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MMA Thread (UFC, Pride, K-1, etc)
#36
You just jogged my memory, NZ. Back when I watched Pride on a more regular basis, I can remember them trying to pad reps/give special attention to a few fighters. Daijiro Matsui springs to mind. He was allowed to fight a good number of fights even though he's not very good; if he was a foreigner, I doubt they'd of kept him in Pride that long.

F.T.W. Kid
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#37
For some examples of Pride's refereeing style, and some brutal knockouts, here's a Google Video. (Warning for those at work or those averse to violent sport, don't click the link.)

You can definitely see some times where the refs really should have stopped the fight earlier and probably should have just flat out tackled one of the combatants to get him to stop. I vaguely remember a UFC fight from several years ago where the ref actually tackled one of the fighters to get him to stop and the fighter got up really pissed. I think he might have even gotten a bloody nose from it or something. But I'd still rather have that than some of the shit on display in the video.

With all that said, I do marginally prefer Pride to UFC if only because the higher level of talent follows the money to Japan so you can see some really great fights. But that could change with the growing popularity of the UFC thanks to Spike TV's exposure. And I have to say in a trade between knees and elbows, I prefer to see elbows. They're more exciting and dramatic in my opinion even if they can pre-maturely end a bout that could have gone on and been more exciting in the long run.
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#38
I guess it's not so much the knees and soccer kicks I mind so much in Pride, it's the fact that the refs don't seem to know when to step between two fighters. ccubed, you bring up a good point. Pride is better not because of the looser rules(they help)but because of the caliber of talent. I don't think that the UFC will ever be bigger than Pride. UFC is coming up and becoming more mainstream, but no way you see them filling the same size stadiums that Pride could fill.

F.T.W. Kid
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#39
I agree with you, Kid. And the major reason why is because Boxing in the US has a stranglehold on mainstream cambat sports and anything outside of that has so much subversive propaganda going against it that it's hard to grow in popularity. On the VERY rare occasion that a magazine like Sports Illustrated does a story on MMA, it's usually filled with incorrect information and years-old news reports or references.

Japan has never had a huge boxing scene and so MMA has more room to grow.

Another thing to consider is that this is pretty much the first generation to have anything like this in it's midst. Our parents didn't have MMA at all, neither did theirs, neither did theirs. This ties in with the proliferation of boxing. Maybe in another 10-15 years, things might be quite different. With a generation growing up with the sport having always been around, as well as having parents telling them about how they remember when the first UFC event was aired and the amount of controversy over it, etc etc . . .
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#40
I find it very doubtful that MMA will ever pass boxing in popularity in the US. It might pass it in respect and such, but popularity probably not. MMA fighters aren't gonna be able to command the sort of purses that top-tier boxers get and they'll always have overly stringent rules from State Commissions to deal with.
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#41
So Tito Ortiz has reconciled with the UFC and is coming back for UFC 59 to fight forrest griffin and is also one of the coaches along with ken shamrock for season 3 of the ultimate fighter.

Does anyone know what the falling out between ortiz and the UFC actually was? Why did he leave? Was he just getting his ass kicked by the liddells and coutures of the UFC?

And what is up with vitor belfor? Is he still fighting in the UFC?
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#42
Tito and Dana White hate each other from what I understand.

But Tito's contract ran up and he wanted a significant pay raise. He felt like he deserved some of the credit for the UFC's success because he was their poster boy for awhile. Dana and the UFC didn't want to pay him because he lost some recent fights and he seemed more interested in being a star than a fighter and because the UFC is pretty cheap when it comes to paying their fighters.

Dana went as far as to ban all Team Punishment gear from ringside, which is Tito's training camp. So I believe there is some bad blood between them. But the UFC and Dana White smartened up and realized that their is still money to be made from Ortiz. Whether its from him losing to Griffin or regaining some of his clout from his glory days and making another run at the Light Heavy Title.

The coaching gig is for ratings alone really. I think they are banking and hoping that Shamrock and Ortiz tear into each other. And from the looks of it, they are going to be fighting each other at the culmination to the season of the show.

As far as Vitor goes, I believe he just had a fight in the Pride MW Grand Prix.
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#43
I am relatively new to the UFC world, but have caught up quite abit.

Just curious what ppl in this thread think of Couture's chances against Liddel. I feel like Couture's age is starting to show after going back and seeing what kind of athelte he was earlier in his career. Liddel is pretty damn solid and puts together some vicious punch-kick combos when given an opening.

Anyway Thoughts?

I am actually looking forward to franklin vs. louiseau much more. Both those guys kick ass.
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#44
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fazer

I am relatively new to the UFC world, but have caught up quite abit.

Just curious what ppl in this thread think of Couture's chances against Liddel. I feel like Couture's age is starting to show after going back and seeing what kind of athelte he was earlier in his career. Liddel is pretty damn solid and puts together some vicious punch-kick combos when given an opening.

Anyway Thoughts?

I am actually looking forward to franklin vs. louiseau much more. Both those guys kick ass.

Welcome to the wonderful world of MMA, Fazer.

Yeah, I'm really looking forward to the Middleweight Title bout, too. It's going to end in a KO, and I honestly can't say who by . . . although my heart is with "Ace".

I think Randy has lost a bit of momentum solely due to his age and the fact that realistically, he doesn't have anything to prove by coming back and winning. He's beaten Liddell before (convincingly) . . . I think just because this is the rubber match, it really doesn't mean all that much to Randy in his heart of hearts. He's made a few comments here and there in interviews over the past year or so where, if you pay attention, he doesn't really sound as into it as someone who wants to be the champ should be. I dunno, maybe just the way I interpreted it . . .

Can't wait for the eventual Mir/Arlovski match. I love Mir, but Arlovski's going to kill him.

Wanna talk more but just got home from training and I'm fucked. Sorry.
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#45
I think it all depends on whether or not Chuck can defend the takedowns long enough to land one of his big, looping punches. The consensus on Chuck is that you can't take him down unless you hurt him or get him tired. Chuck's only two recent losses were to Rampage and Randy (His loss to Horn was based on inexperience on the ground). Rampage and Randy both landed lots of shots and tired Chuck out before they could take him down and keep him there for some ground-and-pound to end the fights. I don't know if Randy, at his current age, will be able to get the fight into third or fourth round without taking serious punishment. I see Chuck getting the knockout in the second.
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#46
I see Couture winning this fight and possibly retiring after. Cementing his legacy as maybe the best MMA fighter ever. I think he wins it in the 3rd round via some ferocious ground and pound. I really think this fight is going to be similar to the first one. I believe Randy was too over-confident in his stand up game in the rematch because of the success he had in the first fight. He's gonna look to take Chuck down repeatedly and eventually wear him out and then finish him on the ground.

As for Franklin and Louisea...I see Rich Franklin winning. I think "Ace" is going to reign over that division for a couple of years. And I see him going down as the dominant middleweight of this generation.
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#47
anyone know what the circumstances that lead to this were?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...q=royce+gracie

no gloves? in a dojo? why?
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#48
While I don't know the exact circumstances that led up to that fight, it's not uncommon to see those kinds of challenge matches. From what I understand, it happens in Brazil quite a bit.
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#49
Quote:

Originally Posted by HtP

anyone know what the circumstances that lead to this were?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...q=royce+gracie

no gloves? in a dojo? why?

That was a pre-UFC challenge match between Jason Delucia and a young Royce Gracie. I remember hearing that Delucia was a Kung Fu and Judo fighter who challenged the Gracies at their dojo in Torrance, CA. That is the video you linked to. Delucia bet Royce some amount of money that he could beat Royce. Royce fought him and toyed with him for 3 minutes before knocking him out on the ground.

After that, Delucia trained himself in submissions. He actually fought and won an alternate match at UFC 1 and a first round match at UFC 2 before Royce armbarred him pretty easily in the second round. There was still supposedly some bad blood between Delucia and the Gracies during that UFC 2 fight. Delucia went on to fight for long time in the Pancrase organization with Bas Rutten and the Shamrocks.
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#50
thanks for the info.
i understand that you've gotta have a particular mindset (including a reasonable amount of self confidence / ego) to be a fighter, but why risk this kinda full-contact stuff outside the ring? sparring is one thing (& necessary), but this just looks brutal & kinda pointless.
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#51
Quote:

Originally Posted by HtP

thanks for the info.
i understand that you've gotta have a particular mindset (including a reasonable amount of self confidence / ego) to be a fighter, but why risk this kinda full-contact stuff outside the ring? sparring is one thing (& necessary), but this just looks brutal & kinda pointless.

Well, back then there really was no organization in the US where you could put Kung v. Judo, Jiu-Jitsu v. Kickboxking, etc... There was a big debate about which martial art was the best (i.e., most effective in a "real" fight). A lot of tough guys and true believers in one fighting style or another wanted to prove that they (or their style) was the best. I guess it was that mentality that led to a lot of these challenge matches in dojos. That's what led directly to the creation of the UFC as a showcase for BJJ against every other martial art. Now you have a lot of organizations with rules and regulations put in place by athletic commissions to protect fighters. If you think you are really tough or that your style is the best, you have plenty of opportunities to fight in a controlled environment to prove it.
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#52
Anyone watching UFC 57 tomorrow night? Couture-Liddell 3 and the return of Frank Mir are good enough reasons for me. Also, Joe Riggs against Nick Diaz should be the fight of the night. I'll post some thoughts on the show after Saturday night.
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#53
does this rumor about Liddell hurting his ACL have any weight behind it?
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#54
Not sure about the Liddell injury, but I'm gearing up for the fights.
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#55
yeesh...that was a pretty disappointing PPV.

I was really digging couture's approach until that slip opened his chin up for the evntual barrage of liddel fists. The fight looked like it was going to be a classic up until that point.
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#56
Actually I was pleased with fights. A very good UFC I says.
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#57
Well it sucks that Randy is retiring. But I agree with his decision. He has nothing left to prove and it's nice to see an athlete not hang around too long. Especially in a combat sport.
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#58
I thought it was a pretty good PPV.

Liddell-Couture 3 wasn't a long fight, but it was solid. Chuck looked pretty active in creating his own angles for his punches, which seemed to be the big difference between this fight and the first one. Chuck definitely hurt Randy towards the end of the first and was getting up a good deal of confidence. If Randy hadn't slipped, the fight probably would have gone another round or two, but the result would probably have been the same. Chuck's takedown defense in the first where he easily got up from Randy's takedown meant that Randy was going to have to stand and bang with Chuck for awhile. Chuck was bound to land that big right sooner or later.

Randy's retirement is probably for the best. He could stay and fight a few more times, but who would he fight? He won't be challenging for the belt again as long as Chuck has it. All he could really do is play spoiler now to Forrest, Bonnar, Tito, Babalu, Sakara, or any of the other 205 guys coming for the belt. I never found Randy to be all that exciting of a fighter, but I respect who he is and what he's done for the sport.

Babalu is next line for a shot at Chuck after easily submitting Mike Van Arsdale with a rear naked choke in the first round. His fight against Chuck should be pretty exciting contrast in styles.

Brandon Vera knocked out Justin Eilers with a great left high kick, Crocop style, causing Eilers to flop forward on the mat. On the way down, Vera landed a flying knee, followed by a punch to put Eilers out. Vera is now 6-0, has two great UFC knockouts to his name, and a great personality as he had Joe Rogan and the crowd laughing after the fight. Vera could be a big star and a legit challenger to either Liddell or Arlovski if they bring him along the right way. Like the UFC announcers said last night, Vera is kind of like a heavyweight George St. Pierre. On a side note, no one is the UFC gets knocked out like Justin Eilers. His staggering flops against Buentello, Arlovski, and now Vera are good enough that you would swear he studied at the feet of Ric Flair. I hope we see this guy back in the UFC before too long.

In the only televised fight to go the distance, Joe Riggs won a unanimous decision over a very aggressive Nick Diaz. Diaz pushed the action the whole fight and even landed a shot that put Riggs down on one knee. But Riggs landed more shots and did a lot more damage. That was the difference as everyone but Joe Rogan thought Riggs won the fight. Riggs did look gassed most of the fight, probably because he cut 30+ lbs before the weigh-in on Friday. Over the next 24 hours before the fight, he went from a weight-in weight of 169.5 to 202. The man is crazy.

Jeff Monson looks like he will be challenging for the heavyweight belt in the future as he dominated and choked out Brandon Lee Hinkle. Althought I don't know how fair it was to put an Abu Dhabi Heavyweight Submissions Champ against a wrestler from Hammer House, which is known for its terrible sub defense. I would have been shocked if this fight had gone any other way.

The biggest disappointment of the night was with Frank Mir. After winning the UFC Heavyweight title in 2004, he broke his femur in a motorcycle accident. In his first fight back, his left leg looked unstable as Cruz took him down. Cruz got dominant positioning and started raining down blows. Cruz opened up a nasty cut over Mir's left eye. Mir, despite not being able to see out of his left eye, decided to continue with the fight. He couldn't escape and ended up just eating shot after shot until the ref finally called it in the first. Mir looked like he just gave up. He looked scared and admitted after the fight that it was probably too early for him to return.
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#59
Pride has a PPV this weekend, but it doesn't look like one of their better cards. I probably won't be ordering this one. Only two decent fights on the whole card: Mark Coleman v. Shogun and Kharitonov v. Overeem. I will be all over the Open Weight Grand Prix in May, though.

UFC 58 is on March 4th. While Rich Franklin, the Crow, and Sanchez are all on the card, the only fight I really care about is BJ Penn v. George St. Pierre. BJ's a big wild card at this point. If he shows up in shape, GSP will probably be tapping. If BJ approaches GSP the same way he approached his last 3 or 4 fights (i.e., just cutting a lot of weight after 2 months of living on pizza and Ho-Hos), GSP will pound out a win. Either way, these guys will be agressive as hell.
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#60
Franklin over Louseiu
Penn over GSP
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#61
Franklin dominated Louiseu
St. Pierre wins a close decision over B.J. Penn
Swick with a quick win via guiltione I believe
Hominick with an upset over Edwards

And the US won 5-3 I believe.

Franklin apparantley broke his hand in the 2nd round on his way to the unanimous decision.
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#62
I am so pissed I missed the show. I had family in town Saturday night. I will probably order the replay this weekend. A friend called me at the end of the first round of GSP-Penn to tell me about the first round that Penn dominated. I thought Penn was going to finish GSP off in the second. Sounds like GSP has got some guts and definitely proved he is world class by getting the win. I heard that Penn wasn't very aggressive in the second and third after a dominating first. I wonder if came into the fight with the conditioning needed to go three rounds with GSP.

What's next for Penn? A title shot against Hughes? Seems like GSP is in line after the Hughes-Gracie fight. Moving up to 185 to fight Franklin a little early? Franklin is on the shelf for a few months with a broken hand and foot. Penn-Diego? I don't really see that fight doing much for Penn, but what other high-profile fights can the UFC give him at 170 right now?
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#63
Hey guys i love Pride and saw unbreakable. It wasn't worth 30 bucks..but then again i didnt pay for it..

highlights were the mark hunt vs Nishijima fight in which Nishijima showed a lotta heart with the beating he took... and the Mark Coleman afterfight interview..Coleman basically cursed off Silva and Ninja for sucker punching him after the Shogun injury...

the overeem vs Kharitonov was a disappointment as Kharitonov said he hurt his shoulder when overeem took him down..after that overeem just kicked the shit outta him on the ground..
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#64
Time to revive this thread as we've got an Ultimate Fight Night coming up on Spike TV on April 6. The full fight card is listed here.

If you are/were a fan of The Ultimate Fighter, this card looks pretty good. Otherwise, well, I wouldn't be watching if it weren't free. Bonnar-Jardine is the headlining fight. As usual, I will be looking to see how Josh Burkman does, if they even bother to put his fight on the main card. I also want to see Rashad Evans who will be fighting at 205. I don't really see any "fight of the night" candidates this time around. But, Pride: Unbreakable looked lackluster on paper and turned out to be a pretty exciting show.
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#65
I'm bummed. I'm in Vegas right now, and getting ready to fly out, and this card is next weekend. Dammit.

And didn't Cummo and Von Flue already fight during the UF series?

I want to see Olaf! Where is he? Bring him to me! I've been watching Extreme Cagefighting on HDNet, and I've seen this guy twice. He had a great fight with a new guy that went the distance, and he got knocked the fuck out in another fight. And it was vicious. He hit the mat after a right hand that knocked his mouthpiece into the stands. Then he still seemed concious, and the guy jumped on top of him, and with the first punch, Olaf's head bounced off the mat floor and he was out. The ref reacted too slowly and Olaf got two more nasty shots in the head before the ref leaped in and stopped it. They had to carry Olaf out on a stretcher.
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#66
This guy? They might bring him in to give Hominick, Florian, or there other up-and-coming lightweights an exciting knockout win. The guy's got great hair, though.

IIRC, Cummo and Von Flue didn't fight during TUF 2. Cummo beat Morgan and Stevenson beat Von Flue in the semis.
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#67
Yeah, that's Olaf. That dude is out of his mind. His hair and beard are even longer now. Half the time, he keeps pushing his hair out of his face during the fight. His nose starts on one side of his face and ends on the other side.

Also, in one of their (Extreme Cagefighting) "Bloodiest Battles", Imes was one of the guys fighting. He and his opponent were friggin' red from head to toe at the end of the match. Imes won, though.
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#68
Didn't really think this deserved it's own thread and I'm curious to see if anyone else has heard of this guy as I think he got someone named Sean Gannon a contract with the UFC. The guy I'm talking about is Kimbo. My friend just introduced me to him. If you don't know who he is, I guess about, maybe 2 years ago, some video surfaced of him beating up a guy in a backyard and really fucking up his eye. Nasty stuff. Anyway, I guessed he gained a following who were touting him as one bad motherfucker. Sean Gannon, cop/amateur MMA fighter, challenged him to a fight and beat him at his game. Kimbo had another squash match after that, but I don't think he's got much else going on. Reason I mention all this, is because apparently, Gannon got noticed by the UFC due to his fight with Kimbo. The article I got some of this info from was from sometime last year. Has anyone heard of this Gannon guy? I don't recall him. And does anyone know more about Kimbo? Is he fighting? Also feel free to offer up your opinions on this sort of thing. If it's true that Gannon got a shot at legitimate MMA competition because of this, I think it's a shame. There are plenty of MMA fighters who should get a spot and who are trying to earn it the hard way, by slogging it out in sanctioned matches against legitimately trained contenders. And if you're interested in seeing Kimbo in all of his fighting glory, go here:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Pu3rBMJkc...fight%20fights

http://www.youtube.com/w/KIMBO-SLICE...p...=t&f=b

http://video.freevideoblog.com/video...26E548ED01.htm
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#69
Wikipedia to the rescue.

There's some illuminating information on that page, but yeah, otherwise there isn't a whole lot of out there about Kimbo or Gannon. All I know is that Kimbo's an enourmously huge guy who's a pretty talented bare-knuckles boxer, with limited at best ground/grappling skills. Sean "The Cannon" Gannon is supposed to be an amateur MMA fighter, with a much more rounded skill set. No idea how he'd fare against someone with grappling skills. He sure is tough, though. Taking the full brunt of Kimbo to the face and then outlasting him is pretty damned impressive.

Edit: After looking through youtube, I've noticed that Kimbo is quite the celebrity as many have made "parodies" of his fights including a not so great one by the normally pretty great Mega 64.
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#70
I learned from a Hubba Bubba ad in a comic book that holding your arms with your elbows slightly bent is called holding your arms "akimbo".
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