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The Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel Appreciation Thread
(01-13-2021, 06:24 PM)schwartz Wrote: The trouble with recasting a teen series is that unknowns really are the best way to go.  Otherwise you get locked into the idiotic Hollywood thing of casting 28 years olds as high school sophomores across the board.

Moner is a teenager and Rice is 20, I think.

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And I don't know know who either is, because they haven't had enough time to build up a career that has penetrated my old fogey radar. And once they do, they'll be getting kicked off their parents' health insurance.
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Isn't the simplest route to go new slayer/new high school/ new Hellmouth?

And if anyone cares, just conveniently forget the whole worldwide slayer activation thing. Or, shocking revelation in the penultimate episode: all the slayers died on the way back to their home planet. But really, who cares.
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(01-13-2021, 07:14 PM)kyle reese 2 Wrote: Isn't the simplest route to go new slayer/new high school/ new Hellmouth?

And if anyone cares, just conveniently forget the whole worldwide slayer activation thing. Or, shocking revelation in the penultimate episode: all the slayers died on the way back to their home planet. But really, who cares.
You mess with the continuity like that and the show is doomed from the start. As long as they forget the comics exist I'm fine.

This show isn't coming back. Now if they want to do a Fray limited series I'm down
AIt's just tits and dragons. - Ian McShane on Game of Thones
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When Season 5 aired I was 12, and it was that strange, pre 9/11 era where TV shows were broadcast in 4:3, DVDs were new, the internet wasn't the ubiquitous centre of life it is now, and sometimes a trailer airing before 'Jurassic Park III' was how you learned a The Lord of the Rings adaptation was being made.

Anyway, in the UK we still got US shows months after you guys, and you gleamed info. about nerd stuff from adverts and TV listings. So when 'The Gift' aired, young me figured that was it for Buffy - everything was resolved, she was dead, and she'd beaten a god. The episode starts with that rockin' rush through all the past episodes and with her slaying a vampire, and, for all the characters, it functions as a pretty definitive, satisfying conclusion to the entire thing.

I've always been fascinated by how serialised fiction gets written, and I can't think of another example of a season finale *that* definitive and conclusive that was followed, on schedule, by a new season. I know earlier finales were written to be satisfying season and show-enders, but Whedon always layered in a few hints at pretty fleshed out plans he had for the next year, or two years down the line - the Mayor is referred to a few times in the latter half of Season 2, Faith announces Dawn's arrival in the Season 3 finale, Tara talks about the first slayer and Dawn in Season 4.

Does anyone know what the story is with the Season 5/Season 6 break? Was 'The Gift' written as the end, before Whedon decided 'fuck it, they want more'? Or was Buffy's death and resurrection always the plan? My understanding is that he became a lot less hands on from then on too, as if he'd intended to finish it and his heart wasn't quite in it after that.

I loved the first 5 seasons, but only watched 6 and 7 a good four or five years later. I remember thinking they were good, but definitely struggling to find a reason for existing in a way that the first five seasons hadn't.
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(01-13-2021, 07:05 PM)schwartz Wrote: And I don't know know who either is, because they haven't had enough time to build up a career that has penetrated my old fogey radar.  And once they do, they'll be getting kicked off their parents' health insurance.

Isabela Moner played Dora in the recent [underrated] Dora the Explorer movie.  Angourie Rice was in a Black Mirror episode and played fat Parker friend's love interest in Far From Home.

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We knew Buffy was coming back before the finale aired. Joss really never left cliffhanger season enders so it could have been a series finale if he wanted
AIt's just tits and dragons. - Ian McShane on Game of Thones
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(01-13-2021, 07:34 PM)rexbanner Wrote: When Season 5 aired I was 12, and it was that strange, pre 9/11 era where TV shows were broadcast in 4:3, DVDs were new, the internet wasn't the ubiquitous centre of life it is now, and sometimes a trailer airing before 'Jurassic Park III' was how you learned a The Lord of the Rings adaptation was being made.

Anyway, in the UK we still got US shows months after you guys, and you gleamed info. about nerd stuff from adverts and TV listings. So when 'The Gift' aired, young me figured that was it for Buffy - everything was resolved, she was dead, and she'd beaten a god. The episode starts with that rockin' rush through all the past episodes and with her slaying a vampire, and, for all the characters, it functions as a pretty definitive, satisfying conclusion to the entire thing.

I've always been fascinated by how serialised fiction gets written, and I can't think of another example of a season finale *that* definitive and conclusive that was followed, on schedule, by a new season. I know earlier finales were written to be satisfying season and show-enders, but Whedon always layered in a few hints at pretty fleshed out plans he had for the next year, or two years down the line - the Mayor is referred to a few times in the latter half of Season 2, Faith announces Dawn's arrival in the Season 3 finale, Tara talks about the first slayer and Dawn in Season 4.

Does anyone know what the story is with the Season 5/Season 6 break? Was 'The Gift' written as the end, before Whedon decided 'fuck it, they want more'? Or was Buffy's death and resurrection always the plan? My understanding is that he became a lot less hands on from then on too, as if he'd intended to finish it and his heart wasn't quite in it after that.

I loved the first 5 seasons, but only watched 6 and 7 a good four or five years later. I remember thinking they were good, but definitely struggling to find a reason for existing in a way that the first five seasons hadn't.

When Season 5 aired I was 12, and it was that strange, pre 9/11 era where TV shows were broadcast in 4:3, DVDs were new, the internet wasn't the ubiquitous centre of life it is now, and sometimes a trailer airing before 'Jurassic Park III' was how you learned a The Lord of the Rings adaptation was being made.

Anyway, in the UK we still got US shows months after you guys, and you gleamed info. about nerd stuff from adverts and TV listings. So when 'The Gift' aired, young me figured that was it for Buffy - everything was resolved, she was dead, and she'd beaten a god. The episode starts with that rockin' rush through all the past episodes and with her slaying a vampire, and, for all the characters, it functions as a pretty definitive, satisfying conclusion to the entire thing.

I've always been fascinated by how serialised fiction gets written, and I can't think of another example of a season finale *that* definitive and conclusive that was followed, on schedule, by a new season. I know earlier finales were written to be satisfying season and show-enders, but Whedon always layered in a few hints at pretty fleshed out plans he had for the next year, or two years down the line - the Mayor is referred to a few times in the latter half of Season 2, Faith announces Dawn's arrival in the Season 3 finale, Tara talks about the first slayer and Dawn in Season 4.

Does anyone know what the story is with the Season 5/Season 6 break? Was 'The Gift' written as the end, before Whedon decided 'fuck it, they want more'? Or was Buffy's death and resurrection always the plan? My understanding is that he became a lot less hands on from then on too, as if he'd intended to finish it and his heart wasn't quite in it after that.

I loved the first 5 seasons, but only watched 6 and 7 a good four or five years later. I remember thinking they were good, but definitely struggling to find a reason for existing in a way that the first five seasons hadn't.

There was never a point where I thought season five felt like a finale for the show ... so I guess just different interpretations?  

I have always loved season seven. I think it's probably the most underrated season. Season six, while it feels a bit grimdark on this rewatch and was always kind of meandering, has some fantastic episodes.

I simply think the kind of stories that needed to be told to actually advance the characters and the world had grown beyond the confines of an hour weekly television show by season six.  They were grown up, the stakes had to get bigger, and we'd seen the characters evolve and reach new depths to such an extent that it felt like every main deserved their own spin-off.  These are good problems to have, but they are problems.

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Season 5 was the final season to air on The WB (now the CW) netlet. Seasons 6 and 7 aired on UPN. I don't have all the history at my fingertips but I imagine there were moments when it was fully expected that the show would end on 5.
"I'd rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth."--Steve McQueen
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That's my understanding. The WB was not renewing the show, but was negotiating with UPN to have the show jump networks during the production period of S5. Which involved more uncertainty than the standard "will we get picked up again or not" stuff that most shows on the bubble go through regularly, and resulted in writing toward a more definitive ending than it might have otherwise gotten.
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I don't think there was any way it wasn't renewed. I don't remember that. It was a top rated WB show and UPN bid a lot for it.
AIt's just tits and dragons. - Ian McShane on Game of Thones
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It was always getting renewed. The issue with the network swap is that UPN was offering a significantly higher budget (2.33 million versus 1.8ish, if old newspaper accounts are correct).

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(01-13-2021, 07:57 PM)Overlord Wrote:
(01-13-2021, 07:34 PM)rexbanner Wrote: When Season 5 aired I was 12, and it was that strange, pre 9/11 era where TV shows were broadcast in 4:3, DVDs were new, the internet wasn't the ubiquitous centre of life it is now, and sometimes a trailer airing before 'Jurassic Park III' was how you learned a The Lord of the Rings adaptation was being made.

Anyway, in the UK we still got US shows months after you guys, and you gleamed info. about nerd stuff from adverts and TV listings. So when 'The Gift' aired, young me figured that was it for Buffy - everything was resolved, she was dead, and she'd beaten a god. The episode starts with that rockin' rush through all the past episodes and with her slaying a vampire, and, for all the characters, it functions as a pretty definitive, satisfying conclusion to the entire thing.

I've always been fascinated by how serialised fiction gets written, and I can't think of another example of a season finale *that* definitive and conclusive that was followed, on schedule, by a new season. I know earlier finales were written to be satisfying season and show-enders, but Whedon always layered in a few hints at pretty fleshed out plans he had for the next year, or two years down the line - the Mayor is referred to a few times in the latter half of Season 2, Faith announces Dawn's arrival in the Season 3 finale, Tara talks about the first slayer and Dawn in Season 4.

Does anyone know what the story is with the Season 5/Season 6 break? Was 'The Gift' written as the end, before Whedon decided 'fuck it, they want more'? Or was Buffy's death and resurrection always the plan? My understanding is that he became a lot less hands on from then on too, as if he'd intended to finish it and his heart wasn't quite in it after that.

I loved the first 5 seasons, but only watched 6 and 7 a good four or five years later. I remember thinking they were good, but definitely struggling to find a reason for existing in a way that the first five seasons hadn't.

When Season 5 aired I was 12, and it was that strange, pre 9/11 era where TV shows were broadcast in 4:3, DVDs were new, the internet wasn't the ubiquitous centre of life it is now, and sometimes a trailer airing before 'Jurassic Park III' was how you learned a The Lord of the Rings adaptation was being made.

Anyway, in the UK we still got US shows months after you guys, and you gleamed info. about nerd stuff from adverts and TV listings. So when 'The Gift' aired, young me figured that was it for Buffy - everything was resolved, she was dead, and she'd beaten a god. The episode starts with that rockin' rush through all the past episodes and with her slaying a vampire, and, for all the characters, it functions as a pretty definitive, satisfying conclusion to the entire thing.

I've always been fascinated by how serialised fiction gets written, and I can't think of another example of a season finale *that* definitive and conclusive that was followed, on schedule, by a new season. I know earlier finales were written to be satisfying season and show-enders, but Whedon always layered in a few hints at pretty fleshed out plans he had for the next year, or two years down the line - the Mayor is referred to a few times in the latter half of Season 2, Faith announces Dawn's arrival in the Season 3 finale, Tara talks about the first slayer and Dawn in Season 4.

Does anyone know what the story is with the Season 5/Season 6 break? Was 'The Gift' written as the end, before Whedon decided 'fuck it, they want more'? Or was Buffy's death and resurrection always the plan? My understanding is that he became a lot less hands on from then on too, as if he'd intended to finish it and his heart wasn't quite in it after that.

I loved the first 5 seasons, but only watched 6 and 7 a good four or five years later. I remember thinking they were good, but definitely struggling to find a reason for existing in a way that the first five seasons hadn't.

There was never a point where I thought season five felt like a finale for the show ... so I guess just different interpretations?  

I have always loved season seven. I think it's probably the most underrated season. Season six, while it feels a bit grimdark on this rewatch and was always kind of meandering, has some fantastic episodes.

I simply think the kind of stories that needed to be told to actually advance the characters and the world had grown beyond the confines of an hour weekly television show by season six.  They were grown up, the stakes had to get bigger, and we'd seen the characters evolve and reach new depths to such an extent that it felt like every main deserved their own spin-off.  These are good problems to have, but they are problems.

And yet not a single spin off. What about Ripper? The Faith spin off? Spike? You gave so many interviews Joss!
“I call upon you to stop this musical now,” she said to the board. “You tear a community apart if you don’t.” -Prachi Ruina                                                            
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There was ANGEL.
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There were supposed to be spinoffs to to mend my breaking heart but they NEVER HAPPENED! I think there was even Ripper talk like 6 years ago. Whedon lies!!!! Borg was correct!
“I call upon you to stop this musical now,” she said to the board. “You tear a community apart if you don’t.” -Prachi Ruina                                                            
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It's been nearly two decades with nary a hint of ancillary film or television content. For a really well known IP, in the era of IP exploitation, this is somewhat strange.

I wonder if maybe there is a rights problem. Someone wants too much money/control or maybe the various rights owner disagree on what to do next (or whether to do anything at all).

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I wouldn't be surprised if Kuzui and Sandollar still get a cut after all these years.
"I'd rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth."--Steve McQueen
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(01-14-2021, 08:11 PM)hammerhead Wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if Kuzui and Sandollar still get a cut after all these years.


Maybe the Kuzuis are the stumbling blocks.  Didn't a few people gripe about the "big checks" they received from Angel despite contributing zero to the series.

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(01-13-2021, 07:57 PM)Overlord Wrote:
(01-13-2021, 07:34 PM)rexbanner Wrote: When Season 5 aired I was 12, and it was that strange, pre 9/11 era where TV shows were broadcast in 4:3, DVDs were new, the internet wasn't the ubiquitous centre of life it is now, and sometimes a trailer airing before 'Jurassic Park III' was how you learned a The Lord of the Rings adaptation was being made.

Anyway, in the UK we still got US shows months after you guys, and you gleamed info. about nerd stuff from adverts and TV listings. So when 'The Gift' aired, young me figured that was it for Buffy - everything was resolved, she was dead, and she'd beaten a god. The episode starts with that rockin' rush through all the past episodes and with her slaying a vampire, and, for all the characters, it functions as a pretty definitive, satisfying conclusion to the entire thing.

I've always been fascinated by how serialised fiction gets written, and I can't think of another example of a season finale *that* definitive and conclusive that was followed, on schedule, by a new season. I know earlier finales were written to be satisfying season and show-enders, but Whedon always layered in a few hints at pretty fleshed out plans he had for the next year, or two years down the line - the Mayor is referred to a few times in the latter half of Season 2, Faith announces Dawn's arrival in the Season 3 finale, Tara talks about the first slayer and Dawn in Season 4.

Does anyone know what the story is with the Season 5/Season 6 break? Was 'The Gift' written as the end, before Whedon decided 'fuck it, they want more'? Or was Buffy's death and resurrection always the plan? My understanding is that he became a lot less hands on from then on too, as if he'd intended to finish it and his heart wasn't quite in it after that.

I loved the first 5 seasons, but only watched 6 and 7 a good four or five years later. I remember thinking they were good, but definitely struggling to find a reason for existing in a way that the first five seasons hadn't.

When Season 5 aired I was 12, and it was that strange, pre 9/11 era where TV shows were broadcast in 4:3, DVDs were new, the internet wasn't the ubiquitous centre of life it is now, and sometimes a trailer airing before 'Jurassic Park III' was how you learned a The Lord of the Rings adaptation was being made.

Anyway, in the UK we still got US shows months after you guys, and you gleamed info. about nerd stuff from adverts and TV listings. So when 'The Gift' aired, young me figured that was it for Buffy - everything was resolved, she was dead, and she'd beaten a god. The episode starts with that rockin' rush through all the past episodes and with her slaying a vampire, and, for all the characters, it functions as a pretty definitive, satisfying conclusion to the entire thing.

I've always been fascinated by how serialised fiction gets written, and I can't think of another example of a season finale *that* definitive and conclusive that was followed, on schedule, by a new season. I know earlier finales were written to be satisfying season and show-enders, but Whedon always layered in a few hints at pretty fleshed out plans he had for the next year, or two years down the line - the Mayor is referred to a few times in the latter half of Season 2, Faith announces Dawn's arrival in the Season 3 finale, Tara talks about the first slayer and Dawn in Season 4.

Does anyone know what the story is with the Season 5/Season 6 break? Was 'The Gift' written as the end, before Whedon decided 'fuck it, they want more'? Or was Buffy's death and resurrection always the plan? My understanding is that he became a lot less hands on from then on too, as if he'd intended to finish it and his heart wasn't quite in it after that.

I loved the first 5 seasons, but only watched 6 and 7 a good four or five years later. I remember thinking they were good, but definitely struggling to find a reason for existing in a way that the first five seasons hadn't.

There was never a point where I thought season five felt like a finale for the show ... so I guess just different interpretations?  

I have always loved season seven.  I think it's probably the most underrated season.  Season six, while it feels a bit grimdark on this rewatch and was always kind of meandering, has some fantastic episodes.

I simply think the kind of stories that needed to be told to actually advance the characters and the world had grown beyond the confines of an hour weekly television show by season six.  They were grown up, the stakes had to get bigger, and we'd seen the characters evolve and reach new depths to such an extent that it felt like every main deserved their own spin-off.  These are good problems to have, but they are problems.

   While season 6 could have lighten up on making everybody's life Hell, the finale does justify it. They went though the worst time of their lives but they did get thought it.* Xander telling Willow he will always love her is when of my favorite moments on the show.

*Of course that doesn't include Tara.
*
I've got good news and I've got bad news. The bad news is I've lost my way. The good news is I'm way ahead of schedule!
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As the years go by Tara's death looms ever larger as perhaps the most tragic in modern television history.

My son recently commented that she's "like, the only really good person left on this show. She is so nice." His heart is gonna get broken.

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As an adult I was heartbroken when Warren killed her. Speaking of tragic deaths in the Buffyverse, I think Fred's is the most heartbreaking. She suffers for an entire episode.
I've got good news and I've got bad news. The bad news is I've lost my way. The good news is I'm way ahead of schedule!
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(01-14-2021, 10:31 PM)Chaz Rock City Wrote: As an adult I was heartbroken when Warren killed her. Speaking of tragic deaths in the Buffyverse, I think Fred's is the most heartbreaking. She suffers for an entire episode.

I honestly don't feel that Fred was "entirely" dead.

Even when I watched Angel the first time I was 100% sure they were building to an arc where Illyria had absorbed some, or all, of Fred's soul/essence and we'd eventually see a transition to a merged state (or, perhaps, that Fred would at some point be separated back out).  The "soul consumed in the fires of blah blah blah" always seemed like a fake-out so we could be surprised later.

But Whedon managed to piss off someone's ego over at WB and Angel, instead of getting the 2-3 more seasons that it deserved, was summarily cancelled and they had to abandon entire arcs.

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What happened with Angel is that Whedon asked for an early renewal and for some reason that pissed off the WB and they cancelled the show. Which was bullshit because that show needed at least one more season.
I've got good news and I've got bad news. The bad news is I've lost my way. The good news is I'm way ahead of schedule!
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(01-14-2021, 11:09 PM)Chaz Rock City Wrote: What happened with Angel is that Whedon asked for an early renewal and for some reason that pissed off the WB and the cancelled the show. Which was bullshit because that show needed at least one more season.

Yes, that is the event I am referencing.

It was specifically Jordan Levin, I believe.  Whedon tried to obtain an early renewal and within a day or so Levin decided to just cancel Angel.

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(01-14-2021, 03:47 PM)Overlord Wrote: It's been nearly two decades with nary a hint of ancillary film or television content. For a really well known IP, in the era of IP exploitation, this is somewhat strange.

I wonder if maybe there is a rights problem. Someone wants too much money/control or maybe the various rights owner disagree on what to do next (or whether to do anything at all).
There was supposed to be a movie like 6-10 years ago. Time is weird for me now. Anyway they wanted to do it without Joss but nothing ever happened with it.

(01-14-2021, 10:56 PM)Overlord Wrote:
(01-14-2021, 10:31 PM)Chaz Rock City Wrote: As an adult I was heartbroken when Warren killed her. Speaking of tragic deaths in the Buffyverse, I think Fred's is the most heartbreaking. She suffers for an entire episode.

I honestly don't feel that Fred was "entirely" dead.

Even when I watched Angel the first time I was 100% sure they were building to an arc where Illyria had absorbed some, or all, of Fred's soul/essence and we'd eventually see a transition to a merged state (or, perhaps, that Fred would at some point be separated back out).  The "soul consumed in the fires of blah blah blah" always seemed like a fake-out so we could be surprised later.

I read somewhere a million years ago that the plan was that Fred was going to start to come back and that Wesley was going to have to make a choice which one to save. Which is hilarious because of course it would be Fred. But I guess the idea was that he had grown to care about the demon god thing. Maybe it would have ended with Illyria sacrificing herself having taken some humanity in for her stay on earth.
“I call upon you to stop this musical now,” she said to the board. “You tear a community apart if you don’t.” -Prachi Ruina                                                            
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That's exactly what I thought was going to happen with Not-Locke in Lost season 6. Having Locke's soul pop back in for an emotional moment with Jack in the finale would've been a slam dunk.
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(01-15-2021, 12:08 AM)waaaaaaaalt Wrote: I read somewhere a million years ago that the plan was that Fred was going to start to come back and that Wesley was going to have to make a choice which one to save. Which is hilarious because of course it would be Fred. But I guess the idea was that he had grown to care about the demon god thing. Maybe it would have ended with Illyria sacrificing herself having taken some humanity in for her stay on earth.

I imagine it would have been tied to some sort of plot thing, where the choice between Fred and Illyria was complicated by Illyria being needed to combat some apocalyptic threat. 

Anyway, ANGEL got its perfect ending just like BUFFY did in S5.  Could we have done 2-3 more seasons?  Sure, but there's every chance they would generally be considered lesser and not strictly necessary, a la B6-7.
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(01-15-2021, 12:20 AM)kyle reese 2 Wrote: That's exactly what I thought was going to happen with Not-Locke in Lost season 6. Having Locke's soul pop back in for an emotional moment with Jack in the finale would've been a slam dunk.

I thought they were going to do this, but I feel the mechanics of it (MiB wasn't in Locke's body: he had taken Locke's form, and was stuck that way, while Locke was buried) would've been weird. 

There're large swathes of the (pretty middling) Season 6 I've forgotten, but I remember thinking it was cool that Not-Locke yelled 'Don't tell me what I can't do!' because he was feeling frustrated and pissed off, not because Locke's soul was leaking into him or something. 

This concludes my Lost chat in this (checks notes) Buffy conversation.

(01-12-2021, 03:21 PM)Overlord Wrote: I wonder if the single largest barrier to Buffy the Vampire Slayer having been a more mainstream hit amongst older "people" like MichaelM is the name of the show. 

I understand what Whedon was going for and why he did what he did, but the result is undeniable. Particularly considering that it is decidedly not a children's show, the "Buffy" title is just a gigantic psychological barrier. I'm old enough to not give a shit anymore, but when it was airing it would have been downright embarrassing to try to recommend "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" to my college bros. It's an intentionally silly-sounding and farcical name.
On an instinctive level, what would your reaction to advertising or recommendations of Breaking Bad have been if it was re-titled: The Misadventures of Mr. Wally White, Meth-Maker"?

The name of the show is one of those weird things (like Ewoks) where I was too young when I first encountered it to think it was weird or silly, but, thinking about it with weary, worldly, thirty year old eyes I can totally imagine that it would present a major barrier to older or 'too cool' audiences. 

Nowadays the network would insist Whedon call it something generic like 'Slayer' or 'Against the Dark'.

One aspect of it that was maybe lost outside the U.S. is Buffy's name. It's not a name that I'd ever heard in Scotland back when it premiered, edited to hell at 6:45 on BBC2 Wednesday nights, and to this day the only other Buffy I've ever heard of was the one in Scary Movie, which I figured was just a reference. Is it supposed to be a stereotypically ditzy or dumb name (which the premise then subverts)?
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Yeah, it's a rich white girl name typically.
“I call upon you to stop this musical now,” she said to the board. “You tear a community apart if you don’t.” -Prachi Ruina                                                            
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And a diminutive of "Elizabeth."
"I'd rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth."--Steve McQueen
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It is strange (good) that it's not been remade. I think that's partly a consequence of it being very popular without being a mega-franchise (suits will balk at the risk it presents), and the fact that it pulled off what it was trying to be pretty perfectly - you could only do that (difficult to pull off) premise with a different cast and suffer for the comparison.

I can't imagine that, at some point, it doesn't get a Doctor Who-style reboot/continuation, with a new slayer, watcher, and hellmouth-equivalent starting things off before the original cast start reappearing for for story arcs and season finales.

The only problem is that Season 7 was pretty conclusive in upsetting the status quo - no watchers, hundreds of slayers active, etc. It'd be difficult to walk that back in a way that's doesn't read as cynical and depressing.
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Schwartz, I completely disagree that the major story beats of season 7 felt superfluous. I think they were desperately needed.

Now, season six? Ehhh .... not nearly as much.

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I remember Entertainment Weekly had a few articles praising Buffy during the 3rd season. They were like "Ignore the silly name, it's actually really good." Then I started tuning in when Seadon 4 premiered.
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(01-15-2021, 08:23 PM)rexbanner Wrote: It is strange (good) that it's not been remade. I think that's partly a consequence of it being very popular without being a mega-franchise (suits will balk at the risk it presents), and the fact that it pulled off what it was trying to be pretty perfectly - you could only do that (difficult to pull off) premise with a different cast and suffer for the comparison.

I can't imagine that, at some point, it doesn't get a Doctor Who-style reboot/continuation, with a new slayer, watcher, and hellmouth-equivalent starting things off before the original cast start reappearing for for story arcs and season finales.

The only problem is that Season 7 was pretty conclusive in upsetting the status quo - no watchers, hundreds of slayers active, etc. It'd be difficult to walk that back in a way that's doesn't read as cynical and depressing.

Well that was supposed to happen like 2 years ago I think. Whedon was attached and they had a showrunner Monica Owusu-Breen who promised a new slayer and group of friends. It made it seem like a sequel of sorts.
“I call upon you to stop this musical now,” she said to the board. “You tear a community apart if you don’t.” -Prachi Ruina                                                            
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I'd be down for that, assuming it was actually great.
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