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HAMILTON (Thomas Kail, 2020) - presented by Richard Drysdale and Disney+
#1




First thought is that it looks real good for a filmed production. This will definitely hold fans off until Ryan Coogler can make his version with Oscar Isaac and Michael B. Jordan.

Second thought is I want to know who Disney paid off or what changes they made, because there are definitely more than one f-bomb in the show and yet...PG-13.

Third thought: Actors have won Emmys for filmed productions of stage shows in the past. This, however, is being positioned as a movie with a planned theatrical release prior to coronavirus. It'll be fascinating to see with the new Oscar rules if this picks up any heat.

I am just personally glad this is coming out so I can finally cast Philippa Soo in the recasting drafts.
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#2
This might be an unpopular opinion, I don't know. But thank FUCK they're doing a filmed version of the actual show. I'll take that over a shitty version of Les Mis trying to crawl up Hugh Jackmans nose any day.
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#3
I think there's often confusion over what a filmed version is or isn't that it often leads folks to want a more "traditional" film adaptation. When people say "filmed version," that can mean any number of things of any level of quality. This is clearly a top-shelf production where Kail put thought into where the camera was going to go.
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#4
Unfortunately, I’ve heard it’s PG-13 due to the language being censored/edited out.
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#5
FUCK that.
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#6
The original recording of the CATS Broadway show adds special FX (Palpatine-esque lightning, for some reason).

So yeah, what's the blurred line between a professionally filmed show that has undergone post-production tweaking, and a movie?
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#7
This sort of thing always reminds me of those charmless performances at the Tony's. The worst of both worlds. None of the excitement of seeing it live and none of the magic that the filmed medium can provide.
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#8
I'll take what I can get, Evi!

EVIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
"I'd rather have hope...than nothing at all."
-Illyana Rasputin, X-Men: Omega #1

"But the public, knowing what it wanted, spinning happily, let the comic books survive."
-Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451

Twitter: @BartLBishop
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#9
well my name is hamilton and i'm here to say i like to rap in a historic way
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#10
(06-22-2020, 06:22 AM)chet ripley Wrote: Unfortunately, I’ve heard it’s PG-13 due to the language being censored/edited out.

I've heard multiple things - at one point it seems like they were considering bleeping out some of the language, but now there might just be additional language warnings? Apparently one of the obsessive ham fans called Disney customer support and asked about it but it still seems TBD.

(06-22-2020, 06:55 AM)freeman Wrote: FUCK that.

I'm going to try not to be Theater Guy up in this thread, but it's worth noting that musicals routinely have less explicit versions available for secondary licensing (high school, college, regional theaters, etc.). Any change to the original text of the script in those cases has to be approved by the author of the work or their heirs.

So especially given Disney's relationship with Miranda, it's fair to say that IF changes are made to the work regarding bleeped or edited language/content, any change made would be personally approved by him, so it would still be his vision.

(06-22-2020, 08:50 AM)bartleby_scriven Wrote: The original recording of the CATS Broadway show adds special FX (Palpatine-esque lightning, for some reason).

So yeah, what's the blurred line between a professionally filmed show that has undergone post-production tweaking, and a movie?

This is an excellent question, as the lines do get blurred, and I will answer this later in more depth. But to clarify, CATS 1998 was a specifically rewritten version of the show to fit a 2 hour run-time and not filmed in front of an audience. Whereas HAMILTON (and a few others) were filmed in front of a theatrical audience over several nights and then edited together.
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#11
Disney+ is blurring out cleavage from TV shows that ran on the Disney Channel. I will be pleasantly surprised if they don’t edit the language.
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#12
(06-22-2020, 09:39 AM)atomtastic Wrote: well my name is hamilton and i'm here to say i like to rap in a historic way



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#13
The MPAA was steadfast about the language, so LMM edited - but did not remove - two of the three fucks in the show.

https://twitter.com/Lin_Manuel/status/12...5183580162

As noted above by me (!), this is really no different than what creators do for secondary licensing all the time.
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#14
radio edit!
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#15
who gives a shit if they take 1 or 2 fucks out. They can sell the Blu with all the fucks and I'll buy that.
AIt's just tits and dragons. - Ian McShane on Game of Thones
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#16
(06-22-2020, 04:17 PM)anyawatchin angel Wrote: who gives a shit if they take 1 or 2 fucks out.  They can sell the Blu with all the fucks and I'll buy that.

A) It’s censorship, and B) Disney’s physical releases have dwindled since Disney+ came out.  I wouldn’t be surprised if this doesn’t get a physical release.  Even if it does, Disney does not release unrated cuts.
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#17
It's not censorship, though. It's the creator (Miranda) doing what he's talked about for months, which is making slight adjustments to the work to appeal to a different, perhaps more widely accessible, audience.

If anyone had the power to tell Disney (or any studio) that the work had to be shown as performed, it was Lin Manuel Miranda with this show. He could have told Disney "you can't cut the language, it's going to have to be R, and that's going in the contract." But he clearly didn't because...see above. And why put your foot down about two lines in a filmed production when the real battle is going to be over the rights for a full adaptation?

Again, there are literally hundreds of school editions of very popular shows to make challenging works more accessible to amateur performers. The school edition of RENT takes out the big number in act two about fucking. Others adjust the music slightly to make it easier to sing. Most authors are pretty comfortable about changing certain things. Others will insist that certain things can't be changed. But what matters is that it's the choice of the author/creators.

It's not like Disney took the work away from Miranda, bleeped all three fucks, cut out the sexy dancing and the number about Hamilton having a beer and cheeting on his wife (yes, that's coming back), and cast Jason Alexander as Ben Franklin, losing to a bird. That would be censorship.

The thematic and emotional elements of Hamilton are still going to be there. Nothing is going to change because Miranda chose to adjust the audio on two lines in a three hour show.
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#18
I thought that 'southern mother-fucking democratic republicans' was the only full-on 'fuck' in the show. The two reads of James Reynolds's letter both cut it off before it can be fully uttered, with Hamilton just trailing off into 'fffuuuuuuuu--' and Jefferson's 'Whaat?!' interrupting the second time.
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#19
From "Yorktown (The World Turned Upside Down):

"We in the shit now, somebody gotta shovel it
Hercules Mulligan, I need no introduction
When you knock me down I get the fuck back up again"

And I believe that "motherfucker" is an automatic R.
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#20
(06-22-2020, 06:06 PM)chet ripley Wrote:
(06-22-2020, 04:17 PM)anyawatchin angel Wrote: who gives a shit if they take 1 or 2 fucks out.  They can sell the Blu with all the fucks and I'll buy that.

A) It’s censorship, and B) Disney’s physical releases have dwindled since Disney+ came out.  I wouldn’t be surprised if this doesn’t get a physical release.  Even if it does, Disney does not release unrated cuts.
It's business. If the gov't made him then it's censorship. LMM could have sold this to HBOMAX or Netflix with no cuts, same money. He chose Disney for a reason.
AIt's just tits and dragons. - Ian McShane on Game of Thones
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#21
someone will create a fan edit using the existing versions of the songs!

please, watch my fanedit
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#22
Man if you think taking out two fucks is censorship wait until you find out what filmmakers have to do so the MPAA will give them the ratings they need.
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#23
I have two questions: What is Hamilton and why should I care?

That turn of phrase always sounds a little harsh but sincere questions all the same.
I'm vaguely aware that caused some fuss a little while ago and ignited the passions of some folks in a big way. My drive by take is they seemed like folks who are still in that phase (or would like to be) of believing that art can change the world (and/or that art is how you change the world). Being so sanguine about a musical of all things is pretty unlikely for me, to say the least. But, all the same, I'm curious what the big deal is.
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#24
It's a hell of a live action show. I saw it when it toured here in Minneapolis and it was fantastic, just a wonderful high energy experience.
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#25
Hamilton is a Broadway musical that tells the story of the life of Alexander Hamilton, narrated largely by Aaron Burr, who famously killed Hamilton in a duel. It uses contemporary musical forms like pop, rap, jazz, soul, and the like. Additionally, it features a cast of almost entirely performers of color in the historical roles of the founding fathers. After an acclaimed off-Broadway run at the Public Theater (which is where the "I saw it at the Public" joke in KNIVES OUT comes from), it transferred to Broadway, won a bunch of Tonys and is one of the rare musicals (nine others) to have won a Pulitzer Prize for Drama.

As for why you should care, I think it does a really wonderful job of conveying the youth and immediacy of the founding of America. I'd compare it to something like THE LAST TEMPTATION OF CHRIST and Christopher Moore's LAMB in that it humanizes these icons who have so routinely been seen wearing wigs and in paintings. It's also wonderful to see, from the choreography to the direction to the performances, particularly Leslie Odom Jr. as Burr.

Does it have problems? Sure!

Is it definitely one link in a chain of musicals loved by theater kids (who I thought of when you talked about art that could change the world)? Oh, without a doubt, although DEAR EVAN HANSEN and BE MORE CHILL have also come along to occupy their hearts.

That said, I do think it's worth seeing beyond the fact I think it's really good. If you're interested in the history of musicals, this is probably the biggest one to come along since WICKED (and before that, RENT), and like RENT, you can - or could - look around shows that followed Hamilton and see people willing to take risks on more creative and engaging theatrical work.

But that brings me to my last point, which is the one time I'll get on this soap box in this thread, and that's that theater right now is really struggling. Like, it is straight up dying. A lot of industries are, but they're now saying Broadway won't reopen for at least another eight months, and it's going to be rough when it does. To say nothing of the smaller theaters and off-Broadway houses like the Public (which also did the first production of A CHORUS LINE, among others) that routinely act as labs for productions like Hamilton. And Hamilton itself has multiple productions in multiple cities and multiple tours. It employs a lot of people, people who are now out of work for the most part.

But Hamilton's residual structure is different from other shows; in addition to the creators and producers of the work, all of the performers of the original Broadway cast (which this is with one exception) share in those profits, including from those multiple productions mentioned above. So that's money that isn't coming into those performers. I don't know what the exact structure of streaming residuals is something like this, but Lin-Manuel Miranda, the writer/star, is very protective of his fellow castmates and, as mentioned up thread, he held a lot of the cards here when making this deal with Disney. Additionally, the money that "Hamilton Inc." (which manages and funds all these other productions) makes off this will be used to either keep employed or quickly rehire the thousands they employ when theater does start to open up back again.

I get that it's Disney and it's a huge corporation and Hamilton is easy to make fun of (hell, even I make fun of it), but this is an instance where watching Hamilton or paying the 7 bucks to sign up for Disney+ or whatever actually puts money in the pockets of artists and supports one of our great collective art forms, theater. And I know that's silly and sentimental and whatever, but I know people working in this industry and so when they say watching Hamilton will help, I believe them.
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#26
(06-24-2020, 01:04 PM)boone daniels Wrote: It uses contemporary musical forms like pop, rap, jazz, soul, and the like.

For some reason I read this line as containing the word razz (which I suppose would be an amalgam of jazz and rap) and now I wonder if such a thing exists.

muzman: if it helps, I generally HATE musicals and even I'm kinda stoked to watch this, based on all the buzz (and my daughters' unwavering adoration for the music).
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#27
Thanks Michael, Judas and Boon. Yeah, some people get so excited about musicals it must be hard for them to deal with normal stuff where people just talk. I can't really relate to that at all, but every now and then is fine. It really helps if I like the music too, which doesn't happen much. (it's gotta be a bit old school usually)

(06-24-2020, 01:04 PM)boone daniels Wrote: Hamilton is ...
Many thanks for all that. It does sound interesting and just the fact that it caught on so much adds to that.
A while ago I seemed to bump into it all over the east coast media-sphere as people were either praising it or trying to tamp down enthusiasm for it as not really being an open revolt against Trump or something like that.
I didn't catch the background but it seemed like they had inserted some reference or statements about (then) current events in the show. Did anything like that happen or have I got the wrong end of the stick?
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#28
It's worth noting about the show itself that Miranda is a remarkably adept composer capable of working in a number of different styles and genres, and a lot of the music, particularly the ballads and the love songs, have a slightly more traditional "old school" feel.

The show opened at the Public in the early winter of 2015, well before Trump announced he was running, but the line "immigrants - we get the job done" was met with increasing applause throughout 2015 and 2016. Obviously any work of art is political, and so you could write a whole thing about a show starring actors of color playing the founding fathers who "made America great," but there's nothing in the show that was a rebuke to Trump per se. If anything, it's been politicians (from Clinton to Obama to John Bolton) who have referenced lines from the show in their speeches and books, rather than the show referencing specific politicians.

However, you're probably thinking of something that happened during the New York production shortly after Trump's election in 2016, where Mike Pence and his kids attended a performance of the show. Pence was booed by the audience before the show started, and after the show ended, during curtain call, the actor who was playing Burr at the time spoke directly to Pence from the stage on behalf of the cast/crew/creative team. He basically appealed to Pence's sense of decency and asked him to maybe help his new boss be not such a racist goon...which, of course, worked out great. But it later came out that Trump basically asked Pence to go to Hamilton in hopes that he'd provoke/stoke a reaction that could be used to keep up the culture war...which, of course, has been Trump's "Born to Run" on his Spotify playlist of grotesqueries.
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#29
It's good!

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/30/movie...-plus.html
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#30
(06-24-2020, 01:13 PM)MichaelM Wrote:
(06-24-2020, 01:04 PM)boone daniels Wrote: It uses contemporary musical forms like pop, rap, jazz, soul, and the like.

For some reason I read this line as containing the word razz (which I suppose would be an amalgam of jazz and rap) and now I wonder if such a thing exists.

muzman: if it helps, I generally HATE musicals and even I'm kinda stoked to watch this, based on all the buzz (and my daughters' unwavering adoration for the music).

This feels like a great time to once again bring up the fact that Max Rebo's band played a style of music called Jizz.  This is Star Wars canon.

Also, Hamilton is amazing.  I've seen it three times in Chicago and each time I've seen or heard new things.  It's a whirlwind.  If you choose not to watch it, it's out of stubbornness than anything else.
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#31
(06-22-2020, 09:27 PM)boone daniels Wrote: From "Yorktown (The World Turned Upside Down):

"We in the shit now, somebody gotta shovel it
Hercules Mulligan, I need no introduction
When you knock me down I get the fuck back up again"

And I believe that "motherfucker" is an automatic R.

Yes, sexual fucks get you an R.
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#32
(06-24-2020, 12:31 PM)muzman Wrote: I have two questions:  What is Hamilton and why should I care?

Answers are likely to lean into all the political context and subtext etc, but imo all you really need to know is it's a good story with endearing characters that rollicks along with a ton of great songs, with an attention to detail that rewards repeat viewings/listenings. The second half is an emotional rollercoaster even though the story by that point is mostly driven by a load of dry bureaucratic negotiations.
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#33
YMMV on the "great songs" claim. 

Considering how much I loved the Moana soundtrack, I was shocked by how little I cared for Hamilton's.

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#34
What, you don't like Broadway raps?
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#35
I haven't listened to the entire soundtrack but the few songs I have heard were fine? The songs are better than the raps, which aren't too bad but are rapping in the same way that Andrew Lloyd Webber is "rock"
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