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Pre-Release Matrix Reloaded Discussion
#71
Especially stupid shit like "Hiya fellas."

Wait.
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#72
Quote:

mikah912:
Carl, desert it.

The Matrix has zip to do with the prequels, and people aren't getting excited because of the lines in this trailer.

Bullshit, don't tell me you didn't notice the lightsaber fight in the trailer.
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#73
I find it increasingly hard to be subjective and unbiased when I rant on about the sequels. Sorry, I'm just a moron. I've come to deal with it so hopefully others can too.
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#74
Micah, I KNEW you were going to chime in with that. You know why? Because, during the anti-prequel dialogue discussion I brought up this VERY SAME analogy and discrepancy. And your retort was, "Well, we're discussing Star Wars here not The Matrix". Well, now the new Matrix flick is upon us and I'm bringing it up. But again the subject is to be side-stepped. Fine.

Anyway, this is not meant to be anti-Matrix in the least. I never said that I had a problem with the dialogue the way it is. I am just pointing out that it's just as simple, stitled, and well "cheesy" as that of SW at times. Only no one wants to hear that pointed out because it doesn't fall in line with the majority rule opinion.

I've always been of the mind that the flicks should be free to have the cheesy dialogue if they wish. It's part of the style. You guys just simply are NOT being consistent here and THAT is what I am pointing out. Sorry you have a problem with it.

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#75
I personally love every line in the original, and I really liked Morpheus' line closing the trailer. Really great stuff.
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#76
I missed the part where folks (Bateman excepted, as usual) were praising the dialogue. Mostly, I see people geeking out over a very efficiently cut-together trailer that suggests the Wachowski's are going to deliver a supremely visceral thrill ride come May 16th.

I do, however, see a STAR WARS fan with an apparent axe to grind.
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#77
I personally think that if it came down to it, I would probably go on and on about the choice of socks for the twins so my opinion as usual is irrelevant.
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#78
Quote:

Sean Bateman, Samurai Journalist:
I personally love every line in the original, and I really liked Morpheus' line closing the trailer. Really great stuff.

And you know what? That's great. I have NO problem with that.

It's just too bad SW fans aren't awarded the same courtesy.
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#79
Quote:

Clarence Beaks:
I missed the part where folks (Bateman excepted, as usual) were praising the dialogue.

And where were the SW fans "praising" the AOTC dialogue when you came to shit in our sandbox?

Quote:

Clarence Beaks:
I do, however, see a STAR WARS fan with an apparent axe to grind.

As board owner of that term I am insulted by that insinuation. wink In all seriousness, do you REALLY not see my point and the inconsistency and unfairness here???
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#80
You know, as cheesy and whatnot as the Matrix dialogue is.. it sounds like Mamet next to the drek in the PT.
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#81
Quote:

Devin hates Saddam, hates the war:
You know, as cheesy and whatnot as the Matrix dialogue is.. it sounds like Mamet next to the drek in the PT.

Yes, Devin. Such lame hyperbole has already been uttered in this very thread. Only now we have a Mamet comparison to add to Shakespeare.

You guys couldn't try any harder to prove my point, could you? The best thing you could have done would have been to ignore this point ENTIRELY. But your sensitivity over it exposes the hypocrisy.
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#82
The sucky dialogue and bad acting of the first were instantly corrected before that film was over and this one began.

They sacked the godawful actor playing Tank and killed off the rest of the ship's crew. Morpheus, Neo, Trinity, etc. had great dialogue IMO and this trailer has a few nice lines too.

I'm seriously jazzed for this.
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#83
Quote:

Carl Cunningham®:
Quote:

Devin hates Saddam, hates the war:
You know, as cheesy and whatnot as the Matrix dialogue is.. it sounds like Mamet next to the drek in the PT.

Yes, Devin. Such lame hyperbole has already been uttered in this very thread. Only now we have a Mamet comparison to add to Shakespeare.

You guys couldn't try any harder to prove my point, could you? The best thing you could have done would have been to ignore this point ENTIRELY. But your sensitivity over it exposes the hypocrisy.

I'm not sensitive. I'm just procrastinating from transcribing interviews.
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#84
Where the fuck is Moo Moo?
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#85
Quote:

Carl Cunningham®:
Micah, I KNEW you were going to chime in with that. You know why? Because, during the anti-prequel dialogue discussion I brought up this VERY SAME analogy and discrepancy. And your retort was, "Well, we're discussing Star Wars here not The Matrix". Well, now the new Matrix flick is upon us and I'm bringing it up. But again the subject is to be side-stepped. Fine.

Anyway, this is not meant to be anti-Matrix in the least. I never said that I had a problem with the dialogue the way it is. I am just pointing out that it's just as simple, stitled, and well "cheesy" as that of SW at times. Only no one wants to hear that pointed out because it doesn't fall in line with the majority rule opinion.

I've always been of the mind that the flicks should be free to have the cheesy dialogue if they wish. It's part of the style. You guys just simply are NOT being consistent here and THAT is what I am pointing out. Sorry you have a problem with it.

Carl, what the....

What does The Matrix have to do with Star Wars? More importantly, who here is PRAISING the frickin' dialogue in that trailer? Just because we're not actively criticizing it, doesn't mean we think it's great.

As for consistency, that's BS. You can't apply consistent criticism to films because each film is its own animal and the individual element that made one film FAIL might be less impactful or even utterly irrelevant to another film that SUCCEEDS despite having the same low-quality element of the first film.

I criticized Star Wars' special effects. The ones in Anger Management are crap, too, so even though they comprise maybe one percent of that film, let me harp on that the exact same for consistency. Boy, I'm being fair now...
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#86
Quote:

Devin hates Saddam, hates the war:
I'm not sensitive. I'm just procrastinating from transcribing interviews.

<img src="http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/images/smilies/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Well, let's go "procrastinate" in another thread. This one has become more touchy than even those in the Politics forum.
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#87
Quote:

Carl Cunningham®:
You guys couldn't try any harder to prove my point, could you? The best thing you could have done would have been to ignore this point ENTIRELY. But your sensitivity over it exposes the hypocrisy.

No offense, man, but that kinda talk really sounds like borderline trolling.
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#88
Quote:

Carl Cunningham®:
And where were the SW fans "praising" the AOTC dialogue when you came to shit in our sandbox?

That sandbox, at least when I came to pinch off my respects, was the discussion of the finished film. At that point, we knew what worked and didn't work in the context of the film, and could bat around ear-splittingly awful utterances without jumping to conlcusions about how they might work within the fabric of the film.

Inconsistency? Unfairness? Nope. I see *honest* reactions to an eye-popping trailer where the dialogue is barely a consideration. Having watched the trailer a few times, I'll certainly allow that the dialogue isn't necessarily "sparkling", but it's functional. It's not glaringly bad. Perhaps that assessment will change once I see the movie (I'm not a fan of the overly deliberate line readings from the first film), but until then.... wow! Great eye candy!

And STAR WARS? Didn't that end in 1983?
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#89
Carl's crossed that border awhile back. But his lack of consistency about the axe-grinding makes for interesting subtext here.
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#90
Oh for what riles the Chewers when one speaks his mind openly and it does not coincide with their own.

Now I am merely a "troll". I see. Thanks for the clarification, guys.

Enjoy your discussion in a bubble...
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#91
Where's Matchstick?
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#92
Smeigel, a.k.a me, says " Damnit, I'm actually not going to watch it. I want to go in fresh damnit.

No, we must watch it, I needs it.

NO, it will show to much cool stuff!

But every one else has seen it.

ARHG! Were not going to watch it, it will be so much better this way!

Oh, ok."

Really, I'm not going to watch it. If it comes on TV I'll kung-fu drop kick the damn thing.
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#93
This is not a movie you go to see for the dialogue anyway. We all know what everyone will see this for: The effects, the action.

The dialogue in the first wasn't that good(It's all in the delivery and Keanu....never delivers), but it didn't ruin the movie at all.
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#94
It definitely looks like an exciting movie. I'll be there on day one.
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#95
I actually think that the original Matrix had a fair amount going for it beyond just the effects and the action.

I remember seeing it the week it came out, completely expecting it to be Johnny Mnemonic 2, a B-grade sci-fi action film with some fun visuals and hopefully a decent action scene.

By the time that Reeves' mouth sealed shut and they stuck a probe in his belly, following it up with fields of fetus-harvesters and bizarrely cryptic pseudo-prophecy, I was impressed. Not just because it wasn't as bad as I was expecting, but because it was so ambitious. Most action/Scifi films try to do one thing well, the action or the concept/world (see Gattacca for one without the other).

But the Matrix (much like the original Star Wars) crammed in both an incredibly tight and economical amount of world-building exposition and plot, but also managed to keep it exciting with great action scenes just when the movie is beginning to bog down under the weight of Fishburne's dramatic pauses.

That economy of story, plot, and action is what elevates the Matrix above the prequels in my opinion, not the actual quality of the words themselves. Dialogue is a subjective like or dislike, but the bloat and incoherence of the new SW films, coupled with utterly unlikeable characters kills them for me, not just the lame bon mots.
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#96
Jesus Christ. They are not even kidding around with that trailer, are they?
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#97
Doesn't Jack Frost say "Hiya, fellas" in an issue of The Invisibles?
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#98
Dane hates poofs, man.
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#99
Also: Quiet, nit.
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Quote:

cynicaster:
The first Matrix had its cheesy moments no doubt, in fact that was my one criticism (the sole criticism) I had with the first film. But the dialogue worked regardless because it was really only a few isolated incidences. Besides if you know any philosophy there is a lot more going on in some of the dialogue (coming from Morpheus mostly) than most take into consideration. The Star Wars prequels on the other hand were horrendous, absolutely positively terrible. The dialogue and especially the delivery was impressively poor, jesus the acting was bad. I cannot comprehend how some can so vehemently defend either prequel, let alone defend them at all. If you liked EP:I or AOTC, fine, everyone is entitled to like whatever they want but you cannot, CANNOT! tell me that the dialogue or the acting was better in the prequels than the Matrix. I know its hard to compare movies but i think we can all agree that there is good acting and there is bad acting and it is not a matter of opinion, at least when considering extremes, on which is which. The same goes for dialogue. No it's not fact, yes it is subjective but rational analysis can only lead you in one direction. How much you like something and how good it is may be two totally different things. You may not like Hamlet but if you truly understand it you can't deny it's well written, right? You may not like Tom Clancy but his writing isn't "bad", he writes in a way to suit his storytelling and it does. But if I wrote you a novel you'd better know that it sucks balls and still could have written better dialogue than George Lucas, no fucking joke.

PARAGRAPHS!!!
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Quote:

Carl Cunningham®:
It's just too bad SW fans aren't awarded the same courtesy.

Carl, I think you are a little more than a SW fan.

My love for the OT was consistent until I saw the lame prequels, which were asstastic.

I am not a huge fan of the Matrix (I can only remember having seen it all the way through only ONCE), but I will say that the effects that John Gaeta and his crew have pulled together for these flicks knocks the SW stuff out of the park.
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God damn that trailer kicked ass. Neo flying at the end- terrific.

But when he was fighting all the Agent Smiths, didn't the CG look awful? Hopefully that was just temporary stuff but if not, it's horrible-looking.
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GOOD GOD, that was amazing. As for the debate, take it outside fellas, preferably with lightsabers.
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the subject is:// ----&gt; Pre-release Matrix Reloaded Discussion
-----------------------------------

my initial reaction and observations.

- Great trailer.
- mediocre dialogues.
- impressive sfx.
- agent smith still rocks.
- Trinity is still very androgynous, she also looks like a dominatrix.
- impressive fight choreographies.
- Neo & morpheus are still the same,in other words... terrorists. (and selfish corrupters & both have nice taste in clothes).
- Gaeta and co did a great work.
- Bellucci looks like a real woman.
- Pinkett Smith is apparently contaminated by the trinitium syndrome.

I'm there!...the matrix reloaded looks entertaining enough I.m.i.o.
-----------------------------------

drink recipe of the moment
'Grateful Dead'

1/4 oz vodka
1/4 oz rum
1/4 oz tequila
1/4 oz triple sec
1/4 oz chambord
combine all ingredients in a rocks glass.
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Carl, you're being unfair. First of all, no one was talking about bad dialogue after watching the TPM *trailer.* Because whatever the quality of the dialogue, it didn't hurt the trailer's momentum or energy.

Secondly, it's all opinion, granted, but I think you'll have a hard time finding people who feel that the Matrix dialogue is as awkward as the prequels'. There's a cheesy patch or two. It doesn't hurt the film because it doesn't yank you out of it. (Maybe on a third or fourth viewing there are a couple of lines that come off as goofy.)

But both the prequels (TPM especially) have dialogue that's so "off" that it really hurts the scene. And it tends to acumulate, too. There were some genuinely great lines in both prequels, but for the most part you remember the dialogue as being "bad". The Matrix, I'd say, you don't really remember the dialogue at all, in a good way or a bad way. That means that at worst it just does its job. (And there's lots of exposition in the Matrix, too, but it never feels clunky.)

But that's not really important, because this is about the trailer. And I don't think being jazzed about it can possibly be construed as being insular and retreating into a bubble of delusion. For crying out loud, I was insanely buzzed about TPM before it came out, getting into extended arguments with people who "knew" it was going to be disappointing. (And they didn't--for the most part I was arguing they should just give it a chance.) Implying that we've somehow got blinders on at this point is unreasonable and, frankly, hypocritical.
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