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CW's ARROW Discussion Thread

Please. Laurel could've taken him.

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AI never thought I'd say it but Arrow is starting to annoy me. First off the resolution to Ras fight mid season and now the stuff in this episode is just baws. They are blatantly ripping Batman plots now and I don't know much about ATOM but I'm pretty sure he's not a faux Ironman.
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-You know, I think after this season I'll be done with the Keep Malcolm Merlyn Alive At All Costs Show. When Laurel fucking Lance is the voice of reason...



-Likewise, I thought this was supposed to be a Nolanesque DC Comics universe. I know they have the Flash over on Tuesday nights, but how does Ray Palmer flying around in a jetpack at all fit with Arrow's aesthetic? How is it less ridiculous than him shrinking?



-Like, i could buy a M.A.N.T.I.S. thing where he just has this exoskeleton that lets him run really fast, lift heavy weights, etc. That's not so far outside the realm of reality. But as soon as he starts flying around like a cheapo Iron Man, like, dude...



-On this show, has the League of Assassins ever done anything really bad? It seems like their main objective has been policing their own and punishing a rogue member who killed hundreds of people? What I'm trying to say is--when Ollie and Diggle go into their house and murder a few people (to stop them from murdering someone else, natch), I feel like they're killing people who are just doing their jobs.



-But if you're really concerned about comics canon, I guess we finally have Ollie being as big a d-bag as his comic book counterpart. Like, isn't he doing the equivalent of going into Texas and freeing all the rapists and serial killers on death row? While murdering a few prison guards? And for the 'real reason' of getting his edge back? Like, okay, if it's that big a deal--retire. Haven't we established that the city can get by perfectly well without him? He's finished off the list, Deathstroke's locked up, it seems like the main threat this season is the League of Assassins, and they would've been out of the picture if Ollie hadn't poked the hornet's nest.



-Like, Ollie's so worried about Thea 'losing a piece of her soul' if she's in any way responsible for her abusive, mass-murdering father dying. So, if Malcolm were a serial killer (well, more of a serial killer), she turned him into the cops, and the judge gave him the death penalty, that would count as Thea murdering him? And the alternative is to leave him free to keep murdering people at his leisure? Cuz he's a serial killer?



-And wasn't the entire last season about Ollie getting over being a killer and kinda being able to lead a normal life now that he'd stopped murdering people? Hell, Diggle's killed people, he's getting married, he has a cute kid, motherfucker seems fine!



-Oh, but Merlyn is 'her own father!' That totally makes it different. Never mind that he's a mass murderer, that he didn't raise her, that he killed the man who did, that from the second he made contact with her he was manipulating and abusing her--he's her bio-daddy! That gives him a free pass!



-Like, if you found out that Osama bin Laden was your biological father, would you warn him about Seal Team Six coming or would you go "well, fuck me, but still, dude's an asshole. He's got it coming"?

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Well she gave it the old College try.



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So there's an Atom/Black Canary/Captain Cold/Firestorm spin-off in the works, apparently.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TB Rhine View Post
 

So there's an Atom/Black Canary/Captain Cold/Firestorm spin-off in the works, apparently.


I'm still trying to figure out if that news is legit or not.



Because unless it's an anthology show, that makes...no sense at all.



Though if it IS an anthology show...it could be kinda awesome, and open the door to a LOT more characters in the CWDCU.

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It's legit. The producers and cast confirmed it on social media.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Woodward View Post
 

It's legit. The producers and cast confirmed it on social media.


Huh.  Still sounds weird unless it's an anthology.  I guess we'll see.



As far as Arrow goes, I suppose we can now firmly state that Oliver is the official Batman of the CWDCU?



Wonder if we'll have Ra's obsessing over trying to get Nyssa to sleep with him next....

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They turned the Atom into a low rent Iron Man? Ugh. I know they don't have the budget for shrinking effects but why not just have him be John Irons or STRIPE if they wanted a power armor character?

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I assumed the Power Armor was also a shrinking machine.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbrother View Post
 

They turned the Atom into a low rent Iron Man? Ugh. I know they don't have the budget for shrinking effects but why not just have him be John Irons or STRIPE if they wanted a power armor character?


I thought I would be deflated by an Iron Man clone, but actually, I liked how the scene was handled!



Apparently, however, people prone to developing super suits are prone to begin super dangerous flying excursions without putting the suits through rigorous testing first.  This might be why so few super-suit powered heroes are around: they kill themselves off by failing to have a rigorous protocol in place for new products.

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This week on Arrow:



Back from six months in the Mojave desert testing propulsion systems, Ray Palmer spends a week in an anechoic chamber testing the ATOM helmet for EM interference.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by TB Rhine View Post
 

I assumed the Power Armor was also a shrinking machine.



I'd be surprised if that doesn't turn up somewhere.  The CWDCU has been pretty good about figuring out ways to keep things relatively accurate.  I suppose we'll see, though they may explain it away with the easter egg namedrop they used back when Palmer first described the suit:  That he's really more OMAC than ATOM.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by stelios View Post
 

This week on Arrow:



Back from six months in the Mojave desert testing propulsion systems, Ray Palmer spends a week in an anechoic chamber testing the ATOM helmet for EM interference.



*CHORTLES HEARTILY*

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New PaleyFest Sizzle Trailer



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Afelix, That is...Awesome!
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Shark jumped?

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-Ollie: I will do whatever it takes to protect my little sister, even from the guilt that would come from being tangentially involved in her father's death! Nothing bad must happen to Thea!



Ollie: Hey, Thea, mind if your abusive supervillain father shacks up with you for a few days? I can't keep him locked up in the Arrowcave because it's too soon in our inexplicable love affair for us to move in together.



-I swear to Christ, I am giving up on this show if Malcolm Merlyn is still alive at the end of this season. It's fucking ridiculous.



-Ra's: Mr. Queen, you must become the new Ra's al Ghul!



Ollie: So, wait, you're immortal AND part of a long line of Ra's al Ghuls? How needlessly overcomplicated!



Ra's: You can, of course, order the entire League to refrain from killing.



Ollie: So, if I wanted, I could just take over the League, then order everyone to help little old ladies across the street?



Ra's: I... suppose...



Ollie: Effectively ending an entire terrorist organization or whatever it is you guys do. Just in, like, five minutes. Which is more crime prevention than I could ever do as the Arrow.



Ra's: Well... yeah... but absolute power will corrupt you into--



Ollie: As the new head of the League of Assassins, I declare we are now the League of Low-Income Housing! Let's get building!



Ra's: Simpsons did it.



-Okay, so is Nandu Panda just a half hour's drive from Star City? You have people going back and forth between the two seemingly in the same day. I kinda thought it was supposed to be in Asia, right? The Middle East somewhere?



-Look, I know Felicity is a good hacker, but Ray can't hack the police database in two weeks and she can do it in two minutes? That's like there being a really good surgeon and the best surgeon ever, and the really good surgeon needs to perform seven surgeries over a series of months to rehabilitate someone, and the best surgeon ever can do it just by flicking their ear. SKILLS DON'T WORK THAT WAY.



-Ra's should not be dressing up as the Arrow to frame him. It's undignified. He should be ordering someone else to do it. Speaking of--



-Thug: I can't believe it! Some guy dressed as the Arrow killed all my friends!



Thug 2: The Arrow is killing people again!?



Thug: No, just some guy dressed as him. We all saw the Arrow on TV, and this guy looked and sounded completely different. He had some weird British accent instead of shouting all the time.



-What was with Ra's Green Goblining Ollie line for line? Show, don't rip off the Raimi Spider-Man movies. That's The Flash's job!



-So now Nyssa is training Laurel? How many fan-favorites are we going to throw to Hurricane Laurel in an attempt to make her a workable character?



-Laurel: Daddy, can you stop being angry at me for lying to you about your daughter's death? It's really upsetting me! It's not like I was pissed that my dead sister was still alive because she'd slept with my boyfriend!

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Oliver is a complete moron for not taking up the offer.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by TB Rhine View Post
 

Shark jumped?



This was kind of the last straw for me.  Unless they go a whole different direction, done at the end of this season.  Was there a talent drain over to The Flash?

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WHAT IS THE POINT OF THE FLASHBACKS THIS SEASON? They've established Katana and Dude Katana, but those two haven't done anything!

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Quote:

Originally Posted by avian View Post
 

WHAT IS THE POINT OF THE FLASHBACKS THIS SEASON? They've established Katana and Dude Katana, but those two haven't done anything!


The flashback story feels finished!  They escaped, faced Deathstroke in the present, absolutely nothing of any interest has been established in the slightest with the flashbacks.

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Oliver, I know you're all moral code and whatnot. But you should also be a businessman about this. Remember what happened when Angel took over Wolfram & Hart in the show? He was playing a long game to defeat the forces of evil FROM WITHIN.



Imagine having unlimited resources. Why, you could set up a goddamn Arrow franchise right in the middle of Starling City, and every other fricking city, too. You could do good things you could not dream of. I'm not saying it's perfect, but Felicity needs to get off her high horse and think globally. There's so much you can do with it.

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Felicity is a sanctimonious wet blanket.

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And Ollie's a patronizing dick.

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*Pokes head through door from The Flash party next door, with a Professor Zoom energy drink in one hand*


*Sees lots of unhappy Arrow people sitting around looking depressed*


*Hears "Let's Do The Time Warp" on the loudspeakers behind him and goes back to The Flash*

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The trouble is, Arrow was objectively a MUCH better show than Flash in its first 2 seasons (or much better than Flash has been so far, at any rate). But this year just feels totally aimless, and now that's been compounded by a series of devastatingly stupid creative (and character) decisions.



Ollie gets run through with a sword, then kicked off the top of a mountain... and next week they're all like, "Eh. It was cold. You hit an outcropping. 'Sall good, man." Now, I know there are plenty of people speculating about a Lazarus Pit reveal at the end of the season or whatever, but honestly, at this point it's too late. If there's some other shoe waiting to drop, the show needs to at least be foreshadowing that, but they're not. A twist like that would feel totally out of left field and totally unearned now. This is Storytelling 101, people.



Flashforward: Ollie is given the chance to take over the League of Assassins. Now yes, I know, they're a corrupt organization and all that, but even if Oliver DOESN'T succeed in reforming them from within, changing them into the League of Good Samaritans or whatever, there's still a lot of good he could do by utilizing their resources, and any which way you slice it, a League with Oliver in charge is going to be better than one led by Snooty McBritishpa-- err, "Ra's al Ghul." AND it would enable him to neutralize the threat against Thea's life as well.



Now this one's a toughie, because having Oliver join the League would fundamentally alter the DNA of the show, and I knew there was no way on Earth it was going to happen, just on that basis. This is what some writers and TV reviewers like to refer to as "Schmuck's Bait" -- teasing us with a development that can't possibly happen, because if it did then for all intents and purposes the show wouldn't be the show anymore. Sam Becket can't Leap home, the Voyager crew can't get back to the Alpha Quadrant, and Gilligan and co. can't get off that damn island. That being said, there are ways to get out of a situation like this that don't involve forcing your characters to make objectively wrong and counter-intuitive decisions that undermine the viewer's faith in those characters and in the creative direction of the show as a whole. Oliver could've taken Ra's deal, only to have Waller or somebody bust in and arrest everybody, effectively hitting the reset button. He could've taken it, only to return home and find Nyssa balls deep in the business of torturing and murdering Thea, following the latter's ill-advised confession... forcing him to kill Nyssa in order to protect Thea, thereby forcing Ra's to rescind his offer and declare war on Starling City once and for all. They could even -- imagine this -- have taken the high road, and not chosen to tease us with something they knew they could never possibly pay off on in the first place.



Add in boring flashbacks and a collective eight hours of boring Felicity and Faux Iron Man flirting, and this season really has little left to show for itself.

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AI stopped reading your post the moment you said arrow was better than the flash. Arrow is almost embarrassing to watch while Flash is great. How anyone could think the opposite is mind blowing.
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Why not have Ra's be impressed by Ollie's fighting and revive him in the Lazarus Pits? That would be better than him being impressed by Ollie's sheer dumb luck in surviving. You could do a storyline where Ollie needs the Pits to stay alive and thus is forced to work for Ra's. Have Ollie forced to assassinate people and fight Team Arrow. That's waaaaaaay more dramatic than whatever it is they're doing.



Why not have Nyssa revive Ollie in the Lazarus Pits because she doesn't believe his bullshit about killing Sara and wants the truth? Then she and Ollie team up against the wrath of Ra's al Ghul? Waaaaaaay more dramatic.



Why not have Merlyn plant some kind of implant in Thea that will go off if his heart stops beating. That makes way more sense than him having magical hypnotism juice to force Thea into doing what he wants. And it's a far better reason for Ollie to constantly have to save Merlyn.



Why bring in Ray Palmer? It wasn't so unbearable when they stealth-piloted Barry Allen, because he was only around for a few episodes, but Ray is always there and he has nothing to do with the plot besides giving Felicity a side piece.



Why show the Lazarus Pits' power by just having a talking head scene where Ra's TELLS the audience they make him immortal, then show him healing a minor cut? Why not SHOW how they heal a dead/dying Ollie?



Why not have Malcolm and Thea join/rejoin the League, with Ra's plotting a new attack on Star City?



Why not kill Laurel instead of throwing Sara under a bus to try to sell this character to us yet again?



Why not make the flashbacks have something to do with Ra's and the League?



Why not make Amanda Waller/Suicide Squad the villains this year? The flashbacks seem to be all about what a bitch Waller is; is that all just build-up for season 4?

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So Merlyn's plan was to kill Sara in such a way as to force Ollie to fight and kill Ra's, thus getting him off the hook. But wouldn't that just put Nyssa in charge? She wouldn't buy that Ollie did it, and in fact she thought that Merlyn did it, so wouldn't she just send every single assassin after him as soon as she's sworn in?

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AFreeman, Arrow...IS Better than The Flash.
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AThe "gritty" appeal of Arrow has pulled the wool over your eyes fleed. Not even felicity can save the show.
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AFreeman, Arrow doesn't need...Saving. It has been picked up for...Season 4. Arrow remains the...Best Show on TV.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by avian View Post
 

Why not have Ra's be impressed by Ollie's fighting and revive him in the Lazarus Pits? That would be better than him being impressed by Ollie's sheer dumb luck in surviving. You could do a storyline where Ollie needs the Pits to stay alive and thus is forced to work for Ra's. Have Ollie forced to assassinate people and fight Team Arrow. That's waaaaaaay more dramatic than whatever it is they're doing.



Why not have Nyssa revive Ollie in the Lazarus Pits because she doesn't believe his bullshit about killing Sara and wants the truth? Then she and Ollie team up against the wrath of Ra's al Ghul? Waaaaaaay more dramatic.



Why not have Merlyn plant some kind of implant in Thea that will go off if his heart stops beating. That makes way more sense than him having magical hypnotism juice to force Thea into doing what he wants. And it's a far better reason for Ollie to constantly have to save Merlyn.



Why bring in Ray Palmer? It wasn't so unbearable when they stealth-piloted Barry Allen, because he was only around for a few episodes, but Ray is always there and he has nothing to do with the plot besides giving Felicity a side piece.



Why show the Lazarus Pits' power by just having a talking head scene where Ra's TELLS the audience they make him immortal, then show him healing a minor cut? Why not SHOW how they heal a dead/dying Ollie?



Why not have Malcolm and Thea join/rejoin the League, with Ra's plotting a new attack on Star City?



Why not kill Laurel instead of throwing Sara under a bus to try to sell this character to us yet again?



Why not make the flashbacks have something to do with Ra's and the League?



Why not make Amanda Waller/Suicide Squad the villains this year? The flashbacks seem to be all about what a bitch Waller is; is that all just build-up for season 4?



Because they are boring writers. The show has already staked its claim and is now on maintenance mode.



Watch for the same to happen a couple of seasons in The Flash.

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There's some speculation that the trainee assassin that Ra's gives instruction to (and that the camerawork is all "THIS PERSON IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOU THINK") might actually be a resurrected Sara. Possibly with memory loss due to how long it took to get her to the Lazarus Pit.

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