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ANT-MAN AND THE WASP Post-Release Discussion
#71
(07-08-2018, 02:31 AM)Nooj Wrote: there was a question mark at the end of the WILL RETURN at the end hahah

edit: DAMMIT SHAN

You snooze, you Nooj!
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#72
(07-08-2018, 09:16 PM)arjen rudd Wrote: She has basically the same backstory as Ivan Vanko, just with added powers.

And no boird.
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#73
Right down to the "I want revenge because your father screwed over my father!" motivation.

With the same one-line "Nah, that father was a dick, don't worry about it" dismissal a scene or two later!
I'm still avian.
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#74
I just watched The Screen Junkies spoiler review for this and I missed that there are time vortexes in the quantum realm. That could be a set up to how Scott gets out and how everyone is brought back to life for Avengers 4.
I've got good news and I've got bad news. The bad news is that I have lost my way. The good news is that I'm way ahead of schedule.
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#75
And with the Quantum Realm said to be a part of Captain Marvel time shenanigans will probably factor into it in some way as well. Probably Scott showing up in the post credits.
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#76
Ghost's dad was Elihas Starr, the real name of Marvel villain Egghead (and played by former Fringe Observer Michael Cerveris).

This was an effortlessly charming piece of breezy fluff that we needed after the sturm und drang of Infinity War. Not all of these have to be epic, and this was just a fun little movie.

And yeah, Scott still being in the quantum realm when the Snap went down is going to be a huge plot point in Avengers 4. They also mention he's collecting some sort of healing substance, so I wouldn't be surprised if that plays a role too.

I think my favorite moment was Ghost showing up and triggering Kurt's fear of Baba Yaga.
My karmic debt must be huge.

----------

My blog: An Embarrassment of Rich's
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#77
So anyone else find it funny that Tim Heidecker has now been in two Marvel movies where do to science related activities someone is stranded somewhere, they're saved from that place, and said person ends up gaining powers from that place?
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#78
I just got out of this tonight, and I don't know what the consensus in here is... but I really liked it.

It's an ultra-lightweight -- but consistently delightful -- romp. The stakes of the story are relatively (and refreshingly) low-key, making this a needed palate cleanser after the heavier, more apocalyptic AVENGERS: INFINITY WAR. This movie is truly, genuinely funny, with dialogue and some brilliant sight gags combining in a really appealing, winning way (the sequence in the elementary school is literally the funniest thing I’ve seen this year).

Paul Rudd continues to be an affable and surprisingly earnest leading man, and Evangeline Lilly has a convincing physicality that pairs nicely with Rudd in the action scenes. Walton Goggins gets to savor some decent lines (he doesn't feel totally wasted like in TOMB RAIDER!), Michael Pena again effortlessly steals whole sequences, Laurence Fishburne brings some gravitas, Hannah John-Kamen provides some unexpected nuance (the brief moment at the end when she realizes she's no longer in pain is actually kind of beautiful), Michelle Pfeiffer's very effective in her limited screentime, and Michael Douglas delivers a comics-accurate depiction of Hank Pym’s best and worst qualities.

And a great cliffhanger! Clearly AVENGERS 4 needs Scott exactly where he is at the end of this, and I can't wait to see how he gets out of the spot he's in.

There’s not a whole lot of substance here (it is a total lark), but sometimes all a movie needs to be is just a good time, and I found it to absolutely be a ton of quality fun, which has been in relatively short supply this summer so far.
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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#79
I ended up enjoying this way more than I thought I would. The first movie was pretty disappointed, as while I was watching it I just couldn't help but notice this or that was a scene designed for Edgar Wright to do this or that thing, (and they weren't doing it) or that fight scene that's a worse shot and edited version of Wrights test footage that was shown and leaked from a comic-con. But this movie, that was never a problem. It doesn't have as many interesting and cool thought out set pieces as the first movie, but I ended up enjoying it way more.

This turned out to be an extremely fun and delightful movie. Maybe it will change over time, but right now, first viewing, this is probably the Marvel movie where all the comedy stuff works best. Peyton Reed seems to have stepped things up as a director, and this has some of the coolest looking visuals in a Marvel movie.
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#80
In case Kevin Feige is looking for ideas, I would love to see a One Shot of Luis recapping the events of Avengers 3 and 4. Thanos lip synching Pena would be comedy gold.
I've got good news and I've got bad news. The bad news is that I have lost my way. The good news is that I'm way ahead of schedule.
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#81
That's a good short for a Pixar flick.
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#82
I'm admittedly struggling to come up with what the message or theme of this movie was, besides almost incidental things like 'good triumphs over evil' (like, was there evil in this movie?) or 'true love conquers all'.
I'm still avian.
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#83
(07-12-2018, 03:48 PM)thecooleravian Wrote: I'm admittedly struggling to come up with what the message or theme of this movie was, besides almost incidental things like 'good triumphs over evil' (like, was there evil in this movie?) or 'true love conquers all'.

For the record, I don't think that a movie of this ilk really needs a capital-T "THEME".  I have a hard time expressing exactly what Big Idea it is that Ghostbusters, or Raiders Of The Lost Ark, or Die Hard, or Predator are expressing, that isn't almost incidental stuff about determination, grit, blue collar bros being awesome, nazis/aliens being bad or whatever. 

But just because a theme is trite doesn't mean a movie isn't actually about anything.  With superhero movies it generally helps to look at what the villains are doing to decide what it is about.  In this movie's case, the thematic throughline is about fathers and daughters.  Hank feels his work robbed his daughter of her mother, Scott worries his superhero work will also ruin Cassie, Fishburne (as the antagonist the movie steadfastly refuses to demonize) is determined to use his work to heal the surrogate father who was crippled by her biological father's.  

I don't know what I'd say the actual lesson is.  Dads, don't let your daughters suffer for your ambition?
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#84
If anything it’s more like “you can have a healthy relationship with your daughter even if you mess up sometimes.”
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#85
(07-12-2018, 03:48 PM)thecooleravian Wrote: I'm admittedly struggling to come up with what the message or theme of this movie was, besides almost incidental things like 'good triumphs over evil' (like, was there evil in this movie?) or 'true love conquers all'.

but Marvel movies in general are pretty thematically lacking.
the empire never ended
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#86
the theme is always "please like us a lot!"
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#87
(07-12-2018, 04:26 PM)schwartz Wrote:
(07-12-2018, 03:48 PM)thecooleravian Wrote: I'm admittedly struggling to come up with what the message or theme of this movie was, besides almost incidental things like 'good triumphs over evil' (like, was there evil in this movie?) or 'true love conquers all'.

For the record, I don't think that a movie of this ilk really needs a capital-T "THEME".  I have a hard time expressing exactly what Big Idea it is that Ghostbusters, or Raiders Of The Lost Ark, or Die Hard, or Predator are expressing, that isn't almost incidental stuff about determination, grit, blue collar bros being awesome, nazis/aliens being bad or whatever. 

But just because a theme is trite doesn't mean a movie isn't actually about anything.  With superhero movies it generally helps to look at what the villains are doing to decide what it is about.  In this movie's case, the thematic throughline is about fathers and daughters.  Hank feels his work robbed his daughter of her mother, Scott worries his superhero work will also ruin Cassie, Fishburne (as the antagonist the movie steadfastly refuses to demonize) is determined to use his work to heal the surrogate father who was crippled by her biological father's.  

I don't know what I'd say the actual lesson is.  Dads, don't let your daughters suffer for your ambition?

Die Hard is about John McClane valuing his wife, Raiders of the Lost Ark is about Indy having faith, Ghostbusters is about how the EPA is evil and suppressing hard-working Americans, et cetera et cetera.

I was just thinking there would be something there about fatherhood or partnership. Like Scott would admit the reason he didn't bring Hope to Germany is that he was afraid she'd get hurt, and Hank has a talk with him about how he trusted Janet to take care of herself and that's what made them such a good team, and then a big moment at the end where Scott trusts Hope to do something despite worrying that she'll die. You know, that sort of thing.
I'm still avian.
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#88
I don't think Ghostbusters is ever actually about that as a whole, but your other two answers are solid!
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#89
I always thought Ghostbusters was about the spirit of modern American Entrepreneurship?
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#90
It kind of is!

The pieces of a thematic thrust is very clear in Antman and Wasp DNA. It's fathers and daughters thing, never fully articulated or engaged with, but it seems clear it was a significant part of the writing process. It fell along the wayside, while they've got characters, dialogue, set pieces, etc all getting sharpened (and most of that stuff is pretty sharp in this), and it's one of the reasons no one will ever confuse this with top tier Marvel or Superhero, but naturally, that hardly matters.

I do think Marvel has, in general, been pretty good at layering thematic ideas into these, at least lately. Some much more than other. Off the top of my head, Guardians 2, Black Panther, Doctor Strange and Civil War have all done pretty good jobs of articulating ideas. Others, like Thor Ragnarok, generally just give it a pass, which is usually to the detriment.
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#91
Ghostbusters is about how one man over came his handicap of not having a dick to land his dream job at the EPA.
I've got good news and I've got bad news. The bad news is that I have lost my way. The good news is that I'm way ahead of schedule.
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#92
Ghostbusters is a treatise on the dangers of interspecies harmony vis a vis cats and dogs.
Superlaser speaks for me from now on.

-Bart
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#93
It's true.

Ert . . . the dream job at EPA thing.
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#94
Great fun. The truth serum bit was funny as fuck.

Great pallette cleanser after IW.

Whole audience audibly gasped at the post crrdits.
Whāia te iti kahurangi ki te tūohu koe me he maunga teitei
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#95
That was a fun one. I agree it's not on the level of the really top flight Marvel movies but I enjoyed it a lot.

And young Douglas and Pfeiffer freaked me the fuck out. On a lovecraftian level.
"The universe is probably littered with the one-planet graves of cultures which made the sensible economic decision that there's no good reason to go into space--each discovered, studied, and remembered by the ones who made the irrational decision."
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#96
(07-15-2018, 02:01 AM)stelios Wrote: young Douglas and Pfeiffer freaked me the fuck out. On a lovecraftian level.
That bad or that good?
“I call upon you to stop this musical now,” she said to the board. “You tear a community apart if you don’t.” -Prachi Ruina                                                            
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#97
Started off kind of sloppy and hit the "corny" button a couple times too often but mostly trucked along being plenty likeable. You can't really go wrong with Paul Rudd in that regard.

Also loved the way the re-sizing was worked into the action. That's a real strong point of difference Ant Man and Wasp have compared to the various riffs on punching pretty much every other superhero fight dynamic is reduced to.
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#98
(07-15-2018, 02:19 AM)waaaaaaaalt Wrote:
(07-15-2018, 02:01 AM)stelios Wrote: young Douglas and Pfeiffer freaked me the fuck out. On a lovecraftian level.
That bad or that good?

Too good, if you know what I'm saying.
"The universe is probably littered with the one-planet graves of cultures which made the sensible economic decision that there's no good reason to go into space--each discovered, studied, and remembered by the ones who made the irrational decision."
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#99
The de-aging thing is getting spooky at this point. In the past I could usually see the seams around the mouth when speaking, but Pfeiffer's first close up in the film looked completely convincing to me.
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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(07-15-2018, 07:46 AM)stelios Wrote:
(07-15-2018, 02:19 AM)waaaaaaaalt Wrote:
(07-15-2018, 02:01 AM)stelios Wrote: young Douglas and Pfeiffer freaked me the fuck out. On a lovecraftian level.
That bad or that good?

Too good, if you know what I'm saying.

I was hoping.
“I call upon you to stop this musical now,” she said to the board. “You tear a community apart if you don’t.” -Prachi Ruina                                                            
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Not enough gets said about how fun the opening with his daughter and the treasure hunt/ant slide is.
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I love how Bobby Cannavale has become Scott's biggest booster in this movie. He doesn't need to be in there at all.
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he reminded me of group-hugging Genie from Aladdin
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(07-15-2018, 11:59 AM)schwartz Wrote: I love how Bobby Cannavale has become Scott's biggest booster in this movie. He doesn't need to be in there at all.

I think it's a fun little piece of the puzzle. It's nice that they avoid the cliched tension that we might usually see when an ex gets remarried.
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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(07-15-2018, 11:50 AM)shaunh Wrote: Not enough gets said about how fun the opening with his daughter and the treasure hunt/ant slide is.

That was one of my favourite parts of the whole film and I was meaning to get back and write about that. It reminded me of our primary school open day or whatever we called it where they used to build mazes out of cardboard. I remember 1982 was a really good year because once you entered, until you wanted to exit again, you could go around and around again for as long as you want. I still remember being disappointed with 1983 as you couldn't do that and it was a much more boring one that just funnelled you to the exit.

Also, has anyone mentioned yet how good Randall Park was in this with unexpected segues ("The card trick ... how did you do it?"/'When will I see you again?" ... "When you break the law again ... and I'm there to catch you." and conversations that trailed off into awkward silences "Unless you want to get dinner?" ... "Why would I want to do that?").

Like Bobby Cannavale and Judy Greer, there may have been small parts but they weren't inessential nor not entertaining ones. "It is a truth serum."/"My restaurant has committed many health code violations ... Some of them would shock you."
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