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Wrestling Discussion Thread (WWE, TNA, ECW, WCW, etc.)
#1
Now with 50% less Baba!
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#2
I actually think that Vince is playing quite a good heel at the moment. He's always been great at generating heat and having him as the uber heel, with lackies to do his bidding, really works.
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#3
Although I agree with that I think the DX feud had reached a point where he needs to pit another team against them rather than it being him and Shane.
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#4
Vince has always been an exceptional heel in terms of charisma, but his act has become completely self-serving. I'd have no problems with his large role on the shows if he were acting as the puppeteer, with his puppets booked as strong as he was. But when you look back over the past coupla months' worth of shows and realise that the only people to score significant points over DX were Vince and Shane, it's pretty ridiculous. How much would help Edge, for example, to be allowed to beat down Michaels and Hunter so completely? Think of the heel heat he'd get for Pedigreeing HHH. Instead Vince is booked as a viable in-ring heel, and put over more than any other bad guy on the Raw brand.

So yeah, get him an extended hiatus, and transfer some of that heat onto someone who can actually wrestle. That'd fix alot.
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#5
Quote:

Originally Posted by Murrow

Vince has always been an exceptional heel in terms of charisma, but...

Agreed. Completely.


Switching gears (I was putting this together as the first or second post, thus the quick editing...), according to TNA, tonight's show has the following:

- Highlights from the AJ & Daniels/LAX rematch.

- Sting may or may not agree to the Career vs. Title stipulation at Bound for Glory

- Christian Cage will cut a heel promo, and fans will remain confused as to what the Hell is going on with the Jarrett/Zbyzsko/Cornette/etc. angle. If TNA could just kill the "face rebels vs. heel establishment" bullshit that was played out even five years ago...

- The Naturals vs. The Paparazzi. Douglas should be doing color commentary, at least.

- Abyss will kill some jobber.


Any thoughts? Mine are mostly negative towards the main event clusterfuck.
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#6
Sting needs to leave TNA. I nearly choked laughing during his Hard Justice promo, his wide eyed shoutiness was just Hilarious.
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#7
*Highlights* of the Style&Daniels/LAX rematch? That sucks. Christian's interview could be interesting, though.
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#8
Vince's impact is greater when he pops up once every few months. It gives it a whole "oh shit the boss is here" feel. Otherwise you have a 60 year old playing the top heel and while Flair has the chops to be a legit wrestler at that age, Vince doesn't. Plus he was on tv 5 or 6 times last week. Its WAY too much.

TNA is a clusterfuck. Nothing good going on except some above average wrestling buttressed by absolutely nothing.
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#9
I really think the only way this DX feud would be justified is if it ended Vince and Shane's in-ring involvement (including promos and figurehead roles) forever. Then, just stick with one GM per brand, and have them show up to lay down the law once every few weeks or so, maybe more.
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#10
I agree, three GMs (Raw, SD!, ECW) and Vince as the boss who shows up to law down the law one way or another.
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#11
Nah. No more Vince, IMO. There's nowhere else for him to go.

Maybe he can return a few years down the road, as a complete surprise. With the right angle, that would be wonderful.
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#12
The problem is that none of the main heels really have Vince's charisma. They are just best as muscle, maybe having Divari set up a massive all encompassing stable of heels could solve the problem.
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#13
Double post
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#14
Vince does play a great character and adds alot when he's on in spurts. Once every 5-6 months, like they had Jack Tunney in the 80s. Or otherwise just refer to Vince but not show him. I don't know, Dario, you might be right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike Marshall

The problem is that none of the main heels really have Vince's charisma. They are just best as muscle, maybe having Divari set up a massive all encompassing stable of heels could solve the problem.

Actually with Davari and Estrrrrrrada, (eventhough they've cut down his mic time) the heel maangers are coming back. On MSG last night seeing Heenan and Jimy Hart interact with Monsoon and each other was great. Really put over a couple of blah matches.
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#15
They need a strong face GM for Raw, to just wash away the repetitive taste of it being ruled by a tyrannical authority figure for the past four years. I'd suggest bringing back Bisch as an enlightened tough-but-fair kinda boss, but I think that train has sailed.

Also, positioning Edge & Nitro as the "new" DX, challenging HHH & HBK and claiming to be far more degenerate than them, has money written all over it. Those two most definitely have enough charisma to play off of the top faces.
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#16
Quote:

Originally Posted by Murrow

They need a strong face GM for Raw, to just wash away the repetitive taste of it being ruled by a tyrannical authority figure for the past four years. I'd suggest bringing back Bisch as an enlightened tough-but-fair kinda boss, but I think that train has sailed.

Also, positioning Edge & Nitro as the "new" DX, challenging HHH & HBK and claiming to be far more degenerate than them, has money written all over it. Those two most definitely have enough charisma to play off of the top faces.

Wow, two very good ideas. I loved Bisch as GM, prettuy dumb that he sits on the sidelines. He was very underrated as a character.
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#17
I don't know if there's a way to do a face GM... Teddy Long is the closest we'll get, but he's not really an engaging character, and I find him to be more often than not a poor use of TV time (then again, I find most WWE TV to be just so, as I'm still pissing and moaning about standard match times dwindling down to the 2-4 minute mark).

I will argue about the heels on RAW not having Vince charisma - scripting their promos has handcuffed a few of them (Edge, especially).
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#18
Quote:

Originally Posted by Murrow

They need a strong face GM for Raw, to just wash away the repetitive taste of it being ruled by a tyrannical authority figure for the past four years. I'd suggest bringing back Bisch as an enlightened tough-but-fair kinda boss, but I think that train has sailed.

Also, positioning Edge & Nitro as the "new" DX, challenging HHH & HBK and claiming to be far more degenerate than them, has money written all over it. Those two most definitely have enough charisma to play off of the top faces.

I was going to say the same thing, except it wont happen because they can't seem to get away from the Cena/Edge feud.
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#19
Hell, bring back Slaughter as the GM. He played the "tough but fair" GM role pretty well. I even got a kick out of Foley when he was the GM and he brought that cactus and a gavel with him everywhere he went.

Unfortunately, since DX is still "selling tickets", I would imagine that Vince & Shane will stay in the picture until DX is dissolved. This may even go on until the next Wrestlemania.
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#20
I think a face GM can be very effective, and as Long really only exists to book the matches I don't see him as a waste of TV time. It's not like he gets heavily involved in angles or anything. He's the glue that holds the SmackDown booking together.

I think Bischoff could be very effective in that kind of role. Post-haircut in 2004 he was close to it, and was working a great tweener vibe. He could book matches, set folk straight, and generally just keep order. The shows have evolved to a point where having no authority figure just doesn't work. They may as well try and make them as engaging yet unobtrusive as possible.
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#21
Piper for Raw GM.
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#22
Word on the dirt sheets is that Dx/McMahons will go on for several more months. However, grain of salt, etc.

In this day and age, a long feud such as this needs a true blow-off. There would be a subconscious reconnection (or a beginning of it) in a lot of fans' minds if DX took the McMahons off WWE TV "forever" (at least two years).

I find it amusing that Vince doesn't truly understand where ECW's brand loyalty comes from...


Piper as RAW GM is gold. Sadly, his brain damage has rendered his promos pretty depressing at times.

One thing I wish I'd never see again is GM's booking matches that night, specifically after a brawl during the opening match.
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#23
Agreed, it adds more hype if they book it for the next show.
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#24
Quote:

Originally Posted by Murrow

I think a face GM can be very effective, and as Long really only exists to book the matches I don't see him as a waste of TV time. It's not like he gets heavily involved in angles or anything. He's the glue that holds the SmackDown booking together.

Lord help me, I still find it hilarious every time I hear Long call someone "Playa".

And I still can't help but remember him when he first stopped being a referee and became Johnny B. Badd's manager in WCW, and he had that terrible looking mullet, except it wasn't short on top, he was completely bald. "Teddy! Teddy! Help me!"
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#25
I think he was a manager first, back in '89/90. He was then known as Thedore R. Long. I remember his tag team Doom (during the feud with the Horsemen) was announced as "Thedore R. Long proudly presents...!" Good shit.
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#26
I would just love to see Edge away from Cena, nothing against Cena personally but having him rule over main events for the better part of a year is no better than HHH doing it (even if Cena isn't screwing the boss' daughter.) Also get rid of the damn spinner belts, it's disgusting as a design and anybody who has their own world title makes me sick, even Austins and I'm a HUGE Austin mark.

I do kind of like the new DX idea with Nitro and Edge but I don't see HBK doing anything more than he is right now to make DX entertaining so I bet they'll just be opposite McMahons till they break them up.

And lastly for the love of all that's good and holy can we just let ECW be ECW? I mean who in the hell is interested in Test or Knox or Kelly, or Shannon Moore? Give me New Jack, Stevie Richards, FBI, Sandman, RVD, Sabu NOT talking, and do it weekly at Hammerstein so ECW fans will be at the ECW show. Just my opinion.
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#27
I'd love to see Edge away from Cena, too.

I know this is tinfoil hat talk, but I can't help wondering how much of Edge's main event push is being sabotaged, or if the bookers really are that dumb...
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#28
New Jack is a fucking sociopath, old school ECW or not. He also can't wrestle worth a damn. Hiring him is a terrible idea.

I think that, despite it's scant resemblance to the old organisation, the new ECW is finding its legs. I genuinely don't understand anyone who findsTest THAT offensive-particularly in this new fired-up incarnation. He's a musclebound jock, sure, but he's also fast, he's got some good big man offence and he's a really easy-to-boo prick. Knox is worthless but I think they're cottoning on to that fact, and Moore is likely to be no more than a jobber. There are significant improvements needed, but the show's not a write-off. Unless, that is, you class the old ECW as gospel not to be fucked with.

Also: I don't think Edge's push is being sabotaged. If that were the case he wouldn't have owned Cena these past few months, eventual Cena title win notwithstanding.
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#29
I don't think Edge's owned Cena at all. More tellingly, Edge has not been put over by other main eventers (or even upper carders).

I agree that people who want the "old" ECW aren't looking at it logically. It's 2006. Those people cannot and will not perform at anywhere near the level we remember. The new ECW needs to focus on new talent.

I wish Paul Heyman had free reign to grab any six wrestlers he wanted from the TNA roster, and could book ECW himself. I mean, anyone remember when he booked SD! in 2003 or so?
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#30
Eh. Heyman's SmackDown booking consisted of telling Chris Benoit, Edge, Mysterio and the Guerreros to have good matches with each other. Oh, and pushing The Big Show. Not that I'm complaining, mind you-it wa sbetter than the rest of the wrestling world had to offer at the time-but the guy has his limitations. The abundance of "tag matches booked on the fly" segments he likes to toss in, for example. Still, if they're gonna do ECW, they should let him take the reins.

And Edge has gotten more on Cena than anyone else in the past two years. He outsmarted him to win BOTH of his world titles, and despite everything working against him in terms of match stips he's retained his title in two high-profile matches in the past six weeks. As a weasly heel I'd say he's doing just fine.
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#31
Quote:

Originally Posted by Murrow

Also, positioning Edge & Nitro as the "new" DX, challenging HHH & HBK and claiming to be far more degenerate than them, has money written all over it. Those two most definitely have enough charisma to play off of the top faces.

THAT, Murrow, is smart thinkin'.

I am also in the camp that thinks that the ECW Show has finally hit its stride. For now. As for Test? He is experiencing one of the best stages in his career. Test simply works now. Before, he was ruined by bad booking and almost weekly turns. Now he's an uberheel, and has been away long enough that he is a fresh face again. Well done WWE.
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#32
Quote:

Originally Posted by Murrow

As a weasly heel I'd say he's doing just fine.

Weasly heels (Honky Tonk Man) aren't main eventers.

He's also gotten physically punked out more often than not (the hotel room).

I agree the new ECW is on its way towards something... we'll see what in the weeks to come. Also, I agree with Test, though I think he should've had a name change too (what about Titan?).
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#33
Armando Alejandro Estrada is the prime reason I tune in every week. RAWs where he doesn't get mic time ruin my evening. AAE is golden toast.
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#34
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dario Delfino

I think he was a manager first, back in '89/90. He was then known as Thedore R. Long. I remember his tag team Doom (during the feud with the Horsemen) was announced as "Thedore R. Long proudly presents...!" Good shit.

He was a referee first, and he started "messing up" matches in favor of the heels, so he was "fired" by the NWA/WCW. He went on to become Doom's manager after Woman and their unmasking from losing to the Steiners.

I really remember him well from managing the Skyscapers (Mark "Undertaker" Callous and Dan Spivey, who went on to be replaced by Sid Vicious I believe). I think he also managed Chris Jericho, One Man Gang, and Bobby Eaton at some points in time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dario Delfino

I agree the new ECW is on its way towards something... we'll see what in the weeks to come. Also, I agree with Test, though I think he should've had a name change too (what about Titan?).

Why doesn't he just call himself Andrew Martin? That's his friggin' name. Maybe they didn't want to come up with new theme music for him.
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#35
Quote:

Originally Posted by Martianman

He was a referee first, and he started "messing up" matches in favor of the heels, so he was "fired" by the NWA/WCW. He went on to become Doom's manager after Woman and their unmasking from losing to the Steiners.

THAT'S RIGHT! Wow, crazy flashback.

This same angle was also used for "Dangerous" Danny Davis and Bill Alphonso, IIRC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martianman

Why doesn't he just call himself Andrew Martin?

'Cause it's too vanilla. I went with that name because it starts with "T" (gotta feel bad for the guy after tattooing his T insignia on his shoulder, then not being able to wrestle under that name) and it was the original name of Vince McMahon's company.
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