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Results/Reactions to the Pennsylvania Grand Jury
#1
I wish I had posted this sooner but haven't been around too much: a Pennsylvania grand jury found credible evidence of sexual abuse against 301 priests with more than 1,000 children identified.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/predator-pr...est-abuse/

Quote:More than 1,000 children — and possibly many more — were molested by hundreds of Roman Catholic priests in six Pennsylvania dioceses, while senior church officials took steps to cover it up, according to a landmark grand jury report released Tuesday.

The grand jury said it believes the "real number" of abused children might be "in the thousands" since some records were lost and victims were afraid to come forward. The report said more than 300 clergy committed the abuse over a period of decades.

Pennsylvania Attorney General Josh Shapiro said the two-year probe found a systematic cover-up by senior church officials in Pennsylvania and at the Vatican.

"The cover-up was sophisticated. And all the while, shockingly, church leadership kept records of the abuse and the cover-up. These documents, from the dioceses' own 'Secret Archives,' formed the backbone of this investigation," he said at a news conference in Harrisburg.

Significantly, the report faulted Cardinal Donald Wuerl, the former longtime bishop of Pittsburgh who now leads the Washington archdiocese, for what it said was his part in the concealment of clergy sexual abuse. Wuerl defended himself, releasing a statement Tuesday that said he had "acted with diligence, with concern for the victims and to prevent future acts of abuse."

Bill Donohue had the absolute worst response to all of this:

http://www.joemygod.com/2018/08/16/catho...enetrated/

Quote:Shapiro said that “Church officials routinely and purposely described the abuse as horseplay and wrestling and inappropriate contact. It was none of those things.” He said it was “rape.”

Similarly, the New York Times quoted from the report saying that Church officials used such terms as “horseplay” and “inappropriate contact” as part of their “playbook for concealing the truth.”

Fact: This is an obscene lie. Most of the alleged victims were not raped: they were groped or otherwise abused, but not penetrated, which is what the word “rape” means. This is not a defense — it is meant to set the record straight and debunk the worst case scenarios attributed to the offenders.

Furthermore, Church officials were not following a “playbook” for using terms such as “inappropriate contact” — they were following the lexicon established by the John Jay professors.
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#2
You can expect Bill Donahue to take the worst possible position on literally everything.
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#3
"Bad people/mistakes on both sides..."
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#4
I get that it's tired to speculate about what kinds of skeletons this religious right leader or that one might have in their closets, but holy shit does Bill Donahue ever like to demagogue against LGBT people and defend actual child molesters.
"Looking at the Trump administration, I'm starting to think I was too hard on the characters in Prometheus."  --  MrBananaGrabber
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#5
Three HUNDRED just makes my head spin. That's an insane amount. That's not just a few bad apples. That seems like they deliberately seek out perverts to put into these positions..
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#6
Here's Pope Francis' response:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/20/europe/po...index.html

Quote:Pope Francis has acknowledged "with shame and repentance" the Catholic Church's failure to act over sexual abuse by clerics against minors going back decades, writing "we showed no care for the little ones; we abandoned them."

In an unusually blunt letter released by the Vatican on Monday, the Pope wrote, "I acknowledge once more the suffering endured by many minors due to sexual abuse, the abuse of power and the abuse of conscience perpetrated by a significant number of clerics and consecrated persons. 

"Looking back to the past, no effort to beg pardon and to seek to repair the harm done will ever be sufficient. Looking ahead to the future, no effort must be spared to create a culture able to prevent such situations from happening, but also to prevent the possibility of their being covered up and perpetuated."

His letter comes in the wake of a Pennsylvania grand jury report that detailed decades of sexual abuses by priests and cover-ups by bishops.
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#7
(08-20-2018, 12:39 PM)fraid uh noman Wrote: Three HUNDRED just makes my head spin. That's an insane amount. That's not just a few bad apples. That seems like they deliberately seek out perverts to put into these positions..

I've liked the theory that the authority that priests wield over their congregations is just a magnet for abusers.  It's probably comparable to violent racism and cops.  Taking the comparison between priests and cops further, though, I do wonder how much screening and politicking is done to select priests for promotion who can be trusted not to rat their peers and superiors out.  I honestly don't know enough about how their career track works.  

Then you've got the cyclical nature of sexual abuse, especially abuse of children, and have to wonder where and when the grooming of some of these priests really began.
"Looking at the Trump administration, I'm starting to think I was too hard on the characters in Prometheus."  --  MrBananaGrabber
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#8
(08-20-2018, 12:57 PM)Reasor Wrote:
(08-20-2018, 12:39 PM)fraid uh noman Wrote: Three HUNDRED just makes my head spin. That's an insane amount. That's not just a few bad apples. That seems like they deliberately seek out perverts to put into these positions..

I've liked the theory that the authority that priests wield over their congregations is just a magnet for abusers.  It's probably comparable to violent racism and cops.  Taking the comparison between priests and cops further, though, I do wonder how much screening and politicking is done to select priests for promotion who can be trusted not to rat their peers and superiors out.  I honestly don't know enough about how their career track works.  

Then you've got the cyclical nature of sexual abuse, especially abuse of children, and have to wonder where and when the grooming of some of these priests really began.

There's all that, and the fact that priests are mandated to be celibate, which would make it an attractive position for people whose sexual proclivities are considered deviant in whatever way.  That has always included children, but in decades past, particularly within heavily religious Christian communities, homosexuality in general wasn't treated all that much differently than pedophilia.  But there was one position that was afforded authority and respect among the community, and where no one was allowed to ask why you didn't seem interested in pursuing "normal", socially-approved heterosexual relationships.  

I am really, really not saying that homosexuality and child abuse are intrinsically related.  Just that the priesthood's rules on celibacy have always made it an attractive option for those who felt that they couldn't be open with their sexuality, which applies to the persecuted and predators alike.
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#9
This has been all over my feed this week. I'm a very, very, very lapsed Catholic and I have friends who still practice. I still haven't been able to really process that Grand Jury report.

But I guess you could say that they knew, and they let it happen. To kids.
home taping is killing music
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#10
I'm lapsed Catholic as well. The entire religion can transubstantiate the hell out of here IMO.
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#11
Oof:

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/chr...st-josephs
home taping is killing music
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#12
(08-27-2018, 11:08 AM)boone daniels Wrote: Oof:

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/chr...st-josephs

A task force will be investigating:

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tas...task-force
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#13
The Catholic Church is no better than a David Koresh type cult leader fiddling kids in a log cabin. It’s just incredibly wealthy and franchised all over the globe.
“I feel a connection with you. A man connection. A mannection.”
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#14
I saw the thing about the task force. Very heartening, although, as the Buzzfeed article notes, the likelyhood that these kinds of abuses were systemic at the orphanage level is pretty overwhelming.

What's also been heartening is seeing all the states who have launched, or already launched, their own investigations into this. New York's AG subpoenaed basically every Catholic parish for their records recently.
home taping is killing music
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#15
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressive...s-a-crime/

This organization still has tax exempt status and continues to be allowed to have dealings with children.
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#16
A college friend of mine posted this about a week ago on Facebook.
http://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.scarymommy.com%2Fi-dont-know-if-i-can-be-catholic-religion-questioning-abuse%2F&h=AT3dWKRU8usRm-iExm_dEuseN4FWOIT4Wir2BR0mltF-pDT8SjnvI56PtmDwgcS8JNEUhO7TP5jWquNWGiRS9gvvMHCYal1o9k95WsX60T4iKuMndI4TQcFD7XHAKg39Lw6utuzLzRbIHRXIk3h0cqA

  A few years ago Rolling Stone published a story about the child molestation in the Philadelphia diocese. One of the excuses the church used was that it wasn't the priests fault because they where seduced. I was raised Catholic and I would be fine with being excommunicated ever since I read that story.
I've got good news and I've got bad news. The bad news is that I have lost my way. The good news is that I'm way ahead of schedule.
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