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The School Shooting Thread
Quote:

Originally Posted by PsYcHwArD101

I was talking about safety relative to the ppl inside the car.

Doesn't matter. The 'guns aren't safe but neither are cars' argument is a red herring anyway.
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I'm not the one that brought cars into the equation, I was simply commenting on the 5th most significant cause of death in the United States, and the 2nd if you don't count that the first three are all health-related.

It was proposed that cars have a safe purpose, and that's true. But they are 3 times more likely to cause death than firearms and that is something that needs to be pointed out.
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It's not a valid comparison because cars are used more often and under completely different circumstances. I'm not accusing you of making the argument, just pointing out that it's neither here nor there.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Seabass Inna Bun

It's not a valid comparison because cars are used more often and under completely different circumstances.

I'll give you that...not taking into account certain members of our society that use automobiles to acquire future taxidermy projects.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Ali Mohamed

Er...what?

DNA, as Devin pointed, wouldn't work because all Amish shares some DNA fingerprint with other, due the fact "they're all kinda cousins". Nevermind.
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I was waiting for this...I don't know whether to laugh or weep:

Quote:

Sam Stoltzfus, 63, an Amish woodworker who lives a few miles away from the shooting scene, said the victims’ families will be sustained by their faith. "We think it was God’s plan and we’re going to have to pick up the pieces and keep going,” he said. “A funeral to us is a much more important thing than the day of birth because we believe in the hereafter. The children are better off than their survivors.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15128946/

Of course, it was God's plan...what was I thinking!


Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Wood

Not really. Cars have a perfectly legitimate and safe use. Guns are used solely for causing harm. And making cool action movies.

Guns don't have a legitimate use? Are you crazy? Being able to defend yourself from a homicdal, milk-delivering. child molesting monster by blowing his head off seems like a pretty good use to me (or defending yourself or others from any other criminal, for that matter). Plus, there are still, like....fifty, people in the U.S. that actually have to hunt for sustenance.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Overlord

Guns don't have a legitimate use? Are you crazy? Being able to defend yourself from a homicdal, milk-delivering. child molesting monster by blowing his head off seems like a pretty good use to me (or defending yourself or others from any other criminal, for that matter). .

You'll notice I said "legitimate and safe." If a car is used properly then going to the supermarket for a carton of eggs isn't going to harm anyone (unless you factor in pollution or contributing to tension in the Middle East, or have high cholesterol). If a gun is used properly someone is going to wind up with a bullet hole (sometimes that someone is a criminal, but more often not).

As for issues of self-defense:

1) I don't know the statistics, but unless you're Wyatt Earp or James Bond I would guess most of the time the criminal is going to have the drop on you, and even having a concealed weapon permit isn't going to be much help. Sure there will be some instances of home invasion where a shotgun would be handy. But there's always tasers.

2) The wild wild west is far behind us, and if citizens in the 21st century feel compelled to carry firearms for self-defense that is a desperate call for massive law enforcement reform, not loose gun laws.
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"Investigators said Roberts, who brought lubricating jelly and plastic restraints with him, may have been planning to sexually assault the Amish girls".

That's the absolutely best part of this. I'd love to be in this guy's head on the day he was prepping this, it would probably sound a lot like Elmer Fudd with a vicious purple hard-on.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Wood

You'll notice I said "legitimate and safe." If a car is used properly then going to the supermarket for a carton of eggs isn't going to harm anyone (unless you factor in pollution or contributing to tension in the Middle East, or have high cholesterol). If a gun is used properly someone is going to wind up with a bullet hole (sometimes that someone is a criminal, but more often not).

As for issues of self-defense:

1) I don't know the statistics, but unless you're Wyatt Earp or James Bond I would guess most of the time the criminal is going to have the drop on you, and even having a concealed weapon permit isn't going to be much help. Sure there will be some instances of home invasion where a shotgun would be handy. But there's always tasers.

2) The wild wild west is far behind us, and if citizens in the 21st century feel compelled to carry firearms for self-defense that is a desperate call for massive law enforcement reform, not loose gun laws.

You are dodging the crux of my argument, so let me help you out by going through this step by step.

1)You said: "Cars have a perfectly legitimate and safe use. Guns are used solely for causing harm. And making cool action movies." I took this, logically, to mean that you do not believe guns have ANY legitimate use.

2)I found your proposition to be asinine.

3)I pointed out that deterring those who wish to cause you or your loved ones severe physical harm by shooting them seems to be a legitimate use of firearms.

4)Your response was to craft a lengthy, rhetoric filled argument that appears to state that guns cause more harm than good, and we aren't living in the "wild west". This may, or may not, be true (you cite very few articles or statistics to back up your assertion), but it begs the argument and completely misses my point; that being that your assertion that guns have no legitimate use is utterly erroneous.

Do you really believe guns have no legitimate use?
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Overlord

4)Your response was to craft a lengthy, rhetoric filled argument that appears to state that guns cause more harm than good, and we aren't living in the "wild west". This may, or may not, be true (you cite very few articles or statistics to back up your assertion), but it begs the argument and completely misses my point; that being that your assertion that guns have no legitimate use is utterly erroneous.

The original point many posts ago (which was made in response to someone else) was just making a distinction between cars and firearms. One is used for transportation, and one for killing. Nothing deeper than that.
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I've always thought of guns as more a weapon of deterrance.

For example, you know that the cop over there has a pistol, and you know that he's been trained on how to use that pistol; therefore, you opt not to start an altercation.

Same goes for when a gun is pulled on you. You know that the guy holding the gun can shoot you, and that it may hurt a whole lot, even kill you. So, you decide that ticking him off is a bad plan.

On a side note, if I ever have a gun pulled on me, I'm hoping that the person that pulls it is a very brave person. At the very least, a brave person would have the presence of mind not to just fire a round into your chest. A coward, on the other hand, will shoot you for no reason at all.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Wood

The original point many posts ago (which was made in response to someone else) was just making a distinction between cars and firearms. One is used for transportation, and one for killing. Nothing deeper than that.

Guns are also used to keep people from killing you.
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A 13y/o was arrested this morning at the junior high school in my town carrying an AK-47?

Why in the hell does anyone need this type of weapon?

I'm sure the redneck hillbilles will ignore the obvious problem and blame Bill Clinton and the rest of the "dirty liberals."
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You know what we need?
A good old fashioned school shooting. It's been like weeks!
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there is always happening things like that everywhere.......

not just there
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Why would you ever bump this thread with something that useless?
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Look at the rest of this winner's posts to discover the truth: he's either a non sequitur bot or a shill inflating his post count before springing something on us.
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Sadly, we have to update this thread...

From the AP newsire:

Quote:

TACOMA, Wash. - One student was shot to death in a high school hallway as classes were starting Wednesday morning, and police arrested another student found wandering in a neighborhood a few miles away, officials said.

The slain student's age and many details of the 7:30 a.m. shooting at Foss High School were not immediately released, but police spokesman Mark Fulghum said no one else was hurt.

Fulghum said police were trying to determine what prompted the attack.

The suspected shooter, another Foss student, was captured about two hours later without putting up a fight, Police Detective Chris Taylor said.

"He was wandering in the neighborhood a few miles away," Taylor said. "How he got that far isn't clear."

The shooting happened in a hallway at the school, on the first day back for students after the winter break, he said.

Freshman Sam Sao, 14, said she was in the lunchroom, waiting for the bell to ring, when the shots were fired.

"Everyone was yelling, 'Get in the gym! Get in the gym!'" she said. "At first we thought it was a fight. Then the teachers started getting on the tables and screaming."

Jacki Phongsavath, a junior at Foss, told KOMO-TV of Seattle he was in a nearby hall and didn't know who the shooter was.

"I thought it was fireworks, but it was probably three shots," Phongsavath said. "I looked around the corner and saw someone laying on the ground and blood on the lockers."

The school was locked down after the shooting. By about 8:30, police had secured the building and students were being sent home, Tacoma School District spokeswoman Pam Thompson said. Classes were canceled for the rest of the day.

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I guess they don't have bullets in Massachusetts:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/01/19/sch....ap/index.html

Quote:

DA: Student killed classmate, 15, at school
POSTED: 12:32 p.m. EST, January 19, 2007

SUDBURY, Massachusetts (AP) -- A 16-year-old student was charged with murder in the Friday morning stabbing of a classmate at a high school in an affluent Boston suburb.

The 15-year-old victim was stabbed in a hallway after a fight broke out between him and another male student in a school bathroom before classes began, District Attorney Gerard Leone said.

Leone called the fight an "isolated incident" between the two students. "There is no thought or belief that anyone else is in danger," he said.

The name of the student charged was not immediately released.

The victim, a freshman, was brought to Emerson Hospital in Concord from the high school in Sudbury and pronounced dead at 8:12 a.m., said Bonnie Goldsmith, a hospital spokeswoman.

State and local police were sent to the school.

Fred Smerlas, whose daughter attends the school, said parents were told that two students were involved in an incident.

Mary Clemens, a 17-year-old senior, said that when she arrived at the campus, students had gathered in the cafeteria.

"We were told by an administrator that someone was stabbed and it was bad, that that person was taken to the hospital and someone else had been taken to the police," Clemens said.

Smerlas said parents were told that students were taken to the school gymnasium after the stabbing.

The school, which has about 1,600 students, is 17 miles west of Boston.

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Gunman Kills 21 at Virginia Tech

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1
Quote:

BLACKSBURG, Va. (AP) - A gunman opened fire in a dorm and classroom at Virginia Tech on Monday, killing 21 people and wounding another 21 before he was killed, police said.

On the Web site, Tech reported the shootings at opposite sides of the 2,600-acre campus at West Ambler Johnston, a co-ed residence hall that houses 895 people, and said there were "multiple victims" at Norris Hall, an engineering building.

All entrances to the campus were closed and classes canceled through Tuesday.

"There's just a lot of commotion. It's hard to tell exactly what's going on," said student Jason Anthony Smith, 19, who lives in the dorm where shooting took place.

Aimee Kanode, a freshman from Martinsville, said the shooting happened on the 4th floor of West Ambler Johnston dormitory, one floor above her room. Kanode's resident assistant knocked on her door about 8 a.m. to notify students to stay put.

"They had us under lockdown," Kanode said. "They temporarily lifted the lockdown, the gunman shot again."

"We're all locked in our dorms surfing the Internet trying to figure out what's going on," Kanode said.

Madison Van Duyne, a student who was interviewed by telephone on CNN, said, "We are all in lockdown. Most of the students are sitting on the floors away from the windows just trying to be as safe as possible."

It was second time in less than a year that the campus was closed because of a shooting.

In August 2006, the opening day of classes was canceled and the campus closed when an escaped jail inmate allegedly killed a hospital guard off campus and fled to the Tech area. A sheriff's deputy involved in the manhunt was killed on a trail just off campus.

The accused gunman, William Morva, faces capital murder charges.

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More Blacksburg on Blacksburg crime.
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21! Is that a record? Guy must've had some serious hardware.
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Other than the fact that he used a gun, that reads EXACTLY like the plot of a really good slasher flick. 21! Consider the ante UPPED.
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Normally I'm surprised by how low death counts are during these massacres.....this is the only time I can recall being shocked by how high it is.
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I think 21 is a record for school shootings. George Hennard killed 23 in the Luby massacre (Killeen, Texas, '91), which I think is the US mass murder record. Martin Bryant killed 35 in Tasmania, '96, which I believe is the world record for a solo mass murder by firearm.

Edit: Now at 22.
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Shooter makes 22.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by nekkerbee

I think 21 is a record for school shootings. George Hennard killed 23 in the Luby massacre (Killeen, Texas, '91), which I think is the US mass murder record. Martin Bryant killed 35 in Tasmania, '96, which I believe is the world record for a solo mass murder by firearm.

Edit: Now at 22.

Bath Michigan school bombings in 1927 killed 45.
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This is sad stuff but I'm very proud of this thread.
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Devin: You are correct, but I was limiting my references to shootings. The Bath incident was also unusual in that the killer wasn't a student, as the case seems to be at Virginia Tech (and almost all school shootings.)

Edit: CNN says police don't know if the gunman (men?) was a student.

Edit #2: Despite this tragedy, Nick's avatar has me at half-mast. Behold the power of Biel's ass.
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ABC News now reporting that at least 29 are dead on their frontpage:

http://abcnews.go.com/
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Did I mis-read the article... because it says the gunman was killed by police but is also facing capitol murder charges. You can charge a dead person? What's the sentence? Bringing them back to life to give them the death penalty?
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You misread it.

Quote:

In August 2006, the opening day of classes was canceled and the campus closed when an escaped jail inmate allegedly killed a hospital guard off campus and fled to the Tech area. A sheriff's deputy involved in the manhunt was killed on a trail just off campus.

The accused gunman, William Morva, faces capital murder charges.

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Journalism is in a sad state -- I go to read the news and all I see is coverage of some Hokie story....
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Christ, it's at 29 now. Beat the 1966 U of Texas tower shooting. Now listed as the deadliest college campus shooting on record.

Bad shit goes down on this particular week of April due to sick assholes, misanthropes and just straight up douchebags.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Riviello

21! Is that a record? Guy must've had some serious hardware.

He wasn't shooting at cops. He was shooting a students in their dorm or class. No serious hardware required. Just a lot of rounds.
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