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West Side Story Pre-Release Discussion (Spielberg ... 2020?) sponsored by Overlord
WAR HORSE is Kaminski's best-looking effort. It's gorgeous.
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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*watches trailer*

But what's the plot??

(jk I've seen the original movie)

I wonder what calibration settings Kaminski uses on his TV.
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War Horse really is a beautiful film.

As for this teaser, I could've used a bit more, but that showdown looked great.  Who knows how many chances we'll have to catch new Spielberg on the big screen?  I'll definitely be there.
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(04-26-2021, 11:35 AM)mr. stockslivevan Wrote: It’s like ever since CRYSTAL SKULL he’s been Chud’s favorite whipping boy.

I mean, Crystal Skull is an absolutely abysmal, embarrassing effort in regards to color-grading and cinematography.  It says something when random faneditors can make the film look significantly better (and far more similar to the earlier entries in the series) using civilian-level computers and software.

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So he’ll never live it down huh.
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Last time I watched it I thought it looked significantly better. In the theater it looked washed out and horrible. On blu, on my set up, it looked a whole lot better. Not as good as the first three but not straight up ugly. It had a richness to it that the awful theatrical presentation I was subjected to utterly lacked.

Point still stands though. It should've been someone other than Kaminski.

West Side Story may be the least I've ever looked forward to a Steven Spielberg movie. I hate that he's using up his few remaining films on things like this. But hey, if he gets some sort of fulfillment out of it....more power to him..

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It's been like 13 years since Crystal Skull came out, and in the ensuing years, 90% of the cineastes on the boards, who probably couldn't describe three-point lighting without having to Google it, have become experts in cinematography, convinced that because one movie didn't look like three other movies (shot by a different DP), then all of Kaminiski's subsequent movies look bad for some reason.
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I'm obviously no expert but I feel like Kaminski and Indy are an odd mix. But every other Spielberg movie that Kaminski has done looks outstanding IMO. Especially Minority Report and War of the Worlds. I think he does even better with other directors..

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(04-26-2021, 04:22 PM)bradito Wrote: It's been like 13 years since Crystal Skull came out, and in the ensuing years, 90% of the cineastes on the boards, who probably couldn't describe three-point lighting without having to Google it, have become experts in cinematography, convinced that because one movie didn't look like three other movies (shot by a different DP), then all of Kaminiski's subsequent movies look bad for some reason.

Since this appears to be a barb pointed at my direction, I don't believe I've ever called out any of Kaminski's cinematography on anything EXCEPT Crystal Skull.

I don't need a Masters in something film-related in order to immediately recognize that Crystal Skull looks absolutely nothing like the other Indy movies, and considering Spielberg went out of his way to indicate that this was a focus of the production efforts, that spectacular of a failure is something even my untrained self feels comfortable commenting on.

Someone pointing out that a meal tastes terrible doesn't require them to know how to cook it themselves.

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(04-26-2021, 04:54 PM)Overlord Wrote:
(04-26-2021, 04:22 PM)bradito Wrote: It's been like 13 years since Crystal Skull came out, and in the ensuing years, 90% of the cineastes on the boards, who probably couldn't describe three-point lighting without having to Google it, have become experts in cinematography, convinced that because one movie didn't look like three other movies (shot by a different DP), then all of Kaminiski's subsequent movies look bad for some reason.

Since this appears to be a barb pointed at my direction, I don't believe I've ever called out any of Kaminski's cinematography on anything EXCEPT Crystal Skull.

I don't need a Masters in something film-related in order to immediately recognize that Crystal Skull looks absolutely nothing like the other films in the trilogy, and considering Spielberg went out of his way to indicate that was a point of focus, to fail that spectacularly is something even my untrained self feels comfortable commenting on.

When is the last time you watched it?

I'm not asking this to try to tell you you're wrong. I'm just curious..

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(04-26-2021, 04:56 PM)fraid uh noman Wrote:
(04-26-2021, 04:54 PM)Overlord Wrote:
(04-26-2021, 04:22 PM)bradito Wrote: It's been like 13 years since Crystal Skull came out, and in the ensuing years, 90% of the cineastes on the boards, who probably couldn't describe three-point lighting without having to Google it, have become experts in cinematography, convinced that because one movie didn't look like three other movies (shot by a different DP), then all of Kaminiski's subsequent movies look bad for some reason.

Since this appears to be a barb pointed at my direction, I don't believe I've ever called out any of Kaminski's cinematography on anything EXCEPT Crystal Skull.

I don't need a Masters in something film-related in order to immediately recognize that Crystal Skull looks absolutely nothing like the other films in the trilogy, and considering Spielberg went out of his way to indicate that was a point of focus, to fail that spectacularly is something even my untrained self feels comfortable commenting on.

When is the last time you watched it?

I'm not asking this to try to tell you you're wrong. I'm just curious..

I watched an entirely regraded version of Crystal Skull sometime mid last year and I thought the changed color-grading represented a significant improvement (I swapped out several times with the original in order to compare).

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Overlord's gotta make everything about him!
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(04-26-2021, 05:00 PM)Bradito Wrote: Overlord's gotta make everything about him!

[Image: tenor.gif]

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(04-26-2021, 04:58 PM)Overlord Wrote:
(04-26-2021, 04:56 PM)fraid uh noman Wrote:
(04-26-2021, 04:54 PM)Overlord Wrote:
(04-26-2021, 04:22 PM)bradito Wrote: It's been like 13 years since Crystal Skull came out, and in the ensuing years, 90% of the cineastes on the boards, who probably couldn't describe three-point lighting without having to Google it, have become experts in cinematography, convinced that because one movie didn't look like three other movies (shot by a different DP), then all of Kaminiski's subsequent movies look bad for some reason.

Since this appears to be a barb pointed at my direction, I don't believe I've ever called out any of Kaminski's cinematography on anything EXCEPT Crystal Skull.

I don't need a Masters in something film-related in order to immediately recognize that Crystal Skull looks absolutely nothing like the other films in the trilogy, and considering Spielberg went out of his way to indicate that was a point of focus, to fail that spectacularly is something even my untrained self feels comfortable commenting on.

When is the last time you watched it?

I'm not asking this to try to tell you you're wrong. I'm just curious..

I watched an entirely regraded version Crystal sometime mid last year and I thought the changed color-grading represented a significant improvement (I swapped out several times with the original in order to compare).

That's fair enough. Last time I watched it, I felt a lot of it....particularly in the first hour....looked fine. A little pee yellow. But otherwise, pretty good. Spectre is what it most looks like to me. The theater I watched it in messed it up BAD and I didn't watch it for a decade or more after that..

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At any rate, my point was, yes, he indeed let us down by not matching the look of the previous Jones films, but you guys are bananas if you think he's not talented in his own right.
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War Horse and Minority Report are testaments to his skill in extremely varied settings/tones.

Which makes the fact that Crystal Skull went so wrong even more perplexing.

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I love his work on Jerry Maguire!
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(04-26-2021, 05:15 PM)Nooj Wrote: I love his work on Jerry Maguire!

I mean, he lit and framed Kelly Preston to absolute perfection in That One Scene™.  

*chef's kiss*

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There is only one way to heal this wound.

Stop watching Crystal Skull. Just stop. You hate it. You've always hated it. You always will hate it. Instead of watching it to see if you'll hate it a little differently this time, watch another movie, perhaps one that you haven't seen. Watch an old movie, one made before you were born. Or watch the one that you keep meaning to see because you feel dopey for not having seen it yet.

Grow, stretch, challenge yourself!
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I'm actually legitimately curious to see how they might have [or might not have] updated the songs.

Hip hop flavor? More pronounced latin origins? Anything new?

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(04-26-2021, 05:08 PM)bradito Wrote: At any rate, my point was, yes, he indeed let us down by not matching the look of the previous Jones films, but you guys are bananas if you think he's not talented in his own right.

Just for the record...Kaminski doesn't feel like he ever was a good fit for this but I know I never said he was untalented. Despite all the bitching, I don't know if anyone has said that.

(04-26-2021, 05:22 PM)bradito Wrote: There is only one way to heal this wound.

Stop watching Crystal Skull. Just stop. You hate it. You've always hated it. You always will hate it. Instead of watching it to see if you'll hate it a little differently this time, watch another movie, perhaps one that you haven't seen. Watch an old movie, one made before you were born. Or watch the one that you keep meaning to see because you feel dopey for not having seen it yet.

Grow, stretch, challenge yourself!

I'm the one lucky guy who gets to keep watching it because I DO like it. Seems to be a more rare opinion than those who like the prequels nowadays.

Who watches movies over and over that they hate? Why do that? Admittedly....I hated Crystal Skull when I gave it the rewatch that changed my mind but...I had only seen it once and just felt it deserved another shot with a better presentation..

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It didn’t surprise me that Kaminski still did his thing with CRYSTAL SKULL. He didn’t exactly emulate Dean Cundey when doing JURASSIC WORLD.
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A.I. looked great last time I watched it. I'd get that one on 4K UHD.

I'll admit it, I don't know what three point lighting is!
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A.I. does look amazing. I think The Lost World actually looks better than Jurassic Park cinematography wise..

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I regret starting this based on 2 minutes of an unquestionably 2 plus hour movie. With at least one really standout shot in the trailer.

That said, I have certain expectations for the material, youthful, energetic, and romantic. I don't know if I'm getting a lot of that yet.

I wonder how the trailer plays for those that haven't seen the original.
"Such is the heroic burden. We must always mourn our fallen. Gone Forever! Dead like Robin! Like Supergirl! Deceased like Superman! Hal Jordan! All gone! I weep for them, and know that someday I shall join them. I must go weep. Like a hero." -- Kyle Baker
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(04-26-2021, 06:04 PM)mr. stockslivevan Wrote: It didn’t surprise me that Kaminski still did his thing with CRYSTAL SKULL. He didn’t exactly emulate Dean Cundey when doing JURASSIC WORLD.

Kaminski did Lost World, not Jurassic World.

Your point is still correct, though.

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The difference between Jurassic Park and The Lost World is not jarring though. TLW looks just a tad cooler and darker. That's about it..

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(04-26-2021, 06:22 PM)eviltwin Wrote: I regret starting this based on 2 minutes of an unquestionably 2 plus hour movie. With at least one really standout shot in the trailer.

That said, I have certain expectations for the material, youthful, energetic, and romantic. I don't know if I'm getting a lot of that yet.

I wonder how the trailer plays for those that haven't seen the original.

I do think this is a very fair thing to look for. WSS, done right, is really one of the ultimate forms of "musical numbers as an expression of emotions too big for words". Even the gang dance stuff in the Prologue is an embodiment of that - they're feeling so immortal and on top of the world, it just explodes into ballet. The emotions in the story are truly enormous and operatic, so we'll see if Spielberg is able to toe the line between that youthful energy and his late-period ruefulness and melancholy.
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I actually thought the shot of the women in golden dresses running in the street felt like a shot that could've been from that era of filmmaking
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I can't imagine why you'd want to remake West Side Story if you weren't trying to tap into that feeling explicitly.

I tend to think that if Spielberg is going to blow this, it's because he'll lean too hard into the emotions and render them maudlin. It won't be for lack of trying.
Brigadier Cousins on PSN
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(04-26-2021, 04:03 PM)Overlord Wrote:
(04-26-2021, 11:35 AM)mr. stockslivevan Wrote: It’s like ever since CRYSTAL SKULL he’s been Chud’s favorite whipping boy.

I mean, Crystal Skull is an absolutely abysmal, embarrassing effort in regards to color-grading and cinematography.  It says something when random faneditors can make the film look significantly better (and far more similar to the earlier entries in the series) using civilian-level computers and software.

Got a link or links to any specific ones you saw that really impressed you?  Love to see some improvements!

Of all my issues with KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL, the cinematography isn't even in the top ten.
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(04-26-2021, 11:39 PM)arjen rudd Wrote: I can't imagine why you'd want to remake West Side Story if you weren't trying to tap into that feeling explicitly.

I tend to think that if Spielberg is going to blow this, it's because he'll lean too hard into the emotions and render them maudlin. It won't be for lack of trying.

Yeah, I was reading that the original WSS was a huge early record/film for Spielberg (in the Vanity Fair feature on the film he said the score was the first "popular music" record he was allowed to have as a kid and he was absolutely obsessed with it). That's why out of all the musicals he could have made, this is the one - it was incredibly important to him growing up and now he's going to go for it.
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Crystal Skull is shot well. Kaminski did what he does and masterfully too, it's not his fault that Spielberg chose to shoot it differently.
I might have been born yesterday sir, but I stayed up all night!
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(04-26-2021, 11:39 PM)arjen rudd Wrote: I can't imagine why you'd want to remake West Side Story if you weren't trying to tap into that feeling explicitly.

I tend to think that if Spielberg is going to blow this, it's because he'll lean too hard into the emotions and render them maudlin. It won't be for lack of trying.

I do wonder how hard Spielberg is going to lean into the tragedy this time around. The first trailer does showcase the gun several times. I certainly feel that it's likely that the original theatrical ending is maintained.
"Such is the heroic burden. We must always mourn our fallen. Gone Forever! Dead like Robin! Like Supergirl! Deceased like Superman! Hal Jordan! All gone! I weep for them, and know that someday I shall join them. I must go weep. Like a hero." -- Kyle Baker
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Is there a version of West Side Story that doesn’t end that way?
Brigadier Cousins on PSN
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