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The Wheel of Time
It only gets worse. Consider that he covers the events of the first year in about 4 books....and there's TEN books after to cover the next year.

I don't think you really feel the slowdown until book 6, but it's in book 7 that it becomes oppressive. The ineptness of the Forsaken and the pointless political minutiae of the Aes Sedai become more and more ridiculous as the series goes on.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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(08-08-2019, 09:48 AM)MichaelM Wrote: It only gets worse. Consider that he covers the events of the first year in about 4 books....and there's TEN books after to cover the next year.

I don't think you really feel the slowdown until book 6, but it's in book 7 that it becomes oppressive. The ineptness of the Forsaken and the pointless political minutiae of the Aes Sedai become more and more ridiculous as the series goes on.

The first six books, as far as I am aware, are near universally beloved amongst fans of the series.  

Book seven (Crown of Swords), is where it all goes to shit.

The rest of the Pre-Sanderson books are, as far as I can tell, near universally reviled.  I think you could summarize them into four or five pages and really miss very little.  I've read Crossroads of Twilight twice and I consider it one of the all-time worst efforts from a major fantasy author.  Knife of Dreams may be liked a little bit more than the rest ...   

The Sanderson novels are pretty divisive.  On the whole, I quite like them.  Certainly a vast improvement on the prior few iterations.

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Which leads to another question: given that life and time are finite, and there are a near unlimited number of other, non-WoT books out there that require attention: after book six, should I just skip on to the Sanderson novels and read the wiki pages on the rest?


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My advice: a compromise. I finally stopped somewhere in Knife of Dreams, but my approach from Book 7 on was to only read (actual text) only stuff from Rand's or Mat's POV (or from characters directly in their proximity for that chapter). Everything else I wiki'ed.

Overlord is correct about Crossroads. It's staggeringly bad. KoD is a slight uptick but just about anything from there would be. CoT has as its climax a huge, world-shaking event and it's written so poorly and unimaginatively I was shocked.

I haven't read the Sanderson novels; I've skimmed them. Sanderson's advantage is he Gets Shit Done. The disadvantage is that he's a very inartful writer; the prose never rises above workmanlike, and often not even that high. Probably the best thing that can be said about his contribution - not insignificant, given the prior 5 books - is that he moves things along and actually has things happen.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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Oh, but I really like Perrin’s homebound stuff in Shadow...


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That's pretty much the high point for the character, with the exception of the climax of Book 6. After that....ugh.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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Boooooo


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(08-08-2019, 02:40 PM)MichaelM Wrote: ...  the prose never rises above workmanlike, and often not even that high. 


Much of Sanderson's prose, particularly in his utterly fantastic depiction of Rand's confrontation of Semirhage and his arc through the end of Gathering Storm, is definitely above workmanlike.  My English degree qualifies me to draw this conclusion.

Also, you love the word "workmanlike" to describe writing.  

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And MY English degree qualifies me to negate your conclusion!
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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(08-08-2019, 07:15 PM)MichaelM Wrote: And MY English degree qualifies me to negate your conclusion!

What's your alma mater?

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Guys, guys, guys. As someone who also has an English degree, I think we can all take a chill pill and just say...

‘You want fries with that?’


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(08-08-2019, 07:45 PM)doc happenin Wrote: Guys, guys, guys. As someone who also has an English degree, I think we can all take a chill pill and just say...

‘You want fries with that?’

That's why I went to law school.  I knew I'd be unemployable outta undergrad.

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I taught school for two years and then sold out to corporate America.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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(08-08-2019, 09:10 PM)MichaelM Wrote: I taught school for two years and then sold out to corporate America.

What's your alma mater?

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(08-08-2019, 10:13 PM)Overlord Wrote:
(08-08-2019, 09:10 PM)MichaelM Wrote: I taught school for two years and then sold out to corporate America.

What's your alma mater?

Wright State University ("Wright State, wrong school").
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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(08-08-2019, 11:41 PM)MichaelM Wrote:
(08-08-2019, 10:13 PM)Overlord Wrote:
(08-08-2019, 09:10 PM)MichaelM Wrote: I taught school for two years and then sold out to corporate America.

What's your alma mater?

Wright State University ("Wright State, wrong school").

I see.

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I heard that sneer!
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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(08-09-2019, 09:56 PM)MichaelM Wrote: I heard that sneer!

Number one, baby!

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I have an actual thread for the TV show going but just to be thorough:

The main characters from the village where most of the action starts have been cast:

https://variety.com/2019/tv/news/wheel-o...203302153/

Looks like they're likely (smartly and out of necessity) aging the Emond's Fielders up a bit. Egwene is 16 (!) at the beginning of the story, and given that this could easily go 5+ seasons, they're going to need to make them a bit older to get away with the actual actors aging.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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Well, it worked so well with Bran on Ga—ohhh...


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I know it’s dramatic and a great way to put characters on the brink of the end, and lord knows Helm’s Deep is one of the greatest sequences in cinema, but after GoT overused it for what amounted to every. Single. Battle I can’t say I’m excited for yet another ‘last minute rescue to save our outnumbered friends’
I mean, the Emond’s Field attack was great just...I guess I really want to see tactics for once. Not a knock against SR, more just shrugging at season, ep8 or 9 when the attack happens.


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Jordan, who was a Vietnam vet and graduate the Citadel, seemed to consistently go for "fog of war" and "all plans melt at first contact with the enemy" approaches to describing battle.

And really, with Emond's Field, the only tactics available are to circle the wagons and dig in, since they're surrounded and can be hit on all/any sides.

Book 5 features a MASSIVE battle and it's portrayed similarly; with vignettes and impressions, not with overall tactics and clear descriptions of how all portions of the fight go.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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Which makes sense and it works in books, for sure. I’m also glad he had Faiel (sp?) at least sorta send a message ( :: cough Sansathefuck? :: ). Guess I’m burned out on victory snatched from the jaws of defeat and wanting to complain about something.


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That might be present in the final three books, but as far as I know, up until that point, we never get a tactical view of a battle with clear descriptions of troop movements and strategies, etc.

Without spoiling the specifics, there's an important battle in book 6 which might be a series highlight....and it might be the closest thing to what you're talking about, especially with Jordan showing us what a game/battle changer it is to have the One Power used...indiscriminately....in war.

Overlord knows of what I speak.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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(Yesterday, 02:48 PM)Wright State University Alumnus Wrote: That might be present in the final three books, but as far as I know, up until that point, we never get a tactical view of a battle with clear descriptions of troop movements and strategies, etc.

Without spoiling the specifics, there's an important battle in book 6 which might be a series highlight....and it might be the closest thing to what you're talking about, especially with Jordan showing us what a game/battle changer it is to have the One Power used...indiscriminately....in war.

Overlord knows of what I speak.

I totally know of what you speak and I was about to post nearly the same thing.

Unfortunately, after building to a frenetic finale to book six, Jordan then backs off and treads water for thousands of pages.  He either couldn't, or wasn't willing, to advance the "war" portion of the novels in terms of actually conveying what was happening.  His presentation was very much a "fog of war" type deal, and while that worked for individual characters going through a battle, I do wonder how coherently he could have presented what Sanderson ended up handling.  Because if he tried to do 400 pages of that style it would have been excruciating.

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The closest he comes is in...book 8, I think?...when a certain offshore group comes into contact with forces and channelers from Randland....but even that is VERY much "fog of war" style approach to depicting the conflict.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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