Goliath at some point.

Makes me want Marvel to make an anthology film cause it wasn't bad at all, it just didn't feel like the story needed 2 hours to tell. Maybe would give a chance to explore the Hawkeye level characters some more?
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#39
(07-06-2018, 05:37 PM)The Dark Shape Wrote:
(07-06-2018, 05:03 PM)Dent6084 Wrote: He'll end up defeating Thanos with close-up magic.

Or else the giant ant will impress Thanos with its drum skills and Thanos will put everything back the way it used to be.

You joke, but I have a real feeling it's going to be Ant-Man and/or Hawkeye who ends up finishing Thanos off.  It's gonna be one of the "smaller humans" you wouldn't expect to have that big of an impact.

[Image: yZi0G5V.jpg]
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#40
Really loved this; sure, its pure fluff, but its a perfect fun and feel good movie after Infinity War.
The chemistry of the whole cast (the antenna scene), the fact that a movie about superhero scientists end up with them fixing things and helping the villain (also saving a couple interesting characters for the MCU)* is a really great thing to see onscreen, and the action and comedy sequences all click.
I mean, this movie has science saving the day and looking awesome onscreen, bad guys being helped instead of defeated/killed, a diverse cast, a positive divorced family portrayal and Evangeline Lilly being the MVP of the film.
Its affirmative and positive as hell, and I love it for it. After it finished, a kid in the theater said he wanted to look up Tardigrades on his dad's phone because he thoght they looked awesome.
Loved it...and damn if that first bonus scene was put there to open again the IW wounds...but the following bonus scene helped it heal again.

*Ill wat the hell out of a Thunderbolts movie with Zemo, Ghost and other MCU villains as protagonists.

(07-06-2018, 10:40 PM)shan Wrote:
(07-06-2018, 05:37 PM)The Dark Shape Wrote:
(07-06-2018, 05:03 PM)Dent6084 Wrote: He'll end up defeating Thanos with close-up magic.

Or else the giant ant will impress Thanos with its drum skills and Thanos will put everything back the way it used to be.

You joke, but I have a real feeling it's going to be Ant-Man and/or Hawkeye who ends up finishing Thanos off.  It's gonna be one of the "smaller humans" you wouldn't expect to have that big of an impact.

[Image: yZi0G5V.jpg]

Funny thing is, Grant Morrison actually did something like this in JLA; Green Arrow fires an arrow with the Atom on it at Darkseid, and Atom goes through Darkseid's eyes inside his head and essentially fries his brain and kills him...because if Darkseid can see, it means light/photons can actually go through the energy field that makes him invulnerable.
Science!
"Dictatorships foster oppression, dictatorships foster servitude, dictatorships foster cruelty; more abominable is the fact that they foster idiocy."

Xbox Live Gamer Tag: Strider Ryoken / PSN: Kenryo81 /Steam: Ryoken81
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#41
Soo, something has been bugging me from the second I saw the film in the theatre yesterday, but I forgot to ask before: has Luis been injected with Pym particles? Because Pym specifically tells Bill Foster to leave the lab before he shrinks it, but Hope shrinks the car with Luis in it and he shrinks as well. Shouldn't that have been a gore-rrific moment? Or maybe I missed something?
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#42
Pretty good review mirroring my feelings.
I always get the feeling [Boone Daniels] is one of those guys who talks for four hours about how much he respects women, and then it comes out that he sends pictures of his dick to sixth-graders.
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#43
(07-06-2018, 11:38 PM)ryoken Wrote: Funny thing is, Grant Morrison actually did something like this in JLA; Green Arrow fires an arrow with the Atom on it at Darkseid, and Atom goes through Darkseid's eyes inside his head and essentially fries his brain and kills him...because if Darkseid can see, it means light/photons can actually go through the energy field that makes him invulnerable.
Science!

The amount of time I spent looking for the comic where Hawkeye fired an arrow with Ant-Man on it to kill Thanos the way you described before I realised!

On a side-note, even though it may well never happen, a series of films based on Grant Morrison's Zenith Phase 1-4 would be excellent (if done well, of course).
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#44
(07-07-2018, 12:25 AM)andrevellozo Wrote: Soo, something has been bugging me from the second I saw the film in the theatre yesterday, but I forgot to ask before: has Luis been injected with Pym particles? Because Pym specifically tells Bill Foster to leave the lab before he shrinks it, but Hope shrinks the car with Luis in it and he shrinks as well. Shouldn't that have been a gore-rrific moment? Or maybe I missed something?

He tells him to leave it because he is about to turn on the quantum tunnel, so he wanted him out of there so he could safely do the trip into the quantum realm while Hope and Scott kept the shrinked lab safe ; I believe the way pym particles work is that they shrink everything in their area of effect; as in the body of the wearer of the Ant Man or Wasp suit, or anyone or anything inside Pym's cars or lab.
"Dictatorships foster oppression, dictatorships foster servitude, dictatorships foster cruelty; more abominable is the fact that they foster idiocy."

Xbox Live Gamer Tag: Strider Ryoken / PSN: Kenryo81 /Steam: Ryoken81
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#45
I noticed they've confirmed that Shield (publicly at least) is gone.
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#46
(07-07-2018, 01:33 AM)thecooleravian Wrote: Pretty good review mirroring my feelings.

That's a good review!

If there's anything the movie kinda ends up being about through its blatant plot machinations... it's that people making rushed decision based on trauma and pain lead to more pain.  I don't think it's about that idea particularly well or that it's fully intentional... but it's there enough in the Ava character that I appreciated it.
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#47
This was nice. Not something I’m likely to have strong feelings about at any point going forward, but nothing particularly wrong here. The comedy worked very well, especially Michael Pena.

One of my favorite parts was Laurence Fishbourne repeatedly being surrounded and inconvenienced by cgi ants, while he awkwardly teeters with hands in the air. And it just keeps happening!
Brigadier Cousins on PSN
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#48
[video=youtube]http://[/video]

No wonder people liked this, it was directed by Dean Pelton!
I always get the feeling [Boone Daniels] is one of those guys who talks for four hours about how much he respects women, and then it comes out that he sends pictures of his dick to sixth-graders.
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#49
Peyton DEAAAANNNN!!!
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#50
Seeing this in a few minutes. Afterward, hopefully, I'll be able to find some online article or video essay or something that will explain the Easter eggs and/or post-credits scenes to me.
Our sanitariums are full of men who think they're Napoleon... Or God.
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#51
So, at the very tail end of the credits it says, "Ant-Man and the Wasp will return".

I mean, what the fuck? I had just watched in the first post-credits scene that Hope is wiped out by Thanos, along with Pym and Janet-- which should mean that Scott will be trapped in the quantum realm forever. So none of them should return! If they plan on reversing those circumstances, they should at least spoiler-tag that shit, right?

It's just like how the ending of Infinity War is total crap because I read the trades and there's no way Spider-Man and the Panther can be dead, not while Chadwick Boseman and Tom Holland haven't fulfilled their multi-film contracts with Marvel. Gah! It sucks all the drama out of it if I have a pretty good idea where things are going just because I've watched movies before. Where are the stakes?!

....

Anyway, that first post-credits scene was a good reminder of how freaky and disconcerting the idea of that whole thing is-- even if you know the effect isn't permanent. Good cliffhanger.

The rest of the movie was an Ant-Man movie. It was okay. Had some laughs-- one or two where it felt like I was the only one laughing in a fairly packed theater. There are a lot of good super-sizing/shrinking gags that I still think pale in comparison to the superhero action I saw in The Incredibles 2 earlier this week.

Rudd's good, as always. I remain indifferent to Evangeline Lilly. Douglas is good. Goggins is wasted. Ghost (whoever it was played her) kinda bored me when I thought she should be really cool. Fishburne picked up a paycheck, which is nice for him.

Michelle Pfeiffer as Janet Van Dyne seems like dream casting in a world where these movies took a totally different direction. But I've pretty much known since the first one I wasn't going to get a Janet like she is in the comics, who is probably my favorite Marvel superheroine after the She-Hulk. Ah, well. 

Best and most memorable part was once again Luis and his digressing stories. I like how they planted the seed for that Morrissey gag a few minutes before. Biggest laugh for me, beside two-foot tall Scott flailing around in a kid's hoodie.
Our sanitariums are full of men who think they're Napoleon... Or God.
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#52
It wasn't "Ant-Man and the Wasp will return", it was "Ant-Man and the Wasp will return ... ?"
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#53
there was a question mark at the end of the WILL RETURN at the end hahah

edit: DAMMIT SHAN
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#54
You've got to remember, the majority of the audience for these things aren't like us. They don't have the faintest idea about contracts and behind the scenes production stuff nor the upcoming schedule, they just watch the films as they come out. Which is why the end of Infinity War struck home so hard with so much of the audience as almost everyone post the Avengers I crowd got wasted. Extreme end of the spectrum case with this film (possibly), I read a comment on I think Reddit where one viewer found out after the film that his sister thought during the entire film that Ghost was the Wasp.
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#55
what was fun about the credit scene was that the 'dark ending' ended up getting a huge laugh and applause from my audience when they realized what happened.
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#56
Yes... I had my tongue in cheek there for my first few paragraphs. I saw too many "takes" on Infinity War that didn't find the ending effective because of reasons not having to do with the movie as it played. 

To be fair, I did miss the question mark, which *is* a nice touch-- haha. In my defense, I think I'm going goddamn blind in my old age. I was even wearing my glasses.

People didn't laugh at that post-credits bit in my screening. Sounded more spooked. Which is why I was like, see, that ending works.
Our sanitariums are full of men who think they're Napoleon... Or God.
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#57
I figured you had your tongue in cheek from your post

But I wasn't sure if you missed the question mark

It popped in a couple of seconds after the text appeared
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#58
Kinda pissed I missed it now, tbh. It's like a "Flash Gordon" ending text that's actually gonna pay off.
Our sanitariums are full of men who think they're Napoleon... Or God.
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#59
THE POWAH OF PUNCTUATION!!!
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#60
(07-08-2018, 02:52 AM)slim Wrote: Yes... I had my tongue in cheek there for my first few paragraphs. I saw too many "takes" on Infinity War that didn't find the ending effective because of reasons not having to do with the movie as it played. 

To be fair, I did miss the question mark, which *is* a nice touch-- haha. In my defense, I think I'm going goddamn blind in my old age. I was even wearing my glasses.

People didn't laugh at that post-credits bit in my screening. Sounded more spooked. Which is why I was like, see, that ending works.

To be fair, I missed the question mark too, I only knew about it from reading about it later.

My screening had silence for a moment after the Snap and then someone yelled out "Oh my Goddddddddddd!!!!"

It was so awesome.
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#61
I liked it. It was a total change of pace from Black Panther and Infinity War which is good and just further shows how versatile Marvel is. But it almost felt like there was too much going on. You had the rescue, then you had Ghost, then Goggins, then the FBI stuff, then Luis.

As good as the fight and chase scenes were, the truth serum interrogation was my favorite part of the movie. But every time Kurt (I think that’s his name) was saying babayaga, I couldn’t help but think of John Wick. How can you not.

They sure seemed to be pressing Scott’s daughter as his partner.

As for the Snap...I dunno. Having all 3 “die” seems a bit much.
"Every romantic comedy should just be called "Tryin' to Fuck" - Patton Oswalt
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#62
(07-08-2018, 03:01 AM)slim Wrote: Kinda pissed I missed it now, tbh. It's like a "Flash Gordon" ending text that's actually gonna pay off.

BUCKAROO BANZAI AGAINST THE WORLD CRIME LEAGUE
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#63
(07-08-2018, 04:10 AM)shan Wrote:
(07-08-2018, 03:01 AM)slim Wrote: Kinda pissed I missed it now, tbh. It's like a "Flash Gordon" ending text that's actually gonna pay off.

BUCKAROO BANZAI AGAINST THE WORLD CRIME LEAGUE

Just . . . don't.  It's still too soon.
Not a hard man to track. Leaves dead men wherever he goes.
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#64
(07-08-2018, 03:46 AM)Paul755 Wrote: As for the Snap...I dunno. Having all 3 “die” seems a bit much.

I'm of about three minds on the Snap.

1.  It works as-is, giving a good explanation why those characters don't have any part in IW Part 2, helping keep the character load down so maybe you can focus more on who you DO have, and quite frankly, because it seemed to provide a genuine shock even to folks that came in expecting at least one or two of them (most likely Hope, given her absence from IW Part 2) to get dusted.  There were audible gasps in the theater, even from my wife, who fully expected it to play out somehow but was shocked they took all three of them.

2.  It would have been interesting to have only Janet (and Scott) survive, both because she hasn't fully established a relationship with Scott and because having her pal around with the Avengers in IW part 2 could have been a nice nod to her status as an "original Avenger" in the comics.  But really exploring JAnet's character more seems like something for an Ant-Man and Wasp focused sequel.

3.  Keeping Hope around so we have an active Wasp on the Avengers would have worked pretty nicely too.  Though I suppose that's open for phase 4.
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#65
This was a lot of fun. Pretty much what I wanted the movie to be, funny, brisk, stand-alone, and not about saving the world.

I wish Ghost had a little less convoluted backstory.  I don't understand why they wouldn't just make her Fishburne's daughter.  Then he'd be a little more of a parallel to Hank (both having daughter issues because their wives died in quantum realm related accidents).  I'd convinced myself that the twist with Ghost was going to be that she was Scott's daughter who'd come back through Quantum Realm shenanigans to stop him from doing something that ruined his/her life.  That might've been fun.

Few things about the Quantum Realm:
  • Pfeiffer's makeup was pretty distracting.  I guess the Quantum Realm has an Ulta Beauty.  
  • Also, Where did Janet get the beige top in the Quantum Realm?
  • Basically, I wish we'd gotten a few scenes of her surviving the Quantum Realm.
  • Missed opportunity for a deep-cut Quantum Leap reference when Janet took over Scott's body.
  • I was also all setup for Hank to sacrifice himself to save Janet.  Glad they didn't go there and hope these guys get to pop up elsewhere in the MCU.

The post-credits thing was a little too tacked on.  Just having it set in the Pym house or lab would've felt a little less jarring from where the movie ended. 

Good time at the movies.
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#66
(07-08-2018, 11:42 AM)hypnotoad Wrote: I wish Ghost had a little less convoluted backstory.  I don't understand why they wouldn't just make her Fishburne's daughter.  Then he'd be a little more of a parallel to Hank (both having daughter issues because their wives died in quantum realm related accidents). 

I wondered the same thing

during the flashbacks about Ava's father, I actually thought, "gee... de-aged Fishburne sure looks pale..."
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#67
Agreed. Thought the same thing.

Didn't help that someone in the audience yelled, "Oh shit she's his daughter!" as Fishburne walked out of the shadows.
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#68
The thing I was missing most was an emotional connection to Ghost pre-villain turn. Her dad worked with Hank: having her and Hope be friends as children pre-accident would have worked. They already have the ‘I’m in pain’ angle to explain why she’s driven to such extremes, so being healed gives them an out to reform her. Almost like a variation of Doc Ock in Spider-Man 2 except she survives.

I also hope Burch makes it back in the future as well, if only to give Goggins more to do. Maybe as part of the Thunderbolts? Ross recruits him to supply tech for the team, Zemo as field leader, and Ghost as muscle. Maybe throw Vulture in there if Keaton is game.

Janet’s talk about ‘adaptation/evolution’ tied into the Quantum Realm makes me wonder if they might use the Quantum Realm to explain the emergence of Mutants or the Eternals.

A small touch I really liked was Bobby Cannavale suddenly being so enthusiastic in supporting Scott.
Superlaser speaks for me from now on.

-Bart
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#69
She has basically the same backstory as Ivan Vanko, just with added powers.
Brigadier Cousins on PSN
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#70
Best Stan Lee Cameo yet.
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