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AVENGERS: ENDGAME - Post-Release Thread (Unsponsored)
#36
(04-24-2019, 11:18 PM)kriegaffe Wrote: - I kinda think they overplayed the Thor stuff. Funny at first, but hard to believe he didn’t have his shit together by the time he got to Asgard.

Agreed. Thought it was weird that Thor doesn't really have a moment after the first 15 minutes where he isn't a buffoon.
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#37
Agreed for the most part, but damn if his "I knew it!" after that Mjolnir moment wasn't absolutely wonderful.
As was his constant and unconvincing affirmations to Quill at the end.
Not a hard man to track. Leaves dead men wherever he goes.
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#38
I'm still thinking this film over... but to be honest, it's kinda falling apart as I think about it.

For instance:
- In a film where Cap gets the ultimate do-over... I feel like Black Widow got a really raw deal.
- The Thanos they fight is not the Thanos from Infinity War. It's not the Thanos who killed Gamora or Loki. There's something about it that just feels weird. Like... it just feels a little bit arbitrary that their messing in the past attracted the attention of a super-villain who happened to be the same super-villain from the first film.
- The time travel... it just breaks the whole universe apart. For a film series that has been dependant on MacGuffins, the ability to go 'borrow' it from another dimension kinda destroys the stakes of all the plotlines.

I enjoyed so much of the film. The audaciousness of the 'FIVE YEARS LATER', the clever revisiting of old films and moments (*whispers* Hail Hydra), and all the clever character work... But right now it reminds me of Ultron. A big messy mess, that I kinda need to calibrate my expectations around so I enjoy the good stuff and don't sweat about the details.
PSN: Kriegaffe
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#39
(04-25-2019, 01:30 AM)kriegaffe Wrote: I'm still thinking this film over... but to be honest, it's kinda falling apart as I think about it.

For instance:
- In a film where Cap gets the ultimate do-over... I feel like Black Widow got a really raw deal.

If it matters at all, I don't think Hulk's "I tried really hard to bring Nat back" comment was a throw-away. I think he succeeded, doesn't know it, and she's out there somewhere. (Same with Gamora)

I also thought Scarlett Johansson was awfully good in this.
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#40
Great to see you again, kriegaffe.
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#41
(04-25-2019, 01:35 AM)The Dark Shape Wrote:
(04-25-2019, 01:30 AM)kriegaffe Wrote: I'm still thinking this film over... but to be honest, it's kinda falling apart as I think about it.

For instance:
- In a film where Cap gets the ultimate do-over... I feel like Black Widow got a really raw deal.

If it matters at all, I don't think Hulk's "I tried really hard to bring Nat back" comment was a throw-away. I think he succeeded, doesn't know it, and she's out there somewhere. (Same with Gamora)

I thought Scarlett Johansson was awfully good in this.

I mostly read that line as "rules defining statement". i.e. Soul Stone trade > Infinity Gauntlet wish.

I thought she was really good too. Especially in the post-5-years tele-conference and pretty much all her interactions with Hawkeye.

I reckon Gamora is gonna come back. There's enough question marks to make that possible. For instance, when Thanos destroyed the gems, perhaps he released Gamora's soul... who knows?

With Black Widow though, it just seemed so tragic. Clint and Natasha got assigned that gem without anyone being aware of the implications.
PSN: Kriegaffe
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#42
Wait, was Gamora dusted again ? The screen in Quill’s ship at the end read « searching ». I took it as meaning that the Gamora that was brought from the old timeline took off because she’s not yet the one who’s at the place where she can join the Guardians.
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#43
(04-25-2019, 02:18 AM)blunt Wrote: Wait, was Gamora dusted again ? The screen in Quill’s ship at the end read « searching ». I took it as meaning that the Gamora that was brought from the old timeline took off because she’s not yet the one who’s at the place where she can join the Guardians.

You might be right. It wasn't clear cause she's right there in the final battle, talking to this-universe Nebula, then she's not seen from again. I assumed that Tony made a wish like "Please dust everyone and everything from the old time-line... except Mjölnir".

Unfortunately, the film invites a lot of questions about what can and can't be done with both the gems and the Pym-tech. If one is willing to kinda just accept that stuff happens and people do what the do, then it's all fine. And frankly, that's the best way to enjoy this film.

But for me I just can't help but question what exactly happened, and what was possible, especially when several characters are considered dead or gone with no way clear way to bring them back (i.e. Loki, Heimdall, Vision, Gamora, Black Widow).
PSN: Kriegaffe
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#44
(04-25-2019, 01:30 AM)kriegaffe Wrote: I'm still thinking this film over... but to be honest, it's kinda falling apart as I think about it.

For instance:
- In a film where Cap gets the ultimate do-over... I feel like Black Widow got a really raw deal.
- The Thanos they fight is not the Thanos from Infinity War. It's not the Thanos who killed Gamora or Loki. There's something about it that just feels weird. Like... it just feels a little bit arbitrary that their messing in the past attracted the attention of a super-villain who happened to be the same super-villain from the first film.
- The time travel... it just breaks the whole universe apart. For a film series that has been dependant on MacGuffins, the ability to go 'borrow' it from another dimension kinda destroys the stakes of all the plotlines.

I enjoyed so much of the film. The audaciousness of the 'FIVE YEARS LATER', the clever revisiting of old films and moments (*whispers* Hail Hydra), and all the clever character work... But right now it reminds me of Ultron. A big messy mess, that I kinda need to calibrate my expectations around so I enjoy the good stuff and don't sweat about the details.

Yeah this is what I was worried about.
“I call upon you to stop this musical now,” she said to the board. “You tear a community apart if you don’t.” -Prachi Ruina                                                            
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#45
I bitch and whine a lot about comic book movies, but they really hit lightning in a bottle with this one.

Easily the best of the Avengers films and maybe even my favourite in the entire franchise.
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#46
Regarding who can or can’t be brought back, even if it’s not explicitly stated in the film, it’s my understanding that the gauntlet can only undo what was initially done by itself. So a second snap can bring back the people that were dusted by the first but not people who died in other circumstances. Hence none of the people you mentioned can come back.

Of course though with Loki we might now have an alternate 2012 one roaming around somewhere, unless Cap putting the Tesseract back in place in the timeline fixed that.
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#47
(04-25-2019, 02:45 AM)blunt Wrote: Regarding who can or can’t be brought back, even if it’s not explicitly stated in the film, it’s my understanding that the gauntlet can only undo what was initially done by itself. So a second snap can bring back the people that were dusted by the first but not people who died in other circumstances. Hence none of the people you mentioned can come back.

Of course though with Loki we might now have an alternate 2012 one roaming around somewhere, unless Cap putting the Tesseract back in place in the timeline fixed that.

In the comics, the Gauntlet can do anything with no adverse side-effects for the user. For instance, Thanos invents a girlfriend for himself. It's literally power over all of reality.

The MCU version is more complicated and ill-defined.

- Rewinding time to restore the Mind Gem... no big deal.
- Killing half the universe... significant damage to Thanos who is established to be a tough mofo. But whatever happened, he was still able to use the gems a few weeks later.
- Destroying the gems... nearly kills Thanos.
- Reversing the deaths of half the universe... severely messes up Hulk's arm for weeks.
- Killing a very large spaceship and all it's inhabitants (but still far less than half the universe)... kills Tony Stark.

It seemed like the Avengers intentionally decided to only restore those dusted by Thanos, and no-one else. I presume this was a choice to avoid moral complications. Thus no Vision/Loki/Heimdall. But Banner explicitly states he tried to bring back Black Widow, but it simply wasn't possible. Maybe he wasn't sure about what he achieved or not, it's hard to know.
PSN: Kriegaffe
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#48
Also an older Gamora is back or......?
“I call upon you to stop this musical now,” she said to the board. “You tear a community apart if you don’t.” -Prachi Ruina                                                            
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#49
(04-25-2019, 03:08 AM)waaaaaaaalt Wrote: Also an older Gamora is back or......?

The Gamora in the film is from the point in time that occurs during the start of GotG 1. Before she's captured on Xandar. So I suppose that makes her younger than the one who dies on Vormir.
PSN: Kriegaffe
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#50
(04-25-2019, 04:10 AM)kriegaffe Wrote:
(04-25-2019, 03:08 AM)waaaaaaaalt Wrote: Also an older Gamora is back or......?

The Gamora in the film is from the point in time that occurs during the start of GotG 1. Before she's captured on Xandar. So I suppose that makes her younger than the one who dies on Vormir.

Right........right.
“I call upon you to stop this musical now,” she said to the board. “You tear a community apart if you don’t.” -Prachi Ruina                                                            
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#51
Nu-Gamora is almost exactly the Gamora we first met in GoTG1. We meet this one as Rhodey and Nebula intercept Quill from getting the Power Stone, and in the original timeline she went to Xander to get the stone off Quill and, as we discover, betray Thanos. It's literally minutes worth of difference, so she's essentially a reset only with knowledge of what DID happen.
Not a hard man to track. Leaves dead men wherever he goes.
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#52
Alright. So is there any reason given why we can't just keep reaching back in time and grabbing alternate copies of people?
“I call upon you to stop this musical now,” she said to the board. “You tear a community apart if you don’t.” -Prachi Ruina                                                            
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#53
(04-25-2019, 05:09 AM)waaaaaaaalt Wrote: Alright. So is there any reason given why we can't just keep reaching back in time and grabbing alternate copies of people?

Well these are the sorts of questions that are starting to bug me bit.

The time travel technology is fully-functional and available at the end of the film. So in theory they can go and get anyone or anything from the past. For example, Thor retrieves Mjölnir from the past. It's fully functional and is seen in one of the final scenes.

I don't 100% know what happened to past-Gamora at the end of the film. She arrives from her past-Timeline into the prime-Timeline alongside past-Thanos, his cronies, and his entire invasion force. Tony uses the glove to 'snap' all those guys to dust... but I don't remember seeing what happened to past-Gamora specifically. I *assumed* she got dusted aswell, but I'm not sure. My logic is that if past-Gamora survived the Stark-snap, she would still be hanging around on earth, as she became friends with prime-Nebula.
PSN: Kriegaffe
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#54
Pretty sure Gamora just did a runner, what with being overwhelmed by the events. GotG3 will be The Search For Gamora, perhaps?
Not a hard man to track. Leaves dead men wherever he goes.
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#55
GotG3 - Thor Eats A Salad.
PSN: Kriegaffe
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#56
Nice touch bringing Harley from Iron Man 3 back for Tony's funeral, too. In fact, the amount of people they brought back for tiny moments was insane.
Not a hard man to track. Leaves dead men wherever he goes.
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#57
(04-25-2019, 07:54 AM)EDthe nz natural Wrote: Nice touch bringing Harley from Iron Man 3 back for Tony's funeral, too.  In fact, the amount of people they brought back for tiny moments was insane.

I didn’t recognize him and was wondering who that was when the camera panned to him. Ty Simpkins sure has grown. 

And yeah the actor fees on this film must have been at least 1/4 of the cost. Though I was left wondering if Portman really came back for two brief shots or if they just used stock shots of The Dark World since she has no interaction with Rocket.
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#58
So, spoiler space.



Cap is not Marty, but rather Lorraine, in that he nearly hooked with his likely daughter, Sharon Carter aka neighbor Nurse Karen in the future. Bullet dodged.
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#59
Is Dum-E at the funeral?

The real ending to Big...
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#60
(04-25-2019, 11:26 AM)scottieferguson Wrote: So, spoiler space.



Cap is not Marty, but rather Lorraine, in that he nearly hooked with his likely daughter, Sharon Carter aka neighbor Nurse Karen in the future. Bullet dodged.

I think Agent Carter was her aunt so.....slightly less bad I guess.
“I call upon you to stop this musical now,” she said to the board. “You tear a community apart if you don’t.” -Prachi Ruina                                                            
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#61
So, more like Jon Snow then.  Captain America, first of his name.  

Saw that the comic character was Peggy's daughter, but a niece retcon makes more sense time wise.
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#62
(04-25-2019, 07:50 PM)scottieferguson Wrote: So, more like Jon Snow then.  Captain America, first of his name.  

Saw that the comic character was Peggy's daughter, but a niece retcon makes more sense time wise.

Well no blood relation. Although weird she wouldn't remember Uncle Cap.......or worse she does and she has to fuck around with him anyway to keep the timeline together.
“I call upon you to stop this musical now,” she said to the board. “You tear a community apart if you don’t.” -Prachi Ruina                                                            
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#63
Really enjoyed the film. Some quibbles here and there, but they stuck the landing. The big moments played very well with my audience. The film resets the board but I appreciated them giving the audience a real ending. Good job!
"I'm not a smart man" -F. Gump
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#64
This is the cinematic equivalent of the NHL champion skating around the rink hoisting the Stanley Cup from player to player.
Just this guy, you know?
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#65
There were so many individual parts I liked or loved...but it never seemed to gell together. The Thor stuff left myself cold, and the time travel stuff ultimately had myself thinking "Boy. Avengers and GOTG were really damned good."
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#66
So...Robert Reford's last movie before retiring wont be The Old man and the gun apparently...
"Stephen Sommers is the Duke Fleed of film directors"
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#67
This movie shouldn't exist. Not because it's bad (entirely the opposite), but because it's a more-than-minor miracle that any director(s) could juggle this many pieces and plotlines and end up with something that works like gangbusters. A few moments felt overly fanservicey...but a lot of them felt very earned, or long overdue.

But I would definitely say that there's no way in a thousand hells this movie makes a lick of sense without Infinity War. In the sense that it really does feel like it's just one 5+ hour movie with an indefinite intermission between the first two and the last three.

But yeah, I thought it was pretty great. And as for Cap: He kept the secrets he needed to keep for everything to work out, and Peggy, being Director of SHIELD, probably had no problem setting him up with a new ID. Yeah a few folks might think he looks like that Captain America guy, but he probably just laughs it off/"I get that all the time." Given that he seems to have aged naturally, if Nick Fury ever met him, he probably had already aged well out of looking like WW II Steve. The only real wildcard would be Howard Stark, as it seems highly unlikely he wouldn't have known who Peggy's Husband was. Though he was certainly capable of keeping his own secrets.
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#68
Oh my god Chris Hemsworth just killed it. Johansson and Downey were also in peak form, Downey in particular could be looking at an Oscar nod for this one. I think it’s possible.

There was parts during the final battle where I couldn’t believe what I was witnessing. It was like the tarmac fight dialed to 11.

The cheeseburger line destroyed me.

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#69
Fat Thor is the best Thor.
"Stephen Sommers is the Duke Fleed of film directors"
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#70
Nat is back. But not because of Banner. Not directly.

As the Red Skull said, a soul for a soul. They put the Soul Stone back.
I'm not Avery.
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