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Wheel of Time: An Amazon TV Series
#36
I reiterate...where are the adaptations for actually/good/ fantasy series? Elric? The Black Company? Vlad Taltos?

Instead we get Shannara, WoT and a couple of low-rent GRRM series. What’s next D’rizzit?
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#37
I'd love to see Tad Williams' Memory, Sorrow and Thorn adapted.
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#38
The director for the first  two episodes has been announced:

https://deadline.com/2019/02/the-wheel-o...202558701/


Quote:Briesewitz has directed on numerous television series including The Deuce, This Is Us, Jessica Jones, Orange Is The New Black, Jane the Virgin, Fear the Walking Dead and the upcoming third season of Stranger Things, among others. She started off as a cinematographer, earning an Emmy nomination for Hung. She’s repped by UTA.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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#39
Rosamund Pike is Moiraine

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/06/18/...es-report/
“That which doesn't kill you wasn't done right.”—Khaya Dlanga
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#40
Huh. That's an interesting choice. I kind of see her as being perfect for Elaida, or maybe Siuan Sanche ... she has that certain "uptight regal-ness" about her ... but I'm sure she'll be a fine Moiraine, as well.

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#41
Moiraine was pretty much cool as a cucumber most of the time, too. Pike's a solid choice.

But here's where fans need to let go. Moiraine is described as being quite short and dark haired, two things Pike is decidedly not. The latter can be fixed, of course.

Lessons from GoT and the MCU should apply, though: unless that physical feature is crucial to the story (such as Rand's reddish hair), it ultimately doesn't fucking matter.

Here's my impossible bit of fancasting: Stargate-era Kurt Russell as Lan. Just watch that scene when Russell's character first approaches the Stargate and tell me that's not Lan's icy eyes and badass face.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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#42
(06-18-2019, 06:39 PM)MichaelM Wrote: Moiraine was pretty much cool as a cucumber most of the time, too. Pike's a solid choice.

But here's where fans need to let go. Moiraine is described as being quite short and dark haired, two things Pike is decidedly not. The latter can be fixed, of course.

I'm more concerned about this potentially signalling a white-washing of the entire primary cast. Moiraine is Cairhienin and the Cairhienin are pretty consistently described as essentially asian. If they're making Moiraine white what does this mean for non-Rand Two Rivers characters, who are pretty much latinx in the books (which is why once Rand leaves the Two Rivers nobody believes he's from the Two Rivers)?

And Lan is Oded Fehr or go home.
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#43
(06-18-2019, 08:07 PM)Fafhrd Wrote: I'm more concerned about this potentially signalling a white-washing of the entire primary cast. Moiraine is Cairhienin and the Cairhienin are pretty consistently described as essentially asian.

The Seanchan are much, much more blatantly Asian. I never picked up an Asian vibe from the Cairhienin. People from Tear can be dark-skinned; Domani are "coppery skinned." 

....but now I'm remembering - you're thinking about the officers shaving the top of their heads? Mebbe. And I always thought of Shienar as a Japan analog. 

That all said, go back to the original post in this thread. The showrunner has shown an awareness of the series' challenging elements in 2019. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt that they're not going to cast white people exclusively.

ETA: From a WoT wiki:


Quote:Cairhienin are usually short in stature and of rather pale complexion, usually with dark hair. They are also, outwardly at least, a very reserved people. Their love of order and control is best illustrated by the perfect grid of their capital's streets, ignoring even hills and, where possible, waterways.

....Cairhien is thought by many to be based in part on France during the reign of Louis XIV, as well as Japan. Their bell-shaped helmets are similar to open-faced bascinets worn in the mid 14th-century. The city of Cairhien may be based on Caerleon, an important city in Arthurian lore.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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#44
I can't make my way through these books if I tried.
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#45
So...you tried? Or pre-decided you couldn't?
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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#46
I've been trying to finish Eye of the World for like a year.
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#47
I'm thinking about reading the prequel since it's only 300 pages and it sounds like that's what this first season is based on.
the empire never ended
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#48
(06-18-2019, 09:33 PM)wasp Wrote: I'm thinking about reading the prequel since it's only 300 pages and it sounds like that's what this first season is based on.

My recommendation would be to read its original version, from the LEGENDS collection. It's tighter. The novella, released on its own with extra content, is badly and unnecessarily padded. Much like books 7-14.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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#49
There's lots of good material for a tight 5-7 season arc if they plot the whole series beforehand.

Maybe they'll change that dumb ending too. Ha!
Originally Posted by ImmortanNick 

Saw Batman v Superman.
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That's my review.
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#50
(06-18-2019, 09:27 PM)freeman Wrote: I've been trying to finish Eye of the World for like a year.

Eye of the World bucks the general trend of the fantasy genre by being, at best, a middling entry despite being the first novel. 

I know this series pretty darn well.  Some would say too well ... if they needed someone to help hatchet it down to a manageable 5-7 seasons in length, they could do a lot worse than giving me a call.

*stares wistfully at law degree hanging on wall of my firm's office while thinking of Robert Frost's most famous poem*

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#51
I started reading it because I heard Sanderson closed out the series and The Way of Kings is my favorite fantasy book since I read it. But Eye of the World is either 1)extremely slow 2)Reminding me way way way too much of Tolkien 3)confusing and frustrating me with a never ending barrage of made up words and locations and bad guys names and stories and all this shit that simply won't marinate in my brain. Maybe it's just not a story for me.

Stormlight Archive adaptation? Give me a call.
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#52
(06-18-2019, 08:13 PM)MichaelM Wrote:
(06-18-2019, 08:07 PM)Fafhrd Wrote: I'm more concerned about this potentially signalling a white-washing of the entire primary cast. Moiraine is Cairhienin and the Cairhienin are pretty consistently described as essentially asian.

The Seanchan are much, much more blatantly Asian. I never picked up an Asian vibe from the Cairhienin. People from Tear can be dark-skinned; Domani are "coppery skinned." 

....but now I'm remembering - you're thinking about the officers shaving the top of their heads? Mebbe. And I always thought of Shienar as a Japan analog. 

That all said, go back to the original post in this thread. The showrunner has shown an awareness of the series' challenging elements in 2019. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt that they're not going to cast white people exclusively.

ETA: From a WoT wiki:


Quote:Cairhienin are usually short in stature and of rather pale complexion, usually with dark hair. They are also, outwardly at least, a very reserved people. Their love of order and control is best illustrated by the perfect grid of their capital's streets, ignoring even hills and, where possible, waterways.

....Cairhien is thought by many to be based in part on France during the reign of Louis XIV, as well as Japan. Their bell-shaped helmets are similar to open-faced bascinets worn in the mid 14th-century. The city of Cairhien may be based on Caerleon, an important city in Arthurian lore.

The Seanchan are culturally asian (though everything in WoT has heavy asian cultural influences. The ancient symbol of the Aes Sedai is the yin-yang, the smiling fat man angreal that Rand carries around sounds an awful lot like a buddha, etc), especially when it comes to their clothes/armor and weapons but they're extremely mixed, ethnically. The Seanchan Imperial Family is black, for instance.

And while all of the countries of main continent of the WoT are pretty ethnically mixed (red heads seem to crop up just about everywhere, not just amongst the Aiel) there are still some ethnic trends in the different countries, especially in the capital cities.

Quote:I started reading it because I heard Sanderson closed out the series and The Way of Kings is my favorite fantasy book since I read it.

I recently re-read the whole series and it is fucking jarring when Sanderson takes over. He doesn't mesh stylistically with the previous books at all, and he really screws the pooch on a couple of plotlines (it's really obvious that what he did with Mazrim Taim and Demandred was not Jordan's original plan) and just doesn't seem to have a handle on the characters or the worldbuilding.

It's also crazy that while it took ~30 years for the whole series to come out, it actually takes place over the course of a little over two.
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#53
I'm no expert but I was under the impression Sanderson was working off of extensive notes left behind? Unless it's specifically stated that Jordan had different plans for his ending? In any case it's a shame, and I can fully understand how Sanderson wouldn't mesh with Jordans style. Jordan strikes me as very similar to Tolkien, very verbose and poetic etc.

Sanderson is very meat and potatoes with his pose and plotting and stuff. Very straight forward, pretty simple(but tremendously effective) arcs and conflicts supplemented with maybe too much love of magic systems. It just happens to be a mixture that fits my preferences perfectly.
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#54
He was working off of notes, and iirc there may have even been a first draft of the last couple of chapters written by Jordan, but I believe he was also given a fair bit of leeway to put his own twist on the story.

Spoilers ahead highlight to read:
And in the case of Taimandred (as the fandom calls the theory) there's extensive foreshadowing that Mazrim Taim (a False Dragon who Rand entrusts with training male channelers) is Demandred (one of The Forsaken, who are channelers who sold their souls to the devil thousands of years ago and have kind of been the 'mini-bosses' that Rand defeats in each book) in disguise, fucking with Rand. The epilogue of Knife of Dreams practically makes it explicit. And then Sanderson takes over and in the last half of the last book reveals that Demandred has been off taking over a country that has only been mentioned a couple of times in the entire series and spends pretty much the entire Last Battle stomping around and screaming because he wants to fight Rand, who isn't even there.
End Spoiler
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#55
It's a very tough thing. I think even the most dismissive doubters of Sanderson would acknowledge that he has writing talent, but "thinking" an epic saga through someone else's voice must be creatively almost insurmountable.
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#56
I really dislike Sanderson's writing. It's efficient and things never slow down but it has no soul and just feels like literary pantomime. Fafhrd is correct: Sanderson's takeover jars like a motherfucker. Full disclosure: I haven't fully read the final three books but I have read a LOT of them. And they never really feel like WoT. Sanderson is technically skilled but his writing mostly feels perfunctory and mechanical.

About Eye of the World: the Tolkien similarities are entirely purposeful. Whether that makes you like it less or more, I don't know, but Jordan deliberately echoed much of Fellowship as a way of slowly introducing readers to his specific world (which, to his credit, does turn out to be quite different from Middle Earth, once you look past some surface level likenesses). And it may just be how reader expectations and writing has changed in the last 30 years, but I never find it slow or boring. Once the story hits the halfway mark (Book 7), then yeah, major hitting of the brakes.

I still love the book, but I'm sure some of that is nostalgia. OTOH, I tend to be an easy mark for road trip/quest stories, and that's essentially the entire book.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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#57
The main characters from the village where most of the action starts have been cast:

https://variety.com/2019/tv/news/wheel-o...203302153/
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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#58
Not super stoked about Mat being a white guy (it's especially weird with all the other Emond's Field natives in this cast being black), but can't complain about the rest of that casting.
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#59
(08-14-2019, 07:02 PM)Fafhrd Wrote: Not super stoked about Mat being a white guy ...

Why does the color of skin, one way or the other, matter to you when it isn't exactly a significant plot point in the novel(s)?

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#60
Given that Emond's Field and most of the nearest towns and cities are very much coded as Medieval European, we ought to be celebrating that three of the five main characters are being portrayed by POC instead of lamenting that Mat's white. We could've easily had an entirely white main cast here.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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#61
Isn’t Mat Cauthon white in the books? Great to see some diversity in the other roles (especially the women, like Nynaeve).
"These guys are pros, Michael. They're gonna push the tension 'till the last possible moment before they strip."

 
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#62
(08-14-2019, 08:00 PM)Overlord Wrote:
(08-14-2019, 07:02 PM)Fafhrd Wrote: Not super stoked about Mat being a white guy ...

Why does the color of skin, one way or the other, matter to you when it isn't exactly a significant plot point in the novel(s)?

Rand not looking like he could be from Emond's Field kind of is a significant plot point. Having another straight up white guy who was born and raised there and can trace his family in Emond's Field back all the way to Manetheren breaks that a bit.

And Two Rivers folk are culturally coded as Medieval European but are also explicitly described as predominantly dark haired, dark eyed, and olive skinned. Mat should be Latino.
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#63
(08-14-2019, 09:31 PM)Fafhrd Wrote: And Two Rivers folk are culturally coded as Medieval European but are also explicitly described as predominantly dark haired, dark eyed, and olive skinned. Mat should be Latino.

The Emond's Fielders are most definitely NOT described as olive skinned. They are heavily coded in the books as standard white Medieval European. Folks from Tear and Illian and Arad Doman are described as having darker or olive skin. The Sea Folk are described has having sun darkened skin, too.

My assumption with Rand is that, given his hair color and eye color are actually important to the character (vs, say, Nynaeve, who doesn't need to be white for any reason) that they'll likely either dye his hair or give him a wig and contacts.

Along those lines: I DO wonder what they're gonna do with the Aiel. And Shara.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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#64
I find it endlessly fascinating how people seem to have rooting interests over skin color for parts for which skin color is irrelevant.

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#65
(08-14-2019, 10:27 PM)MichaelM Wrote:
(08-14-2019, 09:31 PM)Fafhrd Wrote: And Two Rivers folk are culturally coded as Medieval European but are also explicitly described as predominantly dark haired, dark eyed, and olive skinned. Mat should be Latino.

The Emond's Fielders are most definitely NOT described as olive skinned. They are heavily coded in the books as standard white Medieval European. Folks from Tear and Illian and Arad Doman are described as having darker or olive skin. The Sea Folk are described has having sun darkened skin, too.

I just searched through and yeah, olive skinned was an exaggeration, but they're definitely darker skinned than Rand. From Eye of the World:
Quote:Elaida had put down her knitting, Rand realized, and was studying him. She rose from her stool and slowly came down from the dais to stand before him. "From the Two Rivers?" she said. She reached a hand toward his head; he pulled away from her touch, and she let her hand drop. "With that red in his hair, and gray eyes? Two Rivers people are dark of hair and eye, and they seldom have such height." Her hand darted out to push back his coat sleeve, exposing lighter skin the sun had not reached so often. "Or such skin."

(08-14-2019, 10:47 PM)Overlord Wrote: I find it endlessly fascinating how people seem to have rooting interests over skin color for parts for which skin color is irrelevant.

So it's totally cool to have Ged be white in every adaptation of Earthsea? Or we should just cast everybody white, unless there are plot reasons for them not to be?
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#66
That's essentially Elaida seeing Rand's (literal) farmer's tan. And it was RJ's in-joke to make the desert dwelling people basically the Irish: incredibly fair skinned and redhaired.

Domani, Illianers, Tairens, and Sea Folk are all described as being various shades of tan/brown/darker skinned. Pretty much the rest of the continent is a mix of basic white people.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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#67
Actually, my first thought was "Well, someone's going to write a thinkpiece about a black actor playing the great big strong dude who talks to wolves."
My karmic debt must be huge.

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#68
Clickbait thinkpieces are inevitable for any media property.

(Which is my way of agreeing with you.)
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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#69
(08-16-2019, 07:31 AM)MichaelM Wrote: That's essentially Elaida seeing Rand's (literal) farmer's tan. And it was RJ's in-joke to make the desert dwelling people basically the Irish: incredibly fair skinned and redhaired.
She's noticing his farmer's tan and remarking on how unusual it is that someone from the Two Rivers would have a tan. There's also an earlier bit when Rand first gets to Caemlyn where he thinks that everyone's skin is either 'too dark or too light' implying that the people in the Two Rivers are somewhere in between.

And none of the countries in the books are ethnically homogeneous. The Two Rivers is mostly homogeneous because of it's isolation, and the Aiel and Sea Folk are again because of the isolation and hostility to outsiders. The Breaking of The World mixed up all the countries and regions of the world. And the Age of Legends was a couple thousand years of global peace and harmony and magic and super science where people literally teleported anywhere in the world to get around. You don't go from that to a continent of 'basic white people.'
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#70
Cairhiennin are short. Saldaeans have hooked noses. Tairens are usually darker skinned (Juilin Sandar's "teak" skin color). Domani are "coppery skinned."

I do think you're making a good case for a more heterogeneous population than I assumed but Jordan most definitely suggests that each nationality has easily visible physical traits and characteristics, including skin color, which suggests that in the 3,000 years since the breaking, there's a fair level of homogeneous-ness (a word I just made up!) to each country's population.

There's zero evidence that anyone native to Randland would be what we consider "black" or African. Those would be the Sharans, if I'm not mistaken. (Which I might be!)

Also: this is sort of a weird argument since I'm completely in favor of the diverse casting!
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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