Thread Rating:
  • 8 Vote(s) - 2.88 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Star Wars IX: The Rise of Skywalker - A "pain without end" Overlord discussion thread
I can't get enough of Bart's scriven.
Git' in under mah belly!
Reply
Talk dirty about The Last Jedi to me.
"I'd rather have hope...than nothing at all."
-Illyana Rasputin, X-Men: Omega #1

"But the public, knowing what it wanted, spinning happily, let the comic books survive."
-Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451

Twitter: @BartLBishop
Reply
(10-17-2018, 03:07 PM)bartleby_scriven Wrote: Talk dirty about The Last Jedi to me.

TLJ shat down my mouth, and I kind of liked it, because the searing violation fuels my burning fanboi rage, and it rages so good.

[Image: giphy.gif]
Git' in under mah belly!
Reply
Good improv.
"I'd rather have hope...than nothing at all."
-Illyana Rasputin, X-Men: Omega #1

"But the public, knowing what it wanted, spinning happily, let the comic books survive."
-Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451

Twitter: @BartLBishop
Reply
Indeed. Perhaps I should audition for Episode 9's massive reshoots directed by Rian Johnson.

"Excuse me, M-Mr. Johnson sir? I'd like to improvise something onto you, uh at you! Uh for you! Sir."
Git' in under mah belly!
Reply
Hypothetical: You're watching EPISODE IX opening night and in a pivotal scene this character appears.

[Image: DmKSoopXsAA4yoS.jpg]

How would you react?

recent photo of Harrison Ford:
[Image: DnDfFfWX4AUCTb0.jpg]
Reply
I thought Obi-Wan was dead??
Reply
If J.J. Abrams pulled a "Han Solo is still alive" green rabbit out of his mystery box, could y'all roll with that? Would it depend on the explanation or would it be a deal breaker no matter what?
Reply
Barry, do you truly REALLY understand how stupid that would be? You obviously understand it would a stretch, but do you understand just HOW much of a stretch?
Reply
I get it, but I tend think that most of the audience would be so overjoyed to see him again that they wouldn't care.

"Wait, how did he...? Oh who gives a shit? Solo's back, baby!"
Reply
At this point Star Wars can do anything. I'm at Bunny Breckinridge levels of

[Image: Ed%2BWood%2BBill%2BMurray%2B02.gif]

(On a meta level it is kind of hilariously fucked up that Han has a truly horrifying final chapter of his life while Deckard gets a potentially happy ending.)
Reply
Would people really care?

I'm not convinced they would. The Force Awakens was that moment where people cared. That's past now.
Reply
I mean, you already killed off Han fucking Solo for essentially no reason. You don't get to call backsies on that. That's a fucking scarlet J.J. you have to live with forever.
Reply
(10-22-2018, 03:33 AM)commodorejohn Wrote: I mean, you already killed off Han fucking Solo for essentially no reason. You don't get to call backsies on that. That's a fucking scarlet J.J. you have to live with forever.
Hadn't Ford wanted Han to be killed off for 35 years?
Reply
You can't do more with Han if Ford's not game and wants to be killed off.
Reply
Haha sure, if they want to retroactively ruin one the most interesting parts of The Force Awakens.
I might have been born yesterday sir, but I stayed up all night!
Reply
The awkward extremely telegraphed death scene was interesting?
Reply
Solo's death is great! No take backsies!
"I mean don't get me wrong fucking the wolf man is impressive but ugh." - Waaaaaaaalt
Reply
(10-22-2018, 04:20 AM)freeman Wrote: The awkward extremely telegraphed death scene was interesting?

The telegraphed part is one of the best aspects of it.  In that moment Rey and Finn are positioned as the audience stand-ins, nobodies observing the myths and legends they'd heard about as kids play out in front of them.  Han's death was deliberately theatrical.  Like an actor going out for his final curtain call.  The closest thing I can compare it to is way all the players reluctantly take their marks in the titular scene from The Assassination of Jesse James By the Coward Robert Ford (no relation.)
Reply
Bailey gets it.
"I mean don't get me wrong fucking the wolf man is impressive but ugh." - Waaaaaaaalt
Reply
Best part of the movie.
I might have been born yesterday sir, but I stayed up all night!
Reply
Don't get me wrong, in some ways I think it kind of stops the movie dead. As much as I credit Abrams for introducing four new characters I really liked, and giving us the old Harrison Ford again, I don't know that the logic-averse thrill ride JJ was taking us on really had enough pathos built up to earn that moment. But the weird thing about Force Awakens is the meta-narrative is more interesting than, and actually kind of in conflict with the actual narrative.
Reply
(10-22-2018, 04:35 AM)bailey Wrote:
(10-22-2018, 04:20 AM)freeman Wrote: The awkward extremely telegraphed death scene was interesting?

The telegraphed part is one of the best aspects of it.  In that moment Rey and Finn are positioned as the audience stand-ins, nobodies observing the myths and legends they'd heard about as kids play out in front of them.  Han's death was deliberately theatrical.  Like an actor going out for his final curtain call.  The closest thing I can compare it to is way all the players reluctantly take their marks in the titular scene from The Assassination of Jesse James By the Coward Robert Ford (no relation.)

Sure. The light on Ben's face turning red was a gorgeous operatic touch. But name dropping The Assassination of Jesse James does TFA absolutely no favors because that movie WORKS, and for me at least in TFA you're just sort of sitting there counting the seconds waiting for the inevitable instead of engrossed in the drama of the moment.

For James I can vividly remember a shot of Cassie Affleck literally quivering with nerves, actively shaking and feeling just like him as the moment built. I was about as in the moment as you could get in that sense. With TFA you don't really have that. We don't get a strong feel for Kylo's conflict and goodness, because his hateful spite is the only side of him we REALLY get a good feel of, and we as an audience don't and won't hate Harrison Ford. Plus Han is treating confronting his son as a "well his mother asked me so I guess I should give it a crack..."

I guess I'm trying to hint at the overall moment working, but not working nearly as much as it should have and would have in a more competently designed and thought out film. Which is to say I'm shitting on TFA again it's been too long!
Reply
I tend to think that if "The Force Awakens" is genuinely remembered for anything several decades from now, it will probably be for the exquisitely-rendered final scene of Han Solo's in the saga. These new movies have missed a lot of opportunities but in that one case they hit something terrible and true; it felt like a touching callback to the vibes of Greek tragedy, mainly about hubris, and fathers and sons being symbiotically attached in their legacies, that helped to make the final two acts of "The Return of the Jedi" so rich with Luke, Vader and the Emperor enmeshed in a spiritual battle.

It's true, though, that a lot of pieces linked to Kylo's patricide of his father are only fleetingly developed.
Reply
Han’s death has been telegraphed since 1983. It’s been telegraphed since we read all those years ago that Ford wanted Han to die because he had no meaning after ESB other than to stand around being Han Solo™️.

When it was announced that Disney would be making the sequels we wondered if the original cast would return and when it was announced Ford was back, how many of us immediately thought “I bet Han dies.” Paying Ford a fortune and making sure Han dies in the most obvious and final way possible (lasersword through the gut, fall into a bottomless chasm on a planet, planet then explodes - yeah, I think he’s dead).

Han’s death was telegraphed the moment we were introduced to JJ’s Rey and the Spunky Bunch and Han turned up as the crusty mentor.

Han’s death was telegraphed the moment he hugged Leia and said he missed her etc.

Han’s death was telegraphed the moment he handed Chewie the detonator.

Han’s death was telegraphed the moment he stepped out on to the galaxy’s most impossibly dangerous walkway. And to be fair, they do do a good job of ratcheting up the tension, even though it’s been telegraphed from way back in 1983 we can tell what’s going to happen. Each time I watch it I think he’s going to get away with it. But at the very last moment BBZZZZUUUUURRRRRGGGHHH!! If anything, thanks to all the telegraphing a real shock would be for Kylo *not* to kill Han.

Another great, but unexpected way to kill off the character would be when he’s walking across the walkway to slip on a banana skin (slide-whistle) and do a pratfall into the chasm (Wilhelm scream).

We all knew Han was going to bite it the moment Ford’s casting was announced back in 2012. But as cool as Han was and regardless of how much we loved him we all knew the real reason we wanted to continuation of the saga was to follow another character - and Luke turns up at the very end.

Oh shit. This is going to be fucking epic. I have to wait two more years to see how Luke’s going to tear shit up???¿?

...

...

Oh...
Reply
Luke tore some green alien cow milk up. He tore that up real good.
Reply
Luke's death > Han's death.
"I mean don't get me wrong fucking the wolf man is impressive but ugh." - Waaaaaaaalt
Reply
Am I the only person who likes seeing classic characters, after a long run, getting killed off? It's compelling to see how they'll react.

Case in point:

   
"I'd rather have hope...than nothing at all."
-Illyana Rasputin, X-Men: Omega #1

"But the public, knowing what it wanted, spinning happily, let the comic books survive."
-Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451

Twitter: @BartLBishop
Reply
Love it!

There's a mythic quality to both Luke and Han's ends that just feels like perfect cappers to these characters. Watching these characters' stories have clearly defined beginnings and endings is just very compelling to me as opposed to them just being around forever.
"I mean don't get me wrong fucking the wolf man is impressive but ugh." - Waaaaaaaalt
Reply
Don’t mind in the slightest that old characters die.

Han’s death was inevitable and the fact that he was a broad-brush pulp character made sense that he went out in some sort of pulp Greek tragedy kind of way.

And as much as Luke’s death works in the Star Wars galaxy, his death as a movie hero doesn’t. Movie heroes don’t fade away after tricking someone from afar. Luke deserved a much better, a much more hands-on death.
Reply
I disagree.

Because I love that a character...who's ultimate arc in the OT was learning about NOT being overtly aggressive and violent ends his journey by not engaging in violent activities.
"I mean don't get me wrong fucking the wolf man is impressive but ugh." - Waaaaaaaalt
Reply
(10-22-2018, 08:19 AM)Codename Wrote: I disagree.

Because I love that a character...who's ultimate arc in the OT was learning about NOT being overtly aggressive and violent ends his journey by not engaging in violent activities.

Yeah, pawn that shit off on the new kids. Let them blow up stormtroopers by the thousands in the next movie.
Reply
TFA has a lot of problems but I don't think Han's death is one of them. It very much moves the story forward and helps give shape to Ren's arc.

And Luke's death in TLJ is fucking great.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
Reply
Whether you liked TLJ or not, I don't think that comparison makes much sense and with Fisher's struggles with substance abuse, feels like an icky thing to say.
Reply
(10-22-2018, 05:33 AM)The Freeman Wrote: But name dropping The Assassination of Jesse James does TFA absolutely no favors because that movie WORKS, and for me at least in TFA you're just sort of sitting there counting the seconds waiting for the inevitable instead of engrossed in the drama of the moment.
This. The entire sequence is so irritatingly drawn-out yet at the same time desperate to make the audience understand that HEY HEY SOMETHING BIG AND SHOCKING IS COMING ARE YOU READY FOR IT ANY SECOND NOW HANG IN THERE IT'S GONNA BE A BIG SURPRISE JUST YOU WAIT and it just kills any potential for pathos in the attempt to gin up basic dictionary-definition "tension." It's not classical tragedy, it's just a movie that wants to have its cake and eat it too.

I mean, I give Joss Whedon a lot of shit for his gratuitous character deaths, but at least they're only unsurprising in a meta-narrative context.
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)