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Miller's Crossing
#36
I don't have much new to add, just a great, great movie with some of best dialogue I've seen in a movie. I'll echo the love for the score too.

Apparently the guy who played Nathan Arizona in Raising Arizona was all set to play Leo, but died right before production and the Cohen's had to scramble to get Albert Finney. It'd be neat to have seen that, but you can't complain about Finney's performance one bit.
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#37
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Macken
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....you can't complain about Finney's performance one bit.

Heck, I have a tough time imagining anyone else in the role of Leo, when you get down to it.
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#38
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Macken
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I don't have much new to add, just a great, great movie with some of best dialogue I've seen in a movie. I'll echo the love for the score too.

This cannot be stressed enough in my opinion. Watched it again a few weeks ago and holy shit the Coens have a way with words. Much like most of their other films this gets better every time I see it.
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#39


Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan "Nordling" Cerny View Post

Or the relationship between Shmatta, Mink, and the Dane.

I didn't realize that "schmatta" wasn't really Bernie's name while watching it. It's Yiddish for "rag".

I also didn't pick up on the possible homosexual subtext with the trio. Not until Barry Sonnenfeld mentions (in an interview on the dvd) John Turturro thanking him for the inspiration for his gay Jewish character. Sonnenfeld (according to his marriage) is not gay however.

Learned a bunch of period slang from this beautifully crafted flick. Got a kick watching Sam Raimi get gunned down on the street.

Great great film. Would play well in a double feature with ROUNDERS (loyalty, bad habits, JT) or LAST MAN STANDING (mob meets Yojimbo) I think.

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#40

Just picked up the blu ray of the film - fuck I've waited ages for this movie on blu - and am looking forward to sitting down with it as soon as humanly possible. A glass of Scotch or several may also be involved. I can't pick a favourite Coens film, but if you put a gun to my head this one would definitely be up there. Maybe top three. Or top two...

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#41

How is there not a Coen Brothers Appreciation mega-thread around here by now?

This film is the cinematic equivilant of a really fine wine. It needs to be sipped at, appreciated, returned to to see how well its aged.

It's a true, fine vintage of a movie.

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#42

This is the Coen's at their most elegant, can't say it's my favorite or their best but it's certainly their most epic and sweeping film.

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#43
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rain Dog View Post

How is there not a Coen Brothers Appreciation mega-thread around here by now?

I think the proper approach for the Coens' is for their best movies to all have mega-threads.

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#44
Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKMITE8 View Post


I didn't realize that "schmatta" wasn't really Bernie's name while watching it. It's Yiddish for "rag".

I remember learning somewhere that "schmatta" (sp?) is a Jewish term for a tailor - probably a slam on Benny being a clothes-horse.

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#45

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#46

Ok, the SECRET to this AWESOME film is quite simple, and resolves all the weird questions about both about Tom and the strange elements of the plot - such as the homosexuality.  The whole purpose of the homosexual love triangle is meant to clue us onto the final scene, which resolves ALL unanswered questions.



The ENTIRE FILM IS ABOUT TOM COMING TO TERMS WITH THE FACT THAT HE IS GAY AND IS IN LOVE WITH LEO.



That's the secret to the entire film.



I know, you will rant and rail and squirm, but all you have to do is watch it ONE TIME again with an open mind, and watch that last scene closely and it explains ALL of Tom's actions and strange "unexplained" dialogue - as well as his strange choices.



I can go into it in detail, and have with several people, but once I tell people this, then get them to watch it again one time through, holding this in mind.  It's the only interpretation in which all the loose pieces fall into place, and really brings the heart-wrenching final scene into gut wrenching focus.



It's a darn LOVE STORY!

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#47

I don't really agree with this interpretation at all, but holy shit how great is Miller's Crossing?

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#48
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phillip Taylor View Post
 



The ENTIRE FILM IS ABOUT TOM COMING TO TERMS WITH THE FACT THAT HE IS GAY AND IS IN LOVE WITH LEO.



No, I would say it is more about friendship.  Tom is viewed as playing the angles to turn everything to his advantage, but in reality, everything he is doing in the movie is, ultimately, to help Leo...his stubborn friend, blinded by love.

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#49
(06-22-2016, 11:24 AM)phillip taylor Wrote: The ENTIRE FILM IS ABOUT TOM COMING TO TERMS WITH THE FACT THAT HE IS GAY AND IS IN LOVE WITH LEO

I agree the movie is about understanding Tom's love for Leo.  Whether or not you view the love as paternal, or romantic, or some kind of cross between the two, is up to the viewer.  But this is a movie where the first time or two you watch it, you get caught up in the world, how quotable it is, etc. Then you start to make sense of turns of the plot.  And finally you come to understand the seemingly enigmatic Tom.  It's a wonderful journey to make sense of the guy.

It's not just that he is loyal to Leo.  He loves him.  (It's devotional in a way that ties in with the loosely religious themes the Coens occasionally like to sprinkle in their movies.) And he has to get his hands dirty to save him, because that's just the world they live in.  And it sours him on the relationship.  He doesn't blame Leo.  He blames himself.  That's what makes Tom different from everybody else in the movie.  He may punish others, but he's going to punish himself more.  He sleeps with Verna, and he's miserable, because he knows how it would hurt Leo.  He gets into debt, and he refuses to take an easy out, because it's his.  As Verna says, he always takes the long way around.

For me the hat metaphor, like the cat metaphor from Inside Llewyn Davis, is not really a mystery.  It's right there.  The cat is Llewyn.  The hat is Tom.  In both cases, you have to take care of yourself.  To treat yourself (and by extension, those around you) better.  But these guys are hard cases, and hardest on themselves of all.  And that's what makes them so human, and so relatable.
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#50
MILLER'S CROSSING is a big damn masterpiece.  I quote it often at work.  (Our boss is sort of a Leo.) I love that the more you watch it, the better Johnny Caspar (Joe Polito) seems.  The guy just wants justice after being ripped off by the admittedly guilty Bernie, Leo denies it of him, then everything goes all to hell.  Caspar even offers his underlings tips on getting a good shave.  Not such a bad fella, really.  A little loud on occasion, but a decent mobster as mobsters go.  

So quotable, too.
"I'll straighten myself out with Lazar. That's why God invented cards."
"C'mon, Tom.  You know I don't like t'think."  'Yeah, well think about whether you should start."
"It's a mental state."
"Nice fella... If looks, brains and personality don't count."  "You'd better hope they don't."
"Does he wanna pillow for his head?"
"Well, if I was a horse I'd be down on my fetlocks prayin' you don't bet on me."
"Shaddup.  Or maybe you've still got too many teeth."
"So take yer flunkie an' dangle."
"Look into your heeeaaart!"
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#51
Miller's Crossing is an all-timer for me. Carter Burwell's main theme is probably my favorite piece of film music ever.

EDIT: Shout-out to Bailey's terrific post above.





(03-20-2018, 09:00 PM)Mangy Wrote: Miller's Crossing is an all-timer for me. Carter Burwell's main theme is probably my favorite piece of film music ever.

EDIT: Shout-out to Bailey's terrific post above.



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#52
(03-20-2018, 08:19 PM)bailey Wrote: For me the hat metaphor, like the cat metaphor from Inside Llewyn Davis, is not really a mystery.  It's right there.  The cat is Llewyn.  The hat is Tom.  In both cases, you have to take care of yourself.  To treat yourself (and by extension, those around you) better.  But these guys are hard cases, and hardest on themselves of all.  And that's what makes them so human, and so relatable.

I always thought the hat was more of a representation of equilibrium.  In the sense that, when things go wrong and you are out of control you lose your hat, hence the quote "There's nothing more foolish than a man chasing his hat."  If you have your head on straight, all your affairs in order, your hat is firmly in place.  If you are facing a problem that is negatively affecting your life, you are no longer in control and you lose your hat and you are vulnerable, exposed.  Appearances(not just physically) matter in this world, so the last thing you want to do is give someone else the advantage by appearing weak.  

I don't think that the hat IS Tom (there are tons of people wearing hats in the movie), but it represents how balanced he is during the film.  Every man has his own "hat", so, I think it is something that can be applied to all characters, not just Tom.  For example, when the little kid finds the dead body, he takes off the guy's toupee, which is later referenced in the movie as being a disgrace to the man.  The hair piece is that character's "hat".

There are plenty of scenes when Tom is not wearing his hat, but it appears in times when he is facing a problem or a threat to his stability.  When he gets in trouble, his hat gets knocked off, when he is stable, as in the final shot of the movie, he is in control and balanced.
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#53
Hell yeah on the score, Mangy. That main theme is just gorgeously elegiac.

Some great analysis in this thread too. Also, shout-out to J.E. Freeman's the Dane, a hall-of-famer in great intimidating mob baddies.

"I am gonna send you to a deep, dark place, and I am gonna have fun doin' it."
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#54
(03-21-2018, 03:55 PM)RCA Wrote: I always thought the hat was more of a representation of equilibrium.  In the sense that, when things go wrong and you are out of control you lose your hat, hence the quote "There's nothing more foolish than a man chasing his hat."  If you have your head on straight, all your affairs in order, your hat is firmly in place.  If you are facing a problem that is negatively affecting your life, you are no longer in control and you lose your hat and you are vulnerable, exposed.  Appearances(not just physically) matter in this world, so the last thing you want to do is give someone else the advantage by appearing weak.  

I don't think that the hat IS Tom (there are tons of people wearing hats in the movie), but it represents how balanced he is during the film.  Every man has his own "hat", so, I think it is something that can be applied to all characters, not just Tom.  For example, when the little kid finds the dead body, he takes off the guy's toupee, which is later referenced in the movie as being a disgrace to the man.  The hair piece is that character's "hat".

There are plenty of scenes when Tom is not wearing his hat, but it appears in times when he is facing a problem or a threat to his stability.  When he gets in trouble, his hat gets knocked off, when he is stable, as in the final shot of the movie, he is in control and balanced.

I mean, I think we're basically saying the same thing.  Or aspects of it.  Yes, losing your hat (or your toupee), this aspect of your identity, is a sign of trouble in this world, an indication something has gone amiss.  I didn't mean hats in general represented Tom literally and specifically.  It just reminded me how many people were talking about the cat in Llewyn Davis, and how they turned it into a thing.  "What's with the cat?"  In both cases, the recurring image of losing that object tied directly into how the characters were treating themselves.  How the were their own worst enemies.
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#55
(03-21-2018, 05:09 PM)bailey Wrote: I mean, I think we're basically saying the same thing.  Or aspects of it. 

Probably. I've only seen ILD once(it's good), but I think in that film the cat is probably more specific to his character, where the hats are more representative of all the characters in MC. I wasn't really disagreeing with what you originally posted, more just trying to clarify its broader meaning in MC. All good. Smile
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#56
Well shit, I think I might just go and watch Miller's Crossing again tonight.

Might have some of the best writing in a Coen's Bros. Film.
 I think all Marvel films are okay. This is my design.

Except for Thor 2: the literal worst.
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