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So what monumentally classic film did you only just watch now you witless imbecile?
(05-07-2018, 03:44 PM)MichaelM Wrote:
(05-07-2018, 02:18 PM)Mangy Wrote: Zodiac is amazing. YES IT IS.

Why?

Again, I'm asking sincerely. I'm trying to understand why this film is so lauded.
It's a flawlessly made story about obsession. I chuckled at Jones' comment about how it "kind of felt like the story gets a bit lost." YA THINK JONES?

(05-07-2018, 03:51 PM)MichaelM Wrote: (I chickened out after your warning and FFed through it)

Sad
...

Oh come on.
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Should I even watch Birth of a Nation? Even if just in a "history of film" context? Or will it just leave me angry and wishing I hadn't?
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For the historical context, yes. It might be worthwhile to watch in combination with other Griffith melodramas, such as Orphans of the Storm, to see how his storytelling techniques play out in stories with less offensive subject matter.
"I'd rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth."--Steve McQueen
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As a production it's occasionally impressive, and you're watching a piece of history for better or worse. It feels endless though.

I was fully prepared for the racism but even in the context of the time the brazenness of it still managed to surprise me. It's so OTT it almost comes across as self parody, presenting black people as a rampaging hoard of feral monsters, who civilization is only saved from by the righteous army of white knights in shining hoods. All to the sound of Ride Of The Valkyries naturally.
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I feel like I SHOULD watch it. Just....because. But I dunno. Not sure what I'd even get out of it..
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Follow it up with Intolerance, Griffith's response to criticism of Birth of a Nation.
"I'd rather have hope...than nothing at all."
-Illyana Rasputin, X-Men: Omega #1

"But the public, knowing what it wanted, spinning happily, let the comic books survive."
-Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451

Twitter: @BartLBishop
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His response to the CRITICISM? How's that work? In a MoS to BvS type of way where he addresses the issues that he got raked over the coals for or does he throw a hissy fit and double down on whatever he's trying to say lol?
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From Wiki:


Quote:Intolerance was made partly in response to criticism of Griffith's previous film, The Birth of a Nation (1915),[4] which was criticized by the NAACP and other groups as perpetuating racial stereotypes and glorifying the Ku Klux Klan.[5] It was not—as is commonly implied—an apology for the racism of his earlier film;[6] in numerous interviews, Griffith made clear that the film's title and overriding themes were meant as a response to those who he felt had been intolerant of him in condemning The Birth of a Nation.[7] In the years following its release, Intolerance would strongly influence European film movements. In 1989, it was one of the first films to be selected for preservation in the United States National Film Registry by the Library of Congress for being "culturally, historically, or aesthetically significant".

So yeah, it was him doubling down. I just meant watch them both as companion pieces. Just like you can watch Triumph of the Will as a spectacle of filmmaking craft and still not endorse it.
"I'd rather have hope...than nothing at all."
-Illyana Rasputin, X-Men: Omega #1

"But the public, knowing what it wanted, spinning happily, let the comic books survive."
-Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451

Twitter: @BartLBishop
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I am, I think, perfectly content to accept that D.W. Griffith was a talented and innovative filmmaker as established fact while never actually feeling the need to bother watching his love-letter to the Klan.
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I get D.W. Griffith and Cecil B. DeMille mixed up a lot and I'm not sure why..
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DeMille is much more fun.

But I can understand mixing them up. Both were products of 19th-century theatrical traditions, given to heightened emotions and pageantry. In the end, Griffith's greatest contribution to cinema may be the climactic third-act chase-- an event that figures in nearly all of his films, usually a rush to rescue an innocent person from public execution (yes, that consistent and specific). The problem (one, anyway) with Birth is less that its politics are reprehensible and more that it excites and agitates its audience using techniques that would (and did) work for any other story.
"I'd rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth."--Steve McQueen
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Last year, PBS aired a documentary called Birth of a Movement, about William Monroe Trotter and his efforts to have Birth of a Nation banned in Boston. It's worth a look for anyone interested in the movie's social and historical context, and it gives focus to a somewhat overlooked figure in the civil rights movement.
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Rififi. Yes it was as incredible as I had heard so I am a fool for not watching this much sooner as the description of the plot alone sounded right up my alley... and it was. How brutal the movie is overall, and the actual heist having no dialogue or music yet it being incredibly intense... like I said I screwed up in not watching this until tonight when I have known of the film for a long time now.
"It was so bad my friend got up and left in the middle to go have an affair instead. Not kidding."-- shaunh, referring to The Lords of Salem

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Oh man, y'all weren't kidding about Birth of a Nation being a love letter to the Klan. I thought that had to have been at least the tiniest bit metaphorical or exaggerated.

NOPE!
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(05-21-2018, 02:06 AM)The Perfect Weapon Wrote: Rififi. Yes it was as incredible as I had heard so I am a fool for not watching this much sooner as the description of the plot alone sounded right up my alley... and it was. How brutal the movie is overall, and the actual heist having no dialogue or music yet it being incredibly intense... like I said I screwed up in not watching this until tonight when I have known of the film for a long time now.
Rififi is GREAT, my favorite Dassin movie (and he made some really good ones).

Related, I recently saw Touchez Pas Au Grisbi and Bob Le Flambeur, two French noirs on the more existential side of things. I liked them, although maybe they were a bit *too* philosophical for me. Glad I saw them, but I won't return to them over and over like, well, Rififi.
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I am familiar with both Touchez Pas Au Grisbi and Bob Le Flambeur, although I haven't seen either. I'll keep in mind that they are existential before I see them sometime in the future.

Meanwhile, a short while ago I finished... Come and See. Everything I had heard about how bleak and depressing that Soviet movie was, it was not an exaggeration. It is an excellent movie which has a haunting soundtrack, plenty of images that could possibly end up in my nightmares, and an incredible performance from the lead, who was only like 15 at the time of filming. Yet is so successful at showing how horrifying war is, I do not know if I'll ever watch it again; believe me it's not an easy sit.
"It was so bad my friend got up and left in the middle to go have an affair instead. Not kidding."-- shaunh, referring to The Lords of Salem

My Letterboxd Page
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Adding to the love for RIFIFI. I own that one on Criterion.
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(05-23-2018, 03:17 AM)The Perfect Weapon Wrote: Meanwhile, a short while ago I finished... Come and See. Everything I had heard about how bleak and depressing that Soviet movie was, it was not an exaggeration. It is an excellent movie which has a haunting soundtrack, plenty of images that could possibly end up in my nightmares, and an incredible performance from the lead, who was only like 15 at the time of filming. Yet is so successful at showing how horrifying war is, I do not know if I'll ever watch it again; believe me it's not an easy sit.

Don't quote me on this, as I am not an expert on the film, but I am pretty sure when they show bombs going off and trees getting leveled, they were actually using actual "bombs" and not just special effects.

I visited the Khatyn Memorial, just outside of Minsk, a few years ago. It was pretty crazy. I am no historian(far from it), but that fact that over 600 villages in Belarus were burned to the ground (as well as killing all most of the people that lived in them) is insane. Most people don't even know where Belarus is...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khatyn_massacre
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I saw Come and See recently, and it's incredible. It's too bad the version I saw wasn't in HD, as I don't think I can sit through it again when and if it's restored. It really does seem like the lead ages 10-20 years over the course of the movie.
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I recall enjoying Rififi and Bob LaFlambeur but remember little about each.

Come and See, damn what a bad trip of a movie (bad trip not bad movie).  The first time I saw it was in bits and pieces on a public access channel around 1990.

As I was just seeing mini-vignettes, it was the most bizarre thing ever.  Years later I actually was able to find it on imdb and bought it on VHS.  (Idi i Smotri, dir. Elim Klimov)  Even watching it again and in full, a couple of times I was like, 'wait, what movie am I watching?'  

Before I understood the context and continuity of it, it just seemed surreal.  The hero is such a chump that it's hard to really feel for him until the end.  And there are many weird asides like the tar pit or whatever that was.

The skeleton dressed in Nazi costume, the kid hiding behind the dead cow while bullets traced by.  Pulling a rifle out of the mud.  The rain interlude with the girl.
Stratosphere baby, stratosphere.  I'm stacked up over La Guardia and I'm not comin' down for nobody.  Not even you.
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