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Trumpocalypse Now
Dennis Rodman is on the news, wearing a Make America Great Again hat, talking about a "political" summit and how he doesn't want to take credit for it.

What a time to be alive.
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Did someone ask if he liked Double Team?
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https://mobile.twitter.com/BenjySarlin/s...7704099841

   
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(06-11-2018, 08:59 PM)Neil Spurn Wrote: Thanks Trudeau!

Can't speak directly for Justin, but as a Canuck, you're welcome!
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In this big news day, it's important not to forget that Sessions ordered immigration judges to stop granting asylum to most victims of domestic abuse and gang violence, a move that will block tens of thousands of victims from safety.
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I've long noted that the loudest "Christians" are actually Old Testament to the bone.
"I'd rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth."--Steve McQueen
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(06-11-2018, 11:27 PM)Iron Maiden Wrote: In this big news day, it's important not to forget that Sessions ordered immigration judges to stop granting asylum to most victims of domestic abuse and gang violence, a move that will block tens of thousands of victims from safety.

See when I hear shit like this what keeps me optimistic is knowing that the next Admin. with an actual soul that won't have an AG that resembles a plantation owner from AnteBellum Georgia, will be able to undo the toxic, blatant human rights violations that these assholes are committing.
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I really hope you're right.
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I heard this morning that McCain and Graham have both tried to reassure out allies that the US still stands with them. Its too little and too late for them to separate themselves from Trump. They didn't do in during the election and they have voted with him time and again. I'LL give McCain credit for voting No on repealing the ACA, but I won't forget that he voted yes on Trump's tax plan. They have always enabled Trump and they will continue to do so.
I've got good news and I've got bad news. The bad news is that I have lost my way. The good news is that I'm way ahead of schedule.
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(06-11-2018, 09:38 PM)Andy Bain II Wrote: Dennis Rodman is on the news, wearing a Make America Great Again hat, talking about a "political" summit and how he doesn't want to take credit for it.

What a time to be alive.

Rodman and Kanye should do a rap album together while both wearing their MAGA caps. 

The album should be called "Dumb and Dumber-er".

"Jesus Christ! You've got some problems! First the balls, now my death!" - Daniel Craig

 
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(06-11-2018, 02:17 PM)mrbananagrabber Wrote: I had a migraine all weekend. What did I miss? Did Trump give California to the North Koreans?

Dude! Don't give Trump any ideas!
I've got good news and I've got bad news. The bad news is that I have lost my way. The good news is that I'm way ahead of schedule.
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So, PR dog and pony show win for Trump.  Increased legitimacy for Un.   Lessening of sanctions with no firm commitment to anything concrete with regard to how or when they will go about the denuclearization process (details to be negotiated by Mike Pompeo at a later date.  Sure.)  Also, who knows how many backroom financial deals that will likely enrich Trump and be favorable to China. I am reminded of this post I made before...

(11-08-2017, 11:11 PM)bailey Wrote:

This was my conspiracy theory months ago.  Trump goes to China, sells out American interests for years to come to secure permission for a war in North Korea so the administration can survive long enough to...


Only just swap getting permission for a war against North Korea with a phony ass peace process.
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So, how long until Trump eradicates any good will he’s gained from this “win”? A day? A week? Until the actual statement is released?
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He gave North Korea everything they wanted and accepted nothing in return. Anyone calling this a win is a fool, which means there are probably 3 front page stories up at NYT on how this is a win.
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Haven't looked at the NYT coverage yet, but the WaPo analysis and reporting hasn't been fawning or laudatory. (The opposite, in fact: both analysis pieces I read this morning repeatedly called out that Cheeto lavished praise on a dictator known for his assassination and propaganda policies while having just shit all over longtime allies at the G7 meeting.)

The closest I read was a few experts saying that maybe a top-down approach is the only way to go, as decades of bottom-up negotiations went nowhere. But even those experts couched those comments with saying we'll have to wait and see if anything substantive actually results from all of this.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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I haven't dug in, but I'm curious if anyone has done a line by line comparison of this North Korea mummery with the Iran deal, and then compared and contrasted the reactions to them and the political reception and response.

So, broadly speaking and taking this at face value: denuclearisation of the peninsula, which means not just N Korea shutting down whatever infrastructure it has in place, but also the US potentially withdrawing the nuclear protection from S Korea, in return for easing sanctions. Sounds like a familiar deal and I'm surprised you'd pull out of one but happily sign up to another on the same terms, but hey, whatevs. Let's run it through - pull out troops and remove nuclear shield puts S Korea in the position of having a historically not predictable neighbour with massive conventional forces backed up by an expansionist, nationalist proto-superpower. Okay, good luck with that, chaps. Oh, and let's say N Korea doesn't comply? Judging by the response to Iran, it's all about putting sanctions back in place. Except, the one big difference with this situation is that China is practically in charge of enforcing sanctions against N Korea. You want to reinstate them? Fuck you pay me, says Xi.

He's just handed the South China Sea to the Chinese without a fight. He's itching to tell Europe to look after itself - a thing I am sure he will love because the EU is anathema to a nationalist, and hawks will love because no one European country is a player by itself on the world stage so fuck them. he doesn't like underwriting any foreign country's defence, unless it's Israel (and you can fairly argue whether that is an appropriate trade for the way European Jewry was treated for centuries, but it is certainly an anomaly). US, Russia and China carve it up, aided and abetted by European nationalists who confuse ideology for interest.

Fuck these people.
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Trump Lobbied For Peace By Showing Kim Jong-Un A Fake Movie Trailer On An iPad
https://www.pedestrian.tv/news/trump-kim...e-trailer/




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Trump not only ending exercises with South Korea but calling them "provocative" as well sure makes it hard to restart them when North Korea does some more terrible things in the future.

Kim Jong-Un is officially legitimized and one of his biggest grievances is pretty much off the table. 

I'm not exactly a war hawk, but I don't see how Trump's decision brings anything but impossible choices in the future.
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There's quite a bit of evidence that Kim is a mass murderer, like his father before him. Legitimizing his regime is a loss before any deal is even considered.

But really the only surprise is that Drumpf was ever anything less than a fawning fanboy towards him, as Kim is clearly in the mold of the guys Drumpf idolizes: Duterte and Putin. This meeting probably marks the first time the moldy orange has gotten a half chub in years.
Gamertag: Tweakee
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And what if Kim doesn't follow through on his promises?

“Honestly, I think he’s going to do these things. I may be wrong,” Trump said. “I may stand before you in six months and say, ‘hey, I was wrong.’ I don’t know that I’ll admit that but I’ll find some kind of an excuse.”

https://thinkprogress.org/trump-kim-jong...585d8de91/
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So, let me get this straight:
- We gave Kim everything that he wanted.
- We got nothing in return

And...this is a 'big win'?
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I haven't verified these dates but....yeah. We literally walked away with nothing.

1985: North Korea signs Nuclear NonProliferation Treaty
1992: North Korea signs historic agreement to halt nuclear program! (#1)
1994: North Korea signs historic agreement to halt nuclear program! (#2)
1999: North Korea signs historic agreement to end missile tests
2000: North Korea signs historic agreement to reunify Korea! Nobel Peace Prize is awarded
2005: North Korea declares support for "denuclearization" of Korean peninsula
2005: North Korea signs historic agreement to halt nuclear program and "denuclearize"! (#3)
2006: North Korea declares support for "denuclearization" of Korean peninsula
2006: North Korea again support for "denuclearization" of Korean peninsula
2007: North Korea signs historic agreement to halt nuclear program! (#4)
2007: N&S Korea sign agreement on reunification
2010: North Korea commits to ending Korean War
2010: North Korea announces commitment to "denuclearize"
2010: North Korea again announces commitment to "denuclearize"
2011: North Korea announces plan to halt nuclear and missile tests
2012: North Korea announces halt to nuclear program
2015: North Korea offers to halt nuclear tests
2016: North Korea again announces support for "denuclearization"
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
Reply
(06-12-2018, 10:53 AM)Judas Booth Wrote: So, let me get this straight:
- We gave Kim everything that he wanted.
- We got nothing in return

And...this is a 'big win'?

I guess its a win if you thought the only real threat here was that the US may need to go to war to stop the NK nuclear program. I could see Trump thinking that. And I'm sure his dumbass acolytes could give two shits about instability in the region and the quality of life of non-white people half a planet away.
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Trump is a spiv. A cowboy builder. If he were doing building work at your home, you'd have kicked him off site. It astonishes me that the world is so corrupt and self-absorbed that not only has this attention seeking arsehole made a career out of being an attention seeking arsehole, but he somehow managed to convince enough of the electorate of the most powerful nation on earth to install him in the top job.

I mean I manage to get through my days basically sort of forgetting how much of a complete clusterfuck this is, then the global press sticks his bloated mug all over the front pages and validates every decision this malicious pustulent poppinjay has ever made.

Christ on a bike.
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(06-12-2018, 11:13 AM)MichaelM Wrote: I haven't verified these dates but....yeah. We literally walked away with nothing.

1985: North Korea signs Nuclear NonProliferation Treaty
1992: North Korea signs historic agreement to halt nuclear program! (#1)
1994: North Korea signs historic agreement to halt nuclear program! (#2)
1999: North Korea signs historic agreement to end missile tests
2000: North Korea signs historic agreement to reunify Korea! Nobel Peace Prize is awarded
2005: North Korea declares support for "denuclearization" of Korean peninsula
2005: North Korea signs historic agreement to halt nuclear program and "denuclearize"! (#3)
2006: North Korea declares support for "denuclearization" of Korean peninsula
2006: North Korea again support for "denuclearization" of Korean peninsula
2007: North Korea signs historic agreement to halt nuclear program! (#4)
2007: N&S Korea sign agreement on reunification
2010: North Korea commits to ending Korean War
2010: North Korea announces commitment to "denuclearize"
2010: North Korea again announces commitment to "denuclearize"
2011: North Korea announces plan to halt nuclear and missile tests
2012: North Korea announces halt to nuclear program
2015: North Korea offers to halt nuclear tests
2016: North Korea again announces support for "denuclearization"

details....

Chronology of U.S.-North Korean Nuclear and Missile Diplomacy
I used to be with "it", but then they changed what "it" was. Now, what I'm with isn't "it", and what's "it" seems weird and scary to me.   -Grandpa Simpson
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(06-12-2018, 11:16 AM)fuzzy dunlop Wrote:
(06-12-2018, 10:53 AM)Judas Booth Wrote: So, let me get this straight:
- We gave Kim everything that he wanted.
- We got nothing in return

And...this is a 'big win'?

I guess its a win if you thought the only real threat here was that the US may need to go to war to stop the NK nuclear program.  I could see Trump thinking that.  And I'm sure his dumbass acolytes could give two shits about instability in the region and the quality of life of non-white people half a planet away.

Exactly. If a war is actually avoided, that will will be the spin going forward when the dust settles despite how hawkish these fuckers usually are. "What, you libs want a war over Asia?You want WW3?! He made a tough call but it gave us peace!" etc, etc. It doesn't matter if we pull out troops. It doesn't matter if Kim ends up dominating the South because he has nukes/bio weapons and the South doesn't. It doesn't matter if the South goes for nuclear weapons too for protection or if they run to China for help instead of us. These people will convince themselves that the Republicans and Trump didn't lose South Korea and eventually the South China Sea.
"You want a vision of the future?Imagine a boot stomping on a human face.....forever."
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"These guys are pros, Michael. They're gonna push the tension 'till the last possible moment before they strip."

 
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A friend of mine works for a US-Asia foreign policy think tank (probably would've ended up at the State Dept if 2016 had gone differently), and here's his (informal) take on the whole Singapore summit:

Quote:Ugh. Really legitimately concerned about what's gonna happen with the Singapore summit. BEST case scenario is that it's a wash, nothing happens and it was a waste of a trip. But Trump has wanted to take troops out of SKorea for ages. Im genuinely afraid he's going to walk in and be like "Listen, we really appreciate your giving up those US hostages and stopping nuke testing, really a show of good faith. So here's our offer-- if you agree to end the Korean War we will agree to pull troops out of SKorea." And his fucking base will think it was a grand act of diplomacy, that he ended a war no other president could, and "brought the troops home". And Fox News will echo the propaganda and craven GOP leaders wont say a word.

US presence on the peninsula has a stabilizing effect on both North Korean and South Korean military ambitions. NK doesnt want to drag in a superpower so it has a deterrent effect. SK military command is intertwined with our presence there so attempts to retaliate in the event of an incident are tamped down. There have been literally hundreds of violent incidents we know of since the Korean War ceasefire was signed: shelling an island, blowing up fishermen, abductions, commando raids, repeated assassination attempts... and that's purely NK acting against SK, I don't know if the reverse has happened too. The US being there prevents both sides going to war.



We also have a defense treaty with SKorea. If we pull out of the peninsula, abrogate the treaty, and leave them high and dry, it does incredible damage to other nations' ability to trust us-- something already terribly frayed since November 2016. By contributing to their security we have greater clout with Seoul (and other regional countries like Japan, Taiwan, etc). Those countries are then more willing to back us on other international issues, whether those deal with trade, nonproliferation, climate, etc. If we break our word (like we did with the Iran deal, or Libya for that matter) it will be harder for us to negotiate in the future (like with North Korea).



Lastly, having bases overseas allows quicker response to regional needs (whether a traditional threat or humanitarian assistance/disaster relief or something else) and costs us less because South Korea foots a large chunk of the bill for basing them there. I will be quick to agree that we spend too much on the military and would do well to seek a drawdown but for the time being it's better to have them subsidized and strategically deployed.


I get the sense from some of your other posts that you are more inclined toward isolationism-- maybe not in the MAGA sense, but of pulling back overseas bases and allow countries to work things out between themselves (feel free to tell me how wrong I may be in that assumption). That would seem to mean less difficult engagements/entanglements and a way of spending our excessive military budget domestically, but the cascading effects would be shitty. If NK and SK go to war and Seoul gets shelled, where do you think refugees will try to flee? Japan and China, sure, but Japan will only take so many and if war has broken out, China has probably given its blessing to NK and will have border guards ready to expel refugees. Excepting China, the US has more Koreans living in it than the next 20 countries combined. Look what the Syrian war has done to immigration politics in Europe and imagine how GOPers would ratchet up the border wall rhetoric.

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President Trump says he got North Korea to commit to destroying a major missile testing site but "we didn't put it in the agreement because we didn't have time."

https://twitter.com/ryanstruyk/status/10...0821729280

Tonight on Hannity: Why putting things in writing only emboldens the Deep State

Also, Marco Rubio's twitter feed is quite the laugh factory today: https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/10...8689353728
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(04-13-2018, 01:26 PM)huntertarantino Wrote: "I don’t know Mr. Libby, but for years I have heard that he has been treated unfairly. Hopefully, this full pardon will help rectify a very sad portion of his life.”

https://twitter.com/markberman/status/98...68/photo/1

You know, I'd be totally okay with strategic asteroids taking out the White House, Trump Tower, and Mar-a-Lago right now. No fallout, no intergalactic radiation, no civilian casualties, just some good ol' cosmic property destruction.

(06-12-2018, 12:01 PM)Amos Wrote: A friend of mine works for a US-Asia foreign policy think tank (probably would've ended up at the State Dept if 2016 had gone differently), and here's his (informal) take on the whole Singapore summit:

Quote:Ugh. Really legitimately concerned about what's gonna happen with the Singapore summit. BEST case scenario is that it's a wash, nothing happens and it was a waste of a trip. But Trump has wanted to take troops out of SKorea for ages. Im genuinely afraid he's going to walk in and be like "Listen, we really appreciate your giving up those US hostages and stopping nuke testing, really a show of good faith. So here's our offer-- if you agree to end the Korean War we will agree to pull troops out of SKorea." And his fucking base will think it was a grand act of diplomacy, that he ended a war no other president could, and "brought the troops home". And Fox News will echo the propaganda and craven GOP leaders wont say a word.

US presence on the peninsula has a stabilizing effect on both North Korean and South Korean military ambitions. NK doesnt want to drag in a superpower so it has a deterrent effect. SK military command is intertwined with our presence there so attempts to retaliate in the event of an incident are tamped down. There have been literally hundreds of violent incidents we know of since the Korean War ceasefire was signed: shelling an island, blowing up fishermen, abductions, commando raids, repeated assassination attempts... and that's purely NK acting against SK, I don't know if the reverse has happened too. The US being there prevents both sides going to war.



We also have a defense treaty with SKorea. If we pull out of the peninsula, abrogate the treaty, and leave them high and dry, it does incredible damage to other nations' ability to trust us-- something already terribly frayed since November 2016. By contributing to their security we have greater clout with Seoul (and other regional countries like Japan, Taiwan, etc). Those countries are then more willing to back us on other international issues, whether those deal with trade, nonproliferation, climate, etc. If we break our word (like we did with the Iran deal, or Libya for that matter) it will be harder for us to negotiate in the future (like with North Korea).



Lastly, having bases overseas allows quicker response to regional needs (whether a traditional threat or humanitarian assistance/disaster relief or something else) and costs us less because South Korea foots a large chunk of the bill for basing them there. I will be quick to agree that we spend too much on the military and would do well to seek a drawdown but for the time being it's better to have them subsidized and strategically deployed.


I get the sense from some of your other posts that you are more inclined toward isolationism-- maybe not in the MAGA sense, but of pulling back overseas bases and allow countries to work things out between themselves (feel free to tell me how wrong I may be in that assumption). That would seem to mean less difficult engagements/entanglements and a way of spending our excessive military budget domestically, but the cascading effects would be shitty. If NK and SK go to war and Seoul gets shelled, where do you think refugees will try to flee? Japan and China, sure, but Japan will only take so many and if war has broken out, China has probably given its blessing to NK and will have border guards ready to expel refugees. Excepting China, the US has more Koreans living in it than the next 20 countries combined. Look what the Syrian war has done to immigration politics in Europe and imagine how GOPers would ratchet up the border wall rhetoric.

Yep, and given the power behind the throne and the gatekeeper in North Korea is China they're by far the biggest winners in all of this. That border is hugely unstable without someone underwriting South Korea and China has much freer rein to use the North has a provocative proxy or simply continue its takeover of the region without fear of US resistance backed up by the threat of local significant force.

The main narrative for these times is the fall out of 2008. I think we're also seeing the consequences of Gulf War II playing put strategically across the globe. What a combo.

Thanks Bush.
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In the future propaganda-driven, Orwellian dystopia that is the US, the stock-footage industry will be thriving.





Seriously....this shit is slowly becoming less and less funny daily...
I used to be with "it", but then they changed what "it" was. Now, what I'm with isn't "it", and what's "it" seems weird and scary to me.   -Grandpa Simpson
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too bad it wasn't a trailer for THE INTERVIEW.
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I ain't laughed at this since he secured the GOP nomination. This shit ain't funny.
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Faux News is currently comparing Trump's "agreement" with the Iran nuclear deal. You can guess which one they think is better.

Kim could actually announce that he's disposing of his nuclear arsenal by firing them all towards Guam, and Fox would STILL claim Iran was a "worse" deal.
"These guys are pros, Michael. They're gonna push the tension 'till the last possible moment before they strip."

 
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(06-12-2018, 01:01 PM)leto ii Wrote: Faux News is currently comparing Trump's "agreement" with the Iran nuclear deal. You can guess which one they think is better.

It'd be great if one of these intrepid doers of journalism actually asked Trump to explain why this deal is Good, while the Iran deal is Bad.

George Stephanopoulos got the chance, and he SORT OF went there, but of course he offered no pushback whatsoever when Trump started vomitting up his word salad bullshit. But hey, I'm sure it was just such an honor to be a non-Fox News personality in the presence of our great leader!
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