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- bradito - 11-19-2017

AWhich episode does Jigsaw get all Jigsawed?


- smugbug - 11-19-2017

So far, not in E11.




Does that happen?




- bradito - 11-19-2017

AI certainly hope so!


- huntertarantino - 11-19-2017

Three episodes in. Bernthal is great. Still the best incarnation of the character. The show around him is a bowdlerized mess, a bloated cross between an 80's Cannon or Stallone joint and Sicario. Not enough violence, although that flashback in episode 3 got the ball rolling a bit. Dreadfully boring supporting characters and subplots (do I lose anything by fast-forwarding anything involving the adventures of the DHS agent and her Brett Ratner lookalike lackey?), plus the continued apparent ban on f-bombs, hurt it. Too many flashbacks, although I'm hoping they will get into some Born-style craziness.



What I do enjoy besides Bernthal: Father Phil as Rawlins. Going the Ennis route of Micro as untrustworthy sleazebag. C. Thomas Howell getting his ass kicked. Castle's stabbing/beating massacre in Afghanistan.



Favorite A+, #1 moment: the airport bathroom kill, and the other occupants thinking they're having sex. Straight from the MAX run.



I expected something more dangerous. We'll see how it plays out. I'll say this: if Marvel allowed for this story to play out as a hard-R movie with Jeremy Saulnier directing a Taylor Sheridan script, it would be great.



I'm determined to see this through, given how I dropped Luke Cage (which has the same issue of being too sprawling in a story about a singular badass) and The Defenders.




- cylon baby - 11-19-2017

Finishing Episode 6 and man, this show is sllooooooowww.



The Micro Family and Homeland subplots are video molasses.



I don't believe for one second that Frank Castle and Billy Russo served together. Russo looks like a waiter at a cheesy chic bar somewhere Uptown.



I see what the idea is, how War infects the entire society in the US, not just "over there". But the showrunners needed to pace things out. 

I did like the Crazy Vet Vs. Fake Vet fight. Really well done depiction of actual (not TV or Movie) violence.


Also the Big Bad looks like a humourless Dr. Evil.




- huntertarantino - 11-19-2017

*sees The Punisher with a flamethrower on, smiles incessantly*



*realizes it's only Episode 4, stops smiling*




- smugbug - 11-19-2017

Goddammit the dreams (of the wife) need to stop. I fucking GET IT.



Whats also annoying is him always saying how amazing she was, but all I've ever seen her is in that same dress doing nothing more than waking him up with a "hey sleepy head".  Other than that, she's been nothing more than a stereotypical military wife. If they're going to spend THIS MUCH time on a character we know is dead, than make something MORE of this character during the flashbacks.



Time wasted.




- huntertarantino - 11-19-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by smugbug View Post
 

Goddammit the dreams (of the wife) need to stop. I fucking GET IT.



After this, I'll never complain about the exact same Dr. Amp scene in Twin Peaks getting played twice. It's like a YouTube shitpost without a trace of humor.




- kyle reese - 11-19-2017

ABetter writing and directing would have been the simplest way to improve this show. Both aspects are a joke compared to Daredevil.

Afghanistan story was so cheap and shabby looking. That's when I mentally checked out.

Fast forwarding through every FBI scene up to ep6, pretty sure I didn't miss anything. On this kind of show, you know the plot will be verbally rehashed by different characters countless times, so what's the point.

It's like the later seasons of 24, minus the ticking clock urgency, and now Jack Bauer has brain damage from a huffing addiction.

I'll save the rest for when I'm battling insomnia and don't have the attention span for something good.


- huntertarantino - 11-19-2017

Yeah, I've done the last three as background noise.




- bradito - 11-19-2017

AIt's almost like you guys are punishing yourselves.


- huntertarantino - 11-19-2017

Oh fuck, this woods shootout is actually pretty cool! It's like if Gamby got his Ewok traps to work on Vice Principals.




- smugbug - 11-20-2017

Me during that fight scene on E13:



Oh, fuuuuuuck.....goddamn geezus  fucking....chirst....CHRIST.... SHiiiiiiIIIIITE....



Rinse...repeat...




- bradito - 11-20-2017

A...jigsaw?


- ska oreo - 11-20-2017

AYeah...I strongly disagree with you guys. Like, violently. Granted I'm only 4 episodes in, but I'm generally enjoying the slower pace here. And liked that it's more focused on getting in the mindset of Castle instead of getting to the "badass" parts.


- Evi - 11-20-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle Reese View Post

Fast forwarding through every FBI scene up to ep6, pretty sure I didn't miss anything. On this kind of show, you know the plot will be verbally rehashed by different characters countless times, so what's the point.


The FBI scenes are the most useless. It is literally 13 episodes of people trying to figure out stuff the audience already knows.




- cylon baby - 11-20-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ska Oreo View Post

Yeah...I strongly disagree with you guys. Like, violently. Granted I'm only 4 episodes in, but I'm generally enjoying the slower pace here. And liked that it's more focused on getting in the mindset of Castle instead of getting to the "badass" parts.


Keep watching and let us know if you maintain that opinion through the rest of the series.


Imma gonna call bullshit on the ending of E7:



The Frank Castle we all know and love would have either 1) figured that Agent Orange's SAFE HOUSE would have bullet proof glass windows, and loaded his Sniper Rifle with appropriate ammo, or 2) once he realized it was bullet proof but took some damage, he would have just kept shooting. I mean the dumb ass was just standing there daring Castle to fire again!



- simbob - 11-21-2017

AWell this is easily the best of the Netflix Marvel shows. The best directed of the bunch, although outside of the Daredevil shows that isn't saying much, and it has none of the eye roll inducing hue-maher they feed Fulton Reed. This isn't to say The Punisher is humorless, it's just the funny stuff in Punisher is funny, where the Froggy stuff in Daredevil mostly makes me wish they'd stop.

The first episode of this had me expecting a totally different show though, and as much as I enjoyed this, I think it would have worked a whole lot better if that was a formula they'd of stayed with. That first episode had me thinking the whole season would be like that, basically like the Golgo 13 anime tv show. A show where you're mostly following around the criminals, The Punisher is kind of a background element, and from time to time we'll drop in on the police after him. Even with that formate they could easily till the exact same story they're telling here, only difference is it'd change things up more from episode to episode, and it'd always lead to some kind of set piece. The bomber guy's story was interesting, it also could have been done in one episode if they kept that first episode's formate and the season played like Golgo 13.

Was actually surprised by the violence in this. This is probably the first of these to shot stuff in a rated R kind of way, where the camera doesn't cut away a frame before the impact, or the violence happens off-screen. This is the first one of these that actually felt like an R rated thing, despite still not having nudity and nobody saying shit like fuck or cunt. Even the not nudity I was surprised to see get pushed as far as it did in a Marvel thing.

There were a few things at struck me as kind of odd. Moments when it'd do something from another movie and not quite stick the landing. At the moment though the only one I can really think of is the Thanksgiving Dream which is a take on American Werewolf in London, but lacks the impact of the London scene. Think part of what kills that scene here is it slows it down with the march, where in AWiL it just hits you can keeps going.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiEj7KUDhjA[/video]

But overall I really enjoyed this. Even despite the weird trend of these Netflix Marvel shows taking a whole season to build up to somethings insignificant. It's okay if you give Punisher his skull symbol at the start.

Was also kind of reminded of Resident Evil Vendetta at times. Made me wish Punisher had a bayonet on his gun.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvMWEsejG2Q[/video]

Billy having that wrist blade like he does kind of makes me surprised there wasn't ever a wire fight like in Marathon Man.


- virtanen - 11-21-2017

This series would've worked better with a much looser episode arc. More stuff like the first ep, where someone has a problem and in the end Frank buries said problem in cement. Kind of like Quantum Leap with a sociopath with guns.




- simbob - 11-21-2017

A[quote name="AtomTastic" url="/community/t/155441/the-punisher-netflix/250#post_4407507"]Why can't they just make straight to streaming movies for these things? It would have to be cheaper to produce 2 hours instead of 16, right?
[/quote]

Only if they're making little low budget movies. Even if they were spending something like $2 million an episode, it'd still be less than Punisher War Zone cost back in 2008.


- ska oreo - 11-21-2017

A[quote name="Virtanen" url="/community/t/155441/the-punisher-netflix/250#post_4409453"]This series would've worked better with a much looser episode arc. More stuff like the first ep, where someone has a problem and in the end Frank buries said problem in cement. Kind of like Quantum Leap with a sociopath with guns.
[/quote]

Yeah, no. That's one of the worst versions of this show. Absolute worst is Frank dealing i any capacity with superheroes. Having The Punisher turn into some baddie-of-the-week bullshit that descends into exactly what makes people uncomfortable about the character. I know I'm nowhere near the end, and I might hit that mid season slump that seems to hurt the marvel Netflix shows, I'm enjoying where the show is going.


- virtanen - 11-21-2017

I'd prefer any version with less scenes of FBI agents talking in office rooms. I take you didn't like the first episode then?




- Shreds - 11-21-2017

AI'd prefer any version where there isn't a horrible love triangle between the Punisher, Micro and Micro's wife.


- Evi - 11-21-2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtanen View Post
 

This series would've worked better with a much looser episode arc. More stuff like the first ep, where someone has a problem and in the end Frank buries said problem in cement. Kind of like Quantum Leap with a sociopath with guns.



Exactly, it needed to embrace the pulp and move closer to the pace of something like Banshee or Spartacus.



I'm on episode 11 and while it's a marked improvement, I just feel somewhat disengaged from he show. At this point I'm finishing it out of obligation more than anything.




- Shreds - 11-21-2017

Every time I hear the theme tune I just think they made a slightly more dour version of the Hap and Leonard theme.





Now there's a show that needs only 6 episodes to set up and resolve a mystery.


Hap and Leonard are more fun to hang out with than Frank and Micro too.




- MrSaxon - 11-21-2017

I need to check Netflix to see if Hap and Leonard is on there. I've only heard good things about that show.



Quote:


Originally Posted by Virtanen View Post
 

This series would've worked better with a much looser episode arc. More stuff like the first ep, where someone has a problem and in the end Frank buries said problem in cement. Kind of like Quantum Leap with a sociopath with guns.



I like this idea. Perhaps the Strike Back model would have worked: Several two-part stories, each loosely connected to a larger overarching plot that gets resolved in the final two episodes.



It definitely needed more punishing.




- virtanen - 11-21-2017

It pains me that I'm currently drowning in work and family stuff, since I need to see Quantum Leap's opening credits re-cut with Punisher footage.




- Shreds - 11-21-2017

One episode left.



Jesus christ those fucking wife flashbacks.




- huntertarantino - 11-21-2017

Got to episode 9 last night. My review of this show:





Punisher is, and always will be, one of my favorite Marvel characters. This should should be pulsating, vibrant, and brutal as all hell. A little like Taxi Driver as an 80's Stallone vehicle, mixed with the playful chaos of John Wick and the uncompromising pathos of Sicario. They're only trying "uncompromising chaos," and lordy do I hope these last episodes are as good as people say.



My other reaction:





Also: how does DHS have jurisdiction on a military coverup? Shouldn't this be an FBI or CIA job? It was always the latter in the comics.




- bluelouboyle - 11-21-2017

A[quote name="MrSaxon" url="/community/t/155441/the-punisher-netflix/300#post_4409505"]
I like this idea. Perhaps the Strike Back model would have worked: Several two-part stories, each loosely connected to a larger overarching plot that gets resolved in the final two episodes. 

It definitely needed more punishing. 
[/quote]

HAP & LEONARD seasons 1 & 2 are on Amazon Prime here in the UK. Only watched two episodes but digging it so far.

In fact for TV I think Amazon is better than Netflix, at least in the UK. All, the AMC, Starz and Spike shows.


- MrSaxon - 11-21-2017

Ah, cool. I actually have Amazon Prime. I accidentally agreed to their free trial whilst ordering some cups a while back, ended up watching a ton of films, and kept the subscription. I'll check it out when I get some time.




- JMurdoch - 11-21-2017

AI'm up to episode 9 and aside from the sub-plot about Micro's son, I'm really enjoying this. Performances are good all around. I especially like the interactions between Micro and Frank. I understand the complaints about its slow and deliberate pacing but if this tempo isn't your thing the War Zone movie is always available.


- bradito - 11-21-2017

AI'm three episodes in and I feel like I've been watching this show for 10 years.


- kyle reese - 11-21-2017

AI swear the shit with Frank flirting on Micro's wife is right out of the script for a porn movie.

Imagine the writers and showrunners sitting in a room, with the season mapped out on a whiteboard. "This is a good idea."


- huntertarantino - 11-21-2017

RUUUUUSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! I'M GONNA WATCH YOUUUUUUU DIEEEEEE!!!!!



Anyone who doesn't think Bernthal is doing Stallone is wrong.



It took eleven episodes, but Danger Close, a.k.a. Episode 11, satisfied. We finally got a stupid-awesome, realistically painful shootout out of this fucker. It's not the goofball shit that War Zone pulls, but this was me the whole time he was shooting and stabbing Jigs... I mean Russo's men: