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Daredevil discussion
#1
Saw it today. Decent flick. Too much going on, though, and never really identified with Murdock/Daredevil like I did with Parker/Spidey. Still a pretty good flick though. Farrell and Duncan are quite good in it. But again, its downfall (to me, at least) was that Affleck was boring as a superhero (although I enjoyed him as Murdock) and the flick lacked focus.

The fight scenes were good (except for the first one), and the villains make the film.

Good February flick, but I'm betting we see better over the summer.
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#2
Quote:

nofate:
Sounds great. The only thing I've been worried about so far is the fighting.

Dude....I think that's the only thing that looks promising.

going for the record of anti-Daredevil rant number 657: Agent Fixxxer!!!

I think, coming from an actual comic fan, that what we're gonna' get from Daredevil is a great action flick, but a bad comic book flick. I think we're gonna get some in-your-face, balls-crazy action, but it's gonna have a lot of those "comic-to-movie" flaws, most notably, the cast.

I really want this movie to be good, as most people who are going to see this movie does, but personally, I am still irriated by the bad mis-casting. And no, I think Michael Clarke is the best of the bunch(sadly).

Hopefully this movie will prove me wrong. I really hope it does. I'm such a critical/whiny fan-boy, that I get a little too protective about these characters. But, if this movie does suck, then that's okay, because I'm not expecting a whole lot from this flick.

Now, if the HULK sucks, then I'm going to go into a deep depression.

- Fixxxer
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#3
Quote:

nofate:
Most of the reviews are praising this for being a personal, character driven flick. The script and novelization seem to indicate that the story will be very good.

Goddamn, kid. I have never heard people pre-spin a movie MORE than with "Daredevil." Well, hearing Joe Roth say, "America's Sweethearts is like a Preston Sturges film" with the whole tint of "if you don't like it you're an uncultured sap" (which I've always felt is akin to the "it's a fan movie for fans made by fans" claim that's used by everyone from Paramount during odd-movie "Star Trek" years to other studios when they have films that people don't have faith in - and NO, I'm not suggesting Fox doesn't have faith in "Daredevil"Wink comes close, but Jiminy Christmas.
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#4
This place is resembling patented AICN talkback shenanigans too much when it comes to Daredevil.
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#5
Score is pretty good, but the film will automatically be dated due to some of the crappy songs...
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#6
Well, I'm gonna go see Daredevil no matter what. Most of the reviews I've read are encouraging, however. I don't expect Daredevil to be a masterpiece, but I think it'll be pretty good, and enjoyable for this DD fan.
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#7
Quote:

nofate:
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for flyers by flyers:
Score is pretty good, but the film will automatically be dated due to some of the crappy songs...

Does it play the Bring Me To Life song that's in the trailer?

I forget, to be quite honest. But there's a few soundtrack songs that are in it that I really don't care for. But the House of Pain song they use fits quite nicely...
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#8
I just want to see "The Man Without Fear" on the big-screen, knockin' heads with a billy club.

The movie isn't going to be "art", like the comic has sometimes been. I just think that this movie will definitly capture the themes of Daredevil which to my estimation are Do Good, Help those who can't help themselves, and get back up, always get back up. That is all I want in the movie
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#9
Quote:

nofate:
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for flyers by flyers:
Quote:

nofate:
Quote:

for flyers by flyers:
Score is pretty good, but the film will automatically be dated due to some of the crappy songs...

Does it play the Bring Me To Life song that's in the trailer?

I forget, to be quite honest. But there's a few soundtrack songs that are in it that I really don't care for. But the House of Pain song they use fits quite nicely...

The same guys that did Jump Around?

Um....yeah. Of course. It's a song used to introduce Bullseye, since he's Irish...
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#10
nofate is most certainly a studio plant. thank you.

by the way, i'm definitely seeing this movie - gotta check out my favorite comic book hero as a kid on the big screen. just gotta, regardless of positive or negative reviews.
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#11
For me this is the first must-see for 2003, pretty much.

I'm not even a Daredevil fan but I love comic book films and i'm probably gonna get into DD after this anyway.
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#12
I can't get myself excited over Daredevil. I like the character and all, and I'm not exactly all that irked with Ben Affleck, but every time I see a trailer, I remain unimpressed and unmotivated to see this movie.

I guess it's because I've seen this movie in dozens of better-done comic book films. The cop denying that Daredevil even exists (Batman). The superhero's logo that is lit up in flames (The Crow). The hero making death defying jumps off of buildings and doing flips (Blade). The "let's do a backflip to avoid the magical ninja star glass shards" (Spider-Man as well as every action movie that came out after the Matrix. Sheesh.) The love intrest that is also a foil (Batman Returns). It's all been done.

There just isn't enough of a fresh approach to this film-- it seems to be by-the-numbers filmmaking. I've watched the clips of the fighting scenes, and they're either uninspired or unoriginal, like the aformentioned glass-ninja star scene. I just can't find the excitment for this movie.

Oh, and someone explain to Colin Farrel that speaking every line of dialouge in a barely audiable whisper does not make you intimidating, it just makes you fucking impossible to understand. (The "I want a costume" that closes the trailer does not leave the audiance laughing, it leaves them going "What the hell did he just say?"Wink
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#13
Just saw the movie, and as a non-comic reader I have to say that Daredevil was everything Spider-Man was and more. Personally, I enjoyed the time spent developing the relationship between Murdock and Electra, I also like the theme of justice and how the protagonist struggles with it. I really felt it was a more mature superhero movie, and while Spider-Man was fun, Daredevil is a notch above.
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#14
g-dude read Moriarty's review over at AICN.

DD does have different elements to it - ie ignoring pleas for help, actively delivering final judgement to criminals etc.

Sure there are certain conventions you're going to get... and isn't that true with any movie?
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#15
Seeing it tonight at the CHUD Atlanta screening, courtesy of Nick... will report back with my thoughts when I return.
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#16
Very nice!
A big greasy cheeseburger of a movie. More meat than cheese. I really liked it. You will have some qualms, but if you let go and suspend disbelief for a while, it's a great ride.
Thanks, Nick!

by the way... X2 will stomp all ass.

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#17
No spoilers here. Just saw the flick thanks to CHUD (thanks again Nick). Overall, I would say about a 7 out of 10. First fight scene was poor but the rest were very good (as far as non-martial artists can do). I really liked the darker, grittier feel that it had over Spider-Man. It seemed more "real" than Spider-Man. The cast was good.

Emotional attachment wasn't nearly as strong as Spidey though. When Uncle Ben died in Spidey it was very moving. Any serious emotional scenes in DD were just OK, not moving. Bullseye was very good and Foggy Nelson was great comic relief. Overall, funnier than Spidey. At times there are some big plot inconsistencies and some of the camera angles and shots were cheesy. But there were some very original ideas in the plot.

Overall, go see it this weekend, good flick. Cheers.
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#18
Just saw it, definitely my favorite comic book movie to date.
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#19
Carrying on the Atlanta opinions...

First of all, muchas gracias to Nick (once again) for providing the passes. Now, on to our feature presentation:

The movie as a whole, was OK, in my opinion. I'd rank it just below X-Men (and the preview for X2 was badass...the whole crowd broke out into applause after it). I felt that the first of the movie was rushed, mainly because we needed to fit in DD's origin plus him meeting Elektra, and the Kingpin being established as a bad guy. Once all that groundwork is laid, the movie gets better. Jon Favreau notched up the movie whenever he was on screen (which wasn't enough), and MCD really wasn't in the movie that much. Bullseye rocked, and had some really good scenes. There were some groaner/laughable lines in the movie, and some parts towards the beginning that were taken DIRECTLY from "Spider-Man". Lots of cameos and references to comic writers and artists (take note of who "Devil" Murdock's final opponent is). I have one word for the director: SCORE. I don't think there was a single scene with just music...there was always a song in the background. And it just didn't work sometimes. And the movie changed tone a lot. Sometimes it would get very dark, but not really stay with that. You don't really get a good base of how Daredevil came to be in the shape he's in now, both mentally and physically. And most of the fight scenes seemed very choppy to me, similar to "The One". The scene b/w Elektra and Murdock when they first meet was very good, however. But I did enjoy it overall, and would probably go see it again. If this is the worst of the comics-to-movies of 2003, then I'd say we're doing pretty well. I'd give it 6.5/10, whereas I'd given X-Men 7/10.

SPOILERS/CAMEOS
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Want to see Buffy and Mr. Buffy? After Bullseye eats it on Urich's windshield, there's a shot of folks watching DD cross the rooftops. Look to the left, and you'll see SMG and FPJ. Also, Kevin Smith appears as a coroner(?) which is kind of a funny scene. And LOTS of name-dropping...John Romita, Jack Kirby, Joe Quesada, Bendis, and others. Mostly in the beginning. Actually, the references got a little old after a while.
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#20
Better than expected. Full review Thursday night.
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#21
Worse than expected.

The thing is, I don't hate the movie. I hate that it squandered what could've been.

As it is now, it's an incoherent mess of a film that's obviously been hacked in a way that mirrors the butchery Warners put upon The Avengers the weeks before it was released in theaters.

90 minutes is not enough time to tell TWO origin stories, establish the ADULT Matt Murdock, his and Elektra's romances, Jack Murdock, Matt Murdock's radar sense, Kingpin, Bullseye, and decent supporting characters to boot.

The fight scenes are choopy, muddily lit, and barely comprehensible. Not just the first one. All. Everything is a quick rush of sais or shurikens or whatever being thrown along with some repetitve and ineffectual wire kicks (the slo-mo overhead flip-kick is repeated THREE times in this film!) and characters leaping to and fro as if everyone was Spidey or Nightcrawler.

The rushed pace really hurts the relationships in this film because the ELektra romance is completely sabotaged since they seem to fall madly in love almost the same day they meet for the first time even though Elektra reminds us how she guards her heart and doesn't want to be hurt. Her relationship with her father suffers as well as Matt's relationship with his Dad.

The one-liners were almost uniformly awful as well, tho not dealbreakers. What really sunk it was the gratuitous and overbearing usage of modern alt-rock and nu-metal throughout the film. Like pouring ketchup on filet mignon.

Overall...I know they probably made a really good 2.5 hour Daredevil film, but this 90-minute one is an insult to both fans of the comic and moviegoers who will wonder who the hell X character is and why do they know Y about Z character when the movie hasn't established it at all.

5/10
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#22
I was also able to catch the screening here in Atlanta thanks to Nick. Overall, it was better than I expected. I walked in braced for the worst.

There was plenty of cheese in the movie, some of it worked, some of it didn't. In many cases it was just difficult for me to see Ben Affleck as a superhero, nor see the character do acrobatics that befit more of spiderman. Some of the leaping just seemed a bit too much.

I have never read the comic books, nor do I really know any background about the characters, so my opinion comes from watching the film and meeting the characters first hand.

The pacing was odd at times, the beginning seemed slow, but the movie got better as it went along. At first I thought it was going to be a total cheese fest but it got better. It lost some of it at the end, though.

I wish that they had delved mored into the characters of Bullseye, Elektra and Daredevil. There just didn't seem to be enough.

I did really like how they demonstrated how his senses allowed him to 'see', though.

More when it's released.
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#23
I came into this movie with average expectations and from the standpoint of someone who had never read the Daredevil comic, but was familiar with the main character, but not the supporting ones.

Though it wasn't worse than I expected it to be, I agree with most of Micah's sentiments.

Fight scenes were choppy and poorly lit, relationships weren't properly formed with the characters, etc.

As for the music, the overusage of nu-metal and crap rock was grating on the ears and made me want to dispose of the music supervisor in the same fashion as Bullseye did his first victim.

Affleck was okay as Murdock/Daredevil, but his performance was not nearly as nuanced as Maguire was as Parker/Spider-Man. I will say that it looked like he bulked up for the role. The one thing I did enjoy about his character was how they represented his view of the world, once he went blind.

Garner was the same as she always has been to me since her rise to fame when Alias began: An overappreciated actress whose real talents lie in her acrobatic fighting skills and her sometimes good looks. She almost reminds of that girlfriend on that episode of Seinfeld who looks great in certain light/angles and scary in others. I will say that she looked better in this film than she ever has before, though.

The bad guys were good, but not great. Michael Clarke Duncan was barely in the film as Kingpin, but from the looks of things, he will probably have a bigger role in the sequel. Overall, he was an ineffective villain in this film. Farrell had some good moments as Bullseye and was certainly fun to watch for his inventive weapons and kills and campiness, but overall, he was only okay. I did enjoy the use of the old-school House of Pain music when they introduced him to the audience.

I really liked Jon Favreau as Foggy Nelson. He definitely saved the film from being boring. He had some truly great lines and brought some good laughs out of the audience.

With that in mind, I give it a 6.5 out of 10. It's not a great film, but it will certainly entertain most of the masses.

Oh and the new trailer for X-Men 2 was awesome! In fact, Kelvin, the fellow chewer sitting next to me said this when the trailer ended... "Okay, Daredevil can suck now, cause that just made my evening." I couldn't have said it better.

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#24
I thought that was a Buffy-looking street person near Urich near the end of the flick... but wasn't sure. Didn't catch that Freddie was with her.

I enjoyed the movie. A bit rushed, yes, but good fun for me.
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#25
Quote:

mikah912:
90 minutes is not enough time to tell TWO origin stories, establish the ADULT Matt Murdock, his and Elektra's romances, Jack Murdock, Matt Murdock's radar sense, Kingpin, Bullseye, and decent supporting characters to boot.

This was what I gathered from the trailers. Too bad to see that confirmed.
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#26
Saw it. Loved it. Absolutely loved it. Dark entertainment with complex characterization and a reward for any die-hard Daredevil fan.

Pros: Affleck. The biggest reservations were about him and his performance. Those vanished. The smug, cocky performance he gives in seemingly every film was gone. In its place was much more nuance, respect and charm. A lot of charm. All the talk about him being physically right for the role were correct. He has stature and demanor.

Garner. She was awesome. Those accustomed to her "Alias" role will find a much more hardened performance that grows bitter by the end. Great moment after a funeral scene that is pure, cold, classic Elektra. It works. She looks great, kicks ass and inhabits her character with pathos and affection. An "Elektra" spin off would be most welcome.

Favreau. Now that was a surprise. Really funny. "Mexican Appetizer." Broke up the dark moments well.

The opening. The flashback/origin was one of the most impressive parts of the film. Moving. David Keith was dead on. The kid actually made you feel sorry for the young Matt. Better than I thought it would be and not a throwaway at all.

The fights. Dirty. Really dirty. Well done visually. The intensity was also impressive. Not a lot of holding back.

One of the most impressive qualities about the movie was the toughness it exuded. Very tough. People get beaten, stabbed, impaled. The fights are for keeps. Emotionally very brutal. No Spider-Man glee. The look is very urban and dark, which helps a great deal. Daredevil is a back-alley hero and the film doesn't forget that.

Faults: A score would have been better than the blaring soundtrack songs, but this was obviously something forced for marketing purposes. Add a score and remove the tunes and it would have added a lot more class.

Could Daredevil and Elektra's relationship been explored more? Yes. But time constraints surely lessened it. Still more effective than I thought. A little more Elektra ass-whipping would have also been welcome.

Who will love this movie most? Die-hard Daredevil readers. The tone hit the right pitch. The characterization was more than expected. The Bullseye/Elektra fight carries dialogue and imagery ripped right from Frank Miller's #181. Yes, a lot of the story — which took years to tell on the page — is compressed into this movie. But it surprisingly works. Telling the entire Elektra saga verbatim would require an HBO series. Many moments recalled "The Man Without Fear" mini series. In these regards, it's possibly the most faithful adaptation from comic page to screen ever seen. After the years of bastard comic translations it deserves reverence for that alone. It tears any Batman movie to shreds.

Closing: I'll be paying to see this again this weekend. It was that good. All the quibbles and complaints I've heard thus far are just that. Trifle and pithy. Tearing apart a movie is so easy. One person walking out actually said how much he hated the movie before he walked in and how it proved him right. Gee, I wonder why? Nearly laughed at how worried I was after reading all the online bitching beforehand. Great personal lesson learned here: ignore the dissecting Internet rants, the weird agandas people bring to a film, watch a movie and judge it on its own merits.
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#27
I liked it more than Dennis and Micah. (I'll wait until the look of shock wears off...)

Bullseye flattened me. Dreaded, absolutely dreaded Colin Farrell playing him until he showed up. House Of Pain has new cred and he made Bullseye crazy. He is crazy. Well done... More later-

8.5 out of 10
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#28
Quote:

Laugharn = Jeronimus Corneliszoon:
Quote:

mikah912:
90 minutes is not enough time to tell TWO origin stories, establish the ADULT Matt Murdock, his and Elektra's romances, Jack Murdock, Matt Murdock's radar sense, Kingpin, Bullseye, and decent supporting characters to boot.

This was what I gathered from the trailers. Too bad to see that confirmed.

Yup, Micah summed up the faults of the flick better than I could.

Overall, I think it's worth seeing if you're at all interested in the flick, but don't go in with high hopes.
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#29
I'd say more, but I don't want to venture into spoiler territory.

As far as I'm concerned, it's half of a film at best, hence my score.
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#30
Great... all along I'd read in various interviews that the film was going to clock in at 2 hours, now it's 90-odd minutes? Not good. Hopefully Fox will allow for a longer cut on the DVD.

And Mikah comparing it to The Avengers scares the hell out of me...
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#31
If I had to describe how the film was I'd say the best descriptor woulb be lean and mean. This was a movie with no fat left on the bone. I know that many are complaining that the character developement suffers and that a longer version would better serve the story. In spirit I agree with this and would very much like seeing a longer version of the film with more rounded performances. On the other hand I think the film works because it doesn't linger needlessly on exposition or is filled to brim with scenes of people in meetings like Episode 2. I remember first seein the first Superman film on TV in the original broadcast version with about 30 or 40 minutes of extra footage. I loved the film and was unaware that this was not the original cut and was not prepared by Richard Donner. Upon seeing the original cut on video and subsequently on laserdisc it took me a long time to adjust to this shorter version and bemoaned all the missin footage. As I grew older though I began to appreciate the fact that the movie flowed at a much better pace and most of the scenes in the TV version were cut for a reason. Although I still loved them they didn't really fit properly in the film and destroyed a lot of the momentum the film had. This is pretty much my view on Daredevil. The film moves at a breakneck pace. It establishes enough background and character to get the ball rolling and then it doesn't stop until the end.

This is a movie that I had ZERO expectations for and I was very apprehensive about. I was hoping that it would be decent but was ready to be utterly dissapointed. Although I've read a few Daredevil stories and have always considered him one of the best comic book characters after Batman I've never read Frank Miller's run or any of the other famous story arcs. Although I'm more aware of the character history than the average filmgoer who's never picked up a DD book I'm nowhere near the level of someone who's followed the character for years. I felt the movie was accessible to the average filmgoer though that's not really a something that concerns me. In my opinion the Electra/Matt Murdock relationship works in a total animal attraction way. They see each other and boom they're in bed. This shit happens in real life so why shouldn't it happen over the course of a few days in a movie? It's feasable. The element that is most blatantly missing in the flick is how Matt Murdock becomes Daredevil, how he meets the priest, how he sets up his base, etc., not to mention that Electra's relationship to her father is given the short end of the stick. Like I said before though, in my case the lack of extra padding helps rather than hurts.

Now, what everyone with two brain cells will agree on is the horrendous fucking soundtrack used in the movie. It is really mindboggling that they would used such utterly mediocre songs to undermine the movie. I liked what little of Graeme Revell's score was actually left on the final cut. I thought it hit the right tone and I can only imagine how the rest of the film would play with a proper score. If I'm walking down the street and I meet the music supervisor or any of the executives responsible for choosing these songs I'll administer a severe beating. None of these bands are worth two shits and they're all headed to where are they now? status at high velocity. In a perfect world the dvd will have an alternate soundtrack with the score in place of these crappy songs but that will never happen. The worst thing is that 20 years from now when you're showing this film to your kids they won't take it seriously due to the songs in the background. These caveats aside I enjoyed the movie tremendously and I much preferred it to Spider-Man. If the trailer is any indication, however, X-2 will wipe the floor with Matt Murdock's corpse. Until The Hulk anyway.

8 out of 10
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#32
What can I say, I didn't like it. The film just didn't deliver for me on any real level. My biggest complaints are the total lack of any coherent character development and the completely irrelevant soundtrack.

I'll admit that I was a little strong with my criticism after seeing the film, for which I am thankful to Nick for providing the opportunity. But coming on the relative heels of Spiderman, Daredevil just doesn't get it done.

With the vast selection of material to be drawn from it just seems a shame that the finished product comes across as a quickly put together mess. And I'm not really sure who to blame, although I know it's not Favreau.

I would like to say that my reaction is due to the fact that my expectations were too high, but I really didn't expect a whole lot of this film. Going in I was extremely concerned about Affleck, and while he didn't single handedly destroy the film, he also did virtually nothing to save it. He continues to be an actor best suited to comedic roles of very little depth.

Garner and Duncan's characters both had potential but I didn't develop any emotional investment with either. Farrell was a bit of a bright spot but even his performance is lost amid the hurried execution.

On one hand I hope the film does well so that the vaults to the comic book translations stay open. But selfishly I don't want it to be a huge hit because that conveys that it's o.k. to just slap these films together without any attempt to deliver to the fans.

Which brings me to my last problem, I'm not really sure who Daredevil was made for. In my opinion the true fans of the comics will feel slighted by the thin portrayals of the characters they have grown to love, and I suspect that those with no knowledge of the comics will not be able to identify the few nuggets of depth and meaning that actually translated into the film.

To me it's a step backwards for comic book films, which hurts us all in the end.
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#33
I think the question on everyone's lips is: what will nofate have to talk about once this movie has left the theaters? There's always Daredevil 2: Blind Harder...

(This post brought to you by the Whitehead House of Gentle Ribbing)
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#34
It's not that polarizing of a film, Nofate.

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Saw it today. Decent flick.

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It was okay. I'm not a comic fan so I'm judging it purely from a movie point of view. I felt very rushed.

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Overall, I would say about a 7 out of 10.

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The movie as a whole, was OK, in my opinion. I'd rank it just below X-Men

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Overall, it was better than I expected. I walked in braced for the worst.

There was plenty of cheese in the movie, some of it worked, some of it didn't.

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I give it a 6.5 out of 10. It's not a great film, but it was certainly entertain most the masses.

For the most part, it's C-material all of the way. We're not split about it. Most people are lukewarm to "ehhhh." With a rare bit of rave (DFJ) or utter contempt (myself) here or there to break up the monotony.

The saddest thing is that, as I said before, I think they made what was probably a pretty good, tho not exceptional Daredevil flick, but they weren't allowed to present it. I feel like Johnson really cared about Daredevil and gave it his best shot, but the music supervisor rammed those contemporary alt-nu-metal songs in there, which dates the film immediately. The studio forced him to cut huge chunks of the finished film away. And what was left was edited with all the coherence of Femme Fatale.

What's there now is a truncated abomination that exists solely to get more showings per day per screen. I'm just not willing to settle or go "Ah, it was okay..." It's NOT okay to butcher a film in that way, and as Dennis said, I feel like this movie succeeding would send exactly the wrong message to Hollywood:

We're willing to settle for choppy 90-minute Cliff Notes versions of heroes with rich histories just so long as you get them on the screen.

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#35
Caught this one last night as well with the ATL CHUD crew. I thought it was a pretty good flick. Certainly not the best...but far, far from the worse. Some good action scenes. Loved how they handled the DD 'vision'. A few inconsistencies here and there...but still a fun flick and Affleck was pretty cool as DD and the acrobatics and stunts were very cool. That guy can move across buildings as well as Spidey.

7.5 out of 10

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