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Wrestling Discussion Thread (WWE, TNA, ECW, WCW, etc.)
#36
Vince has worn out his welcome with me this week. He was in SEVEN!?!?! segments on Raw. You just know the blow-off is gonna be HHH is Steph's babydaddy, Vince has a fake "heart-attack", HHH turns on HBK and thats that. The Edge-Carlito match was pretty good and just shows why he needs to move away from Cena. Shelton Benjamin needs a manager, (Davari?), to push him as another top heel on Raw.

ECW is okay, I was the one who preached patience for the show and it finally seems to be paying off. I liked last weeks show. The Balls/Thorn match needed more time and seemed a little off but otherwise it was good. Big Show is putting his all into his ring work and it shows. All they really need is a move away from Smackdown and to a permanent arena.
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#37
Murrow if you don't like New Jack that's fine but others do. Can he wrestle? No, but in all honesty that's not what he was ever booked for. I can see why you don't care for him, I just enjoyed the mayhem that came with his matches for a break from the other matches. As to ECW, I don't look for it to be exactly the same as it was but I do look for it to be ECW. What I mean by that is "Extreme Rules" matches are lame to me, the company is called EXTREME Championship Wrestling(or it was) yet only one match per week is EXTREME rules??

Also if I wanted a fourth of the show to be about divas stripping I would just put on an adult film of my choice. Mike Knox running in to cover up his GF who happens to be an exhibitionist makes no sense in ANY company.

However it's getting a lot better and it's usually better than Raw and Smackdown. I'm not saying it's bad or anything like that, I would just see more of a workrate during the one hour they have. As far as Test goes my problem with him is that he's just not that entertaining to me, he doesn't do anything that interests me at all. It may just be my personal taste but he doesn't appeal to me. I'm sorry if that isn't a good enough reason for you but it's all I have.

The thing about Edge-Cena is that it's constantly featured and Edge hasn't faced anyone else. It doesn't make any sense(to me anyway) that the same guy gets title shot after title shot after losing repeatedly. Would it kill them to move Cena on to something else just for a little while to let Edge feud with another face who NEEDS the rub?

I don't want to come off like Baba because I have enjoyed a lot of things in all three brands, these are just the few things I'd like to see worked on.
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#38
Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank The Tank

Vince has worn out his welcome with me this week. He was in SEVEN!?!?! segments on Raw. You just know the blow-off is gonna be HHH is Steph's babydaddy, Vince has a fake "heart-attack", HHH turns on HBK and thats that. The Edge-Carlito match was pretty good and just shows why he needs to move away from Cena. Shelton Benjamin needs a manager, (Davari?), to push him as another top heel on Raw.

How about a spoiler alert, huh?
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#39
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jcassady

How about a spoiler alert, huh?

If that happens exactly as i said above then I will quit my job and move to Stamford to save the company for us all
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#40
Quote:

Originally Posted by B_MetalSucks

Also if I wanted a fourth of the show to be about divas stripping I would just put on an adult film of my choice. Mike Knox running in to cover up his GF who happens to be an exhibitionist makes no sense in ANY company.

I agree. The Knox covering up Kelly thing is getting fucking old. When everyone in the building knows what's coming next, you need to figure something else out. Like why don't you have him come out, then she kicks him in the nuts, and continues to take her clothes off. Test comes out, pushes her around, and then Sandman canes the shit out of Knox and Test and Kelly is his new bitch. I'd much rather them get rid of her, but if she has to stay, put her with the Sandman. He'll pour beer on her while she strips.
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#41
I was looking through a bunch of old tapes today and found some old Nitros from the beginning of the nWo angle. I forgot how good WCW was back then. I'd say 1996/1997 were their best years. It wasn't until the horrible ending of the Sting/Hogan match at Starrcade '97 where they started going downhill. Anyways, the roster they had in '96/'97 is just absolutely incredible. They had everyone from Benoit, Mysterio, Malenko, Ultimo Dragon, Harlem Heat, Syxx, DDP to the big stars like Hogan, Piper, Hall, Nash, Sting, Luger, etc.

How many of you think that the nWo storyline (the beginning before 30 wrestlers joined) was one of the best storylines in wrestling? Hall and Nash showing up unannounced and then Hogan turning heel was just great booking, imo.
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#42
I've always been more of a WCW guy.

That's probably why I am such a big TNA fan. WWE has always been more cartoony and WCW was about the wrestling. Even during the Attitude Era, I still liked WCW better.

Don't get me wrong. I love The Rock. I liked Steve Austin and Chris Jericho in WWE better than I liked their roles in WCW. Shawn Michaels is still my favorite wrestler of all time. I loved Bret Hart, The British Bulldogs, Owen Hart and all that.

But I still hold a place in my heart for WCW.

NWO was brilliant and made me a wrestling fan again after around 4 years of not watching much. Hall, Nash and Hogan. Then with Waltman and DiBiase. Problem was, they gave the NWO too many members. They tried to make it a rival promotion trying to take over and that killed it. But the original NWO was great. Their feud with the Horsemen was great.

I think one of my best mark-out moments was when Arn Anderson came out, brought out Benoit, Malenko and McMichael and announced the reformation of the Four Horsemen and then brought out Ric Flair. That was great stuff.
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#43
Nitro was the wrestling show to watch back then. People can call WCW a failure all they want but the fact is Eric Bischoff was the only person to "beat" Vince McMahon. I really miss the "Monday Night Wars" and wish TNA would get a two hour show on Monday night to go head to head with RAW. It wasn't fun watching it towards the end of WCW but from 1997 until 1999 was by far the most fun I've had watching wrestling. It was crazy to hear Bischoff give away spoilers to the taped RAW live on Nitro. Bischoff may not have been the best business person but he really knew how to compete with Vince McMahon.

I was just looking on amazon.com for some old WCW VHS tapes and read the card for Halloween Havoc '96. I remember ordering this on PPV and really enjoying it.

Here's the card...

Dean Malenko vs. Rey Mysterio
DDP vs. Eddie Guerrero
Jeff Jarrett vs. The Giant
Syxx vs. Chris Jericho
Arn Anderson vs. Lex Luger
Faces of Fear vs. Steve McMichael & Chris Benoit
The Outsiders vs. Harlem Heat
Hollywood Hogan vs. Macho Man Randy Savage

They put on some very good PPV's back then.
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#44
Nitro was great in the late 90's......But then they screwed up the end to the year long Hogan/Sting angle.....The NWO became a overbloated mess.....Jay leno, Dennis Rodman, David Arquette......I won't even talk about Master P and Kiss.

I would love to see a return to the monday night wars but I don't think TNA would stand much of a chance against Raw......There is great talent in TNA but it's current booking is as bad as Nitro was at the end.

ECW is slowly improving.....at least once you get past the opening Knox and Test segment....I see nothing in test that I didn't see in him the last time he was around.....he's a one trick pony....They aren't booing him cause he's the heel.....they are booing him cause he sucks ass.

But as bad as test is he's Ric fuckin Flair next to Knox....The guy sucks in the ring and has no chemistry with Kelly.....and she is a total mess so keeping them together is double the trainwreck.

Also it's time to get Shannon Moore in the ring......The promos got old weeks ago.....I still don't understand the logic behind Renee Dupree being in there.

The Big show as champ is still hit or miss.....at least now they've stopped putting wwe guys in the ring against him.....hopfully things will improve but enough with the Main event title matches ending in DQ's.....actually there should never be a DQ in ECW.....Having only one match a week be under Extreme rules is flat out criminal.

Kevin Thorn looks goofy as shit but the guy can wrestle......I would love to see him in a feud with CM Punk.

It's getting better but still has much to improve......And for the love of God get the damn show off of the smackdown tapings.
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#45
I appreciate that some don't find Test entertaining. Hell, I wouldn't push him if I were running things. But looking at it objectively, he's a decent midcard guy. He's big, he's strong, he moves twice as fast as others his size and he's got a decent set of moves that work in the six-minute TV match style. And I disagree that people are booing him because he sucks. Knox gets bood because he sucks. Test gets "you can't wrestle" chants because that's what the ECW faithful do when confronted with a heel of his type. You split that pairing up and Test would fare infinitely better.

BMetal, New Jack's brawls could occasionally be entertaining. But it's been six years since he was on a national show, and I'm sure his volatile temprement hasn't improved since then. From a workrate standpoint he's awful. From a locker-room standpoint he's even worse. I'd much rather they take a charismatic up-and-comer and give them similar schtick than waste money on a man known for his dangerous conduct both in the ring and out. He's just not a guy who deserves another shot after the shit he's pulled.
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#46
I agree that ECW is getting better. I think you can tell that Paul Heyman is getting more and more control over the booking. Now all it needs is to get rid of the "Extreme Rules" matches and have it be all extreme. I don't mean all the matches should involve chairs and tables, there would still be great wrestling and all, but the anything goes vibe of old ECW is needed here.

And I really miss the old style ECW tag team matches where either member could enter the match at will, and tags were never necessary.

I'd like to see a real three way dance too.
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#47
I'm probably going to cop some heat for this but the fact that not every match is extreme is a good thing.

1. It saves the wresterlers bodies - Even someone like Sabu can't go on forever if each match he is in he almost kills himself.

2. It adds excitement when a match is extreme. If you overdo something it looses it's shine, so making the main event and one other match a "hardcore" one actually makes people want to watch the whole show.
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#48
The problem that ECW faces is that it's trying to please both new fans, used to WWE product, and Smarks like Baba. It needs to pick a side and either build heat around younger guys with WWEfied attitude or just bring out the guys from 6 years ago and turn it into chair shot central. Trying to draw a middle ground between the two is just not working.
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#49
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Savage

I'm probably going to cop some heat for this but the fact that not every match is extreme is a good thing.

1. It saves the wresterlers bodies - Even someone like Sabu can't go on forever if each match he is in he almost kills himself.

2. It adds excitement when a match is extreme. If you overdo something it looses it's shine, so making the main event and one other match a "hardcore" one actually makes people want to watch the whole show.

The company is called EXTREME Championship Wrestling.....By making one match out of the 4 or 5 matches a "Extreme rules" it cheapens the name.....But even in the old days of ECW not every match was tables and Chairs and frying pans.....They had guys like Malenko and Benoit that provided great wrestling without beating each other with random objects.

Part of what made the original ECW great was the fact that even if there was a run in the match continued......even if they fought outside the ring for 5 minutes you were gonna see a finish to the match.

They don't have to get hardcore and beat the shit out of each other with chairs or go thru tables in every match......but remove the DQ and Countout rules....There should NEVER be a countout much less a No Decision in ECW....We get enough of that shit on Raw and SD.

I'm hard pressed to remember a DQ or countout decision in the old ECW......But I can name off a half dozen of them in the less than 10 episodes of WWECW.
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#50
Please, let's nix WWECW right now.

You don't like the product, you liked the original, we get that. Please don't do the Babaisms.

Speaking of Baba, I just saw Necro Butcher on CZW....that guy is just fucked.
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#51
DJ hippie im with you on the no count out and no dq rule, as for the rest of it I think you pretty much echoed what I said.
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#52
I do have some comments on the subjects above, but I thought this took precedent (precedence?):

Quote:

According to Dave Meltzer, TNA star Monty Brown quit TNA before Hard Justice due to the fact he was scheduled to job in the three-way match with Samoa Joe and Rhino. The original plan was for Joe to pin Rhino at the PPV, but the former ECW and NWA World Champ has been getting over huge in Orlando, so they decided to protect him at the expense of Brown. Brown was calmed down backstage by Joe and Terry Taylor, and agreed to do the match -- he even got quite a bit of mic time outside after the studio was evacuated due to the fire incident. In fact, one idea going around was to start the street fight outside with Brown being attacked while being interviewed, but that plan got scrapped as they started filing people back into the venue.

Monty Brown's TNA contract is set to expire soon, and he again went to Terry Taylor the day after the PPV to ask for his release. There is talk that he will eventually end up in WWE if he continues to wrestle (he is pretty secure financially from other projects). While the PPV match got great reviews, and may have been his best since he was main eventing vs. Jarrett, the gripe with Brown was always that he needed more seasoning in the ring, yet didn't show interest in doing house shows, and could use some work making his promos more innovative.

In other TNA news, Ron "The Truth" Killings is also unhappy and asked Terry Taylor for his release the day after Hard Justice. Since 3 Live Krew broke up, there have been issues with Killings and TNA management, including Jarrett, and his stalled push combined with recently asking him to job to A1 likely led to Killings' request being made sooner rather than later. He is still under TNA contract, but WWE has shown interest in bringing him in, possibly re-forming Too Cool with Killings, Scotty 2 Hotty and maybe even Rikishi and Brian Christopher/Lawler (Grandmaster Sexay, who seems to get fired days after each of his 'second chances' with WWE, and supposedly was acting no different when backstage at a recent Memphis show, during which he spoke with Johnny Ace about a return). Killings, the former two-time NWA Heavyweight Champion, was briefly in WWE as "K-Kwik," where he partnered with Road Dogg (BG James).

The Wrestling Observer has also reported that Kevin Nash's TNA contract expired on Sunday, August 13, and that while Dixie Carter and Spike TV see him as a big star, the talk behind the scenes is to no longer book him, especially not to wrestle. In a somewhat conflicting report, the Pro Wrestling Torch says that he is in negotiations for a new deal and that for the most part people are happy with the way Nash has conducted himself. While the Torch says that Nash does indeed want to put over Chris Sabin at the end of their program, the Observer implies that the neck injury that kept him from his scheduled match (and planned loss) with Sabin at Hard Justice -- even if it is legit -- is making people backstage wonder if his intentions are indeed pure. The Torch says that Nash's proposed idea is to lose to Sabin in a cage match in a month, as opposed to dominating him in a match, only to lose by a fluke. Time will tell...

More TNA news here
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#53
For me, TNA is what WCW would be today if it had never been bought and sold to a smaller company. Very good wrestling with storylines that run in circles.

As for Monty Brown and Killings, if they can get out and want to be on Heat then all the best. There is no way Killings is anything more than a high profile jobber. Monty Brown could have mid-card success, but its very rare for a guy to come in from another promotion and be successful.
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#54
Brown would be interesting, because he'd essentially be acting as a test balloon to see how well TNA-grown stars would fare if they decided to jump. I could see Vince treating him a lot better than most would think, if only to stick it to TNA.
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#55
Murrow, while I agree with you line of reasoning, saying "Hey look what we can do with this guy," McMahon likes to do it using his gimmicks. That would leave an over guy like Brown having to pick up a new gimmick, which is probably going to be lame (i.e. a tag team with Shelton).
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#56
Actually a tag team with Shelton would be pretty cool.
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#57
There's that possibility. There's also the possibility that Vince'd get all combative, look at Brown and say "we'll show those upstart assholes how to push this guy!" and get behind him from day one. He's a fickle guy.
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#58
If Shelton and Brown were to tag together I gurantee black power salutes would be involved.
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#59
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Savage

Actually a tag team with Shelton would be pretty cool.

When I first wrote it, I thought the same thing, maybe as a couple of super-cocky athletes, with Monty handling the mic, but then I thought of this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike Marshall

If Shelton and Brown were to tag together I gurantee black power salutes would be involved.

But a new team that had the same style as Harlem Heat would be awesome.

(Yes, Yes, Yes. No, No, No.)
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#60
Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike Marshall

Please, let's nix WWECW right now.

You don't like the product, you liked the original, we get that. Please don't do the Babaisms.

I don't think anyone is going to that extreme at this point so let's not throw a Baba label on everyone who has an opinion. And I think others clarified what I meant about the Extreme Rules Matches in that it's lame to have one specific match pointed out as THE extreme rules match in a company called EXTREME championship wrestling. They can still only do one "extreme" match a week, just don't point it out like they do and have the rest of the matches supply good workrate and NO dq's or countouts as others expressed.

It's not that I want this ECW to be the same as the old one, but some things could be done in the spirit of the old ECW such as threeway dances involving TWO pins not one as WWE has been doing forever. Again don't get me wrong, ECW is moving in a good direction and I am enjoying a large part of it, but there's just a few things I'd like to see changed and if I can't discuss that here then where can I?

For those discussing Monty Brown and Killings I too thought the first thing Vince would do is stick them with Shelton in a very deplorable "afro-centric" gimmick. Vince is so blatantly racist in some of his gimmicks that I'm surprised the NAACP hasn't taken him to task for his portrayal of black men. It's disgusting that a guy like Ron Simmons had to go by Farooq, the man was a WORLD CHAMPION.

I do have a question for all, How old is Batista actually?? I have heard everywhere from 30 to 45 and I have no clue, plus my wife wants to know. :-)
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#61
He's 40, or thereabouts.

And I think Vince has gotten the racism out of his system again for the near future. The Playa's Club was only a little while ago, and they haven't gone there with Shelton yet. If Brown formed a tag team with Benjamin they're more likely to get Coach as a manager than become Nation 2.0.
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#62
I don't know Vince loses him some "controversy."

(As an aside, wwECW is a term I've seen all over in columns.)
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#63
I just hope whatever they book Brown as they don't let him yell "Poooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooounce" it's the only thing about him that irks me. Of course that's if he ends up in WWE anyway.

Anybody think something is up with sting dropping the "crow" sting mask several times in that Video montage from TNA? Please tell me he's not gonna go back to surfer Sting.
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#64
Maybe he'll make a new gimmick as "Over the Hill Wrestler Steve Borden".
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#65
I can't picture Monty Brown being anything more than a midcard wrestler if he was on RAW. However, if he went to SmackDown I could see him starting off as a midcard wrestler but moving his way up and if he were to go to ECW he'd dominate right away.
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#66
Quote:

Originally Posted by B_MetalSucks

I don't think anyone is going to that extreme at this point so let's not throw a Baba label on everyone who has an opinion. And I think others clarified what I meant about the Extreme Rules Matches in that it's lame to have one specific match pointed out as THE extreme rules match in a company called EXTREME championship wrestling. They can still only do one "extreme" match a week, just don't point it out like they do and have the rest of the matches supply good workrate and NO dq's or countouts as others expressed.

Not a criticism, I just think we should try and aim for a nickname free wrestling thread. Lest we start adding tard to every noun we disagree with.
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#67
I see what you're saying but the WWECW thing is all over not just here so I'm sure it wasn't anything like Baba. Also I say anyone that adds Mc to the front of ANY word where it doesn't belong, or says wwe-tards instead of retard should get banned as well. :-)

And Martian I bet you're spot on even if you were joking. But if "crow" sting doesn't draw I doubt "old man Stevie B" will either. That's what peeves me about TNA, they have people who could draw but would rather let oldtimers have topspots. I do however enjoy pretty much 90% of what TNA does so I can't complain to much.
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#68
How about "retired and not here tonight" Sting. The shit end of it all is that Steve Broden from all that I've read is a pretty stand-up guy who tries, but also isn't dumb enough to turn down a good contract. So its tought to bash on him.

As for TNA, the wrestling is pretty-good, sometimes its chain-wrestling with a pause to say "hey look, were chain-wrestling" and a band-box ring, but their storylines go no where. I mean its pro-wrestling, their needs to be a story.
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#69
I was a huge Sting fan when I was eight, but that was fourteen-years ago. I'm sure he's a nice guy, but I'd rather see Samoa Joe or AJ Styles going for the world title.
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#70
I don't think Sting's that bad in the ring right now. He's still pretty decent and I'd like to see him take the belt off of Jarrett and drop it Christian. This would put Christian over as the top heel of the company until he eventually drops it to Joe.
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