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Star Wars IX: The Rise of Skywalker - A "pain without end" Overlord discussion thread
And JJ.
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I read some of that stuff and ugh...UGH. I feel like the best bet for Star Wars going forward is a Star Wars film franchise that has not a goddamn thing to do with Jedis.
"God moves in mysterious ways," they said. Maybe he is on your side, the way it all worked out. Remembering other Christmases, wishing for something, something important, something special. And this is it, baby boy Frankie Bono. You're alone now. All alone. The scream is dead. There's no pain. You're home again, back in the cold, black silence
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(09-15-2019, 01:51 PM)ska oreo Wrote: I read some of that stuff and ugh...UGH.  I feel like the best bet for Star Wars going forward is a Star Wars film franchise that has not a goddamn thing to do with Jedis.

....is it time for the Jedi to end?

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Now is the time.

You know what to do.
"God moves in mysterious ways," they said. Maybe he is on your side, the way it all worked out. Remembering other Christmases, wishing for something, something important, something special. And this is it, baby boy Frankie Bono. You're alone now. All alone. The scream is dead. There's no pain. You're home again, back in the cold, black silence
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Maybe somebody should do a Spoilers/Tar & Feather Those Responsible thread for TRoS? It would make this one easier to navigate.
Originally Posted by ImmortanNick 

Saw Batman v Superman.
Now I know what it's like to see Nickelback in concert.

That's my review.
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It's not a spoiler if people are just guessing, for fuck's sake. Splitting the pre-release discussion into two communities is an awful idea when the board's user base is as small as it is. And if that "spoiler" turns out to be legit, then there are bigger problems. None of us are influencing Abrams to end this series with something this dumb.
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I don't know why people are running with something from Reddit that they know is complete bullshit without any sources whatsoever. Any excuse to complain I guess.
Originally Posted by ImmortanNick 

Saw Batman v Superman.
Now I know what it's like to see Nickelback in concert.

That's my review.
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Was he guessing? I thought that was legit. If he was guessing and I was aware of it I wouldn't have said anything. But, I've been wrong before lol. For obvious reasons, I won't do any searches to see how true that is...I'll just let it drop. Well....I've already let it drop but now I'm SAYING it's dropped..
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Anyway, please consider this a spoiler thread for posting spoilers. And spoilers only. No guessing.
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John Williams: "J.J. Abrams is directing the new film. He's doing a fantastic job. I won't say anything about it other than the ending will just put you all away. I think you will love it. When we made the first film, none of us had any idea there was going to be a second film. At the present time I'm working on the ninth version of it. It's promised by Disney that this will be the last one. It certainly will be the last one that I will do. It's a fabulous film. You remember Force Awakens, he did such a great job of introducing the cast, Adam Driver and Daisy Ridley, which was so fresh and had such wonderful comedy. And they did it again in this one. But J.J. changes scenes a lot, and we've already recorded with the orchestra a hundred minutes of music, which is a lot, and in the next month or so I have to do forty more minutes. So I have to go back to California tomorrow to my other job."
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What a bunch of fluffy nothing Johnny boy.
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"Hi, I'm the composer for a film I didn't write or direct. It's going to be great, or at least I'm going to do my damnedest to make it sound great. Okay? Was that enough? Can you please stop training that rifle on my forehead?"
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"Changes scenes a lot"

Perhaps the best non-endorsement endorsement for a film I've ever read.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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“This movie is great. There’s a beginning, middle, and even an ending! You guys will be blown away”
"God moves in mysterious ways," they said. Maybe he is on your side, the way it all worked out. Remembering other Christmases, wishing for something, something important, something special. And this is it, baby boy Frankie Bono. You're alone now. All alone. The scream is dead. There's no pain. You're home again, back in the cold, black silence
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I recall a "from a trusted source" synopsis about ROTS that had Padme trapped in a nascent rebel fortress on a water planet, and there was a big battle there with Anakin trying to rescue her. So... that's pretty much how I'm treating these rumors, with an extra salt margarita. Granted, the internet has changed a lot since then.
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(09-16-2019, 09:12 AM)ska oreo Wrote: “This movie is great.  There’s a beginning, middle, and even an ending!  You guys will be blown away”

‘And it’s in focus, too!’

I still maintain hope for this entry.  Again, I go back to how we were all shitting on the first PLANET OF THE APES pictures/footage/synopsis.  None of it looked promising and, on paper, it didn’t sound like a must see movie.  What we got exceeded expectations and I’m hoping for a similar situation here.  Granted, this is J.J. Abrams and he’s a bit of a known quantity, but still...Ron Howard delivered APOLLO 13 and RUSH, so even journeyman directors occasionally produce something that is better than expected.
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At most I'm just slightly curious where this "fuck it" Star Wars that's a sequel to a movie that has the ending of Return of the Jedi goes.
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(09-16-2019, 10:35 AM)Judas Booth Wrote:
(09-16-2019, 09:12 AM)ska oreo Wrote: “This movie is great.  There’s a beginning, middle, and even an ending!  You guys will be blown away”

‘And it’s in focus, too!’

I still maintain hope for this entry.  Again, I go back to how we were all shitting on the first PLANET OF THE APES pictures/footage/synopsis.  None of it looked promising and, on paper, it didn’t sound like a must see movie.  What we got exceeded expectations and I’m hoping for a similar situation here.  Granted, this is J.J. Abrams and he’s a bit of a known quantity, but still...Ron Howard delivered APOLLO 13 and RUSH, so even journeyman directors occasionally produce something that is better than expected.

But Ron Howard also delivered Solo so...

Eh, I can't even blame him on that because it's a decently directed film.  It's just fucked from the get-go by being an origin story and Disney wanting to give us a trilogy that no one was really asking for.
"God moves in mysterious ways," they said. Maybe he is on your side, the way it all worked out. Remembering other Christmases, wishing for something, something important, something special. And this is it, baby boy Frankie Bono. You're alone now. All alone. The scream is dead. There's no pain. You're home again, back in the cold, black silence
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I really hope we get to see some of the Lord & Miller stuff someday. I doubt it, because Disney, but I have a friend who just got his hands on Temple of Doom dailies, so, anything's possible.
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Ron Howard, the king of Middle of the Road.
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He makes some interesting choices sometimes, like filming that Moby Dick movie he did a few years ago like that Leviathan documentary but with lighting. But yeah, much of the time he's just blah. Sucks because there was a time he wasn't like that
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(09-16-2019, 01:47 PM)simbob Wrote: He makes some interesting choices sometimes, like filming that Moby Dick movie he did a few years ago like that Leviathan documentary but with lighting. But yeah, much of the time he's just blah. Sucks because there was a time he wasn't like that

RUSH proved to me that he can still bring it, and IN THE HEART OF THE SEA was half of a great movie.
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From Iger's The Ride Of A Lifetime:

"Early on, Kathy brought J.J. and Michael Arndt up to Northern California to meet with George at his ranch and talk about their ideas for the film. George immediately got upset as they began to describe the plot and it dawned on him that we weren't using one of the stories he submitted during the negotiations. The truth was, Kathy, J.J., Alan, and I had discussed the direction in which the saga should go, and we all agreed that it wasn't what George had outlined. George knew we weren't contractually bound to anything, but he thought that our buying the story treatments was a tacit promise that we'd follow them, and he was disappointed that his story was being discarded.

I'd been so careful since our first conversation not to mislead him in any way, and I didn't think I had now, but I could have handled it better. I should have prepared him for the meeting with J.J. and Michael and told him about our conversations, that we felt it was better to go in another direction. I could have talked through this with him and possibly avoided angering him by not surprising him. Now, in the first meeting with him about the future of Star Wars, George felt betrayed, and while this whole process would never have been easy for him, we'd gotten off to an unnecessarily rocky start."

"Just prior to the global release, Kathy screened The Force Awakens for George. He didn't hide his disappointment. 'There's nothing new,' he said. In each of the films in the original trilogy, it was important to him to present new worlds, new stories, new characters, and new technologies. In this one, he said, 'There weren't enough visual or technical leaps forward.' He wasn't wrong, but he also wasn't appreciating the pressure we were under to give ardent fans a film that felt quintessentially Star Wars. We'd intentionally created a world that was visually and tonally connected to the earlier films, to not stray too far from what people loved and expected, and George was criticizing us for the very thing we were trying to do. Looking back with the perspective of several years and a few more Star Wars films, I believe J.J. achieved the near-impossible, creating a perfect bridge between what had been and what was to come."
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George knows what's up.
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It's really hard to have an opinion on any of that without knowing Georges pitch. Either he's completely correct and was justifiably upset to be sort of fucked by con artists, or Iger very wisely avoided contractually having to use Georges ideas.

That being said what a fucking AWFUL way to start your journey, with the former creator caught off guard and deeply upset at you.

Also, "I believe JJ achieved the near-impossible, creating a perfect bridge between what had been and what was to come" Well, I believe you're an idiot, and the fact that you think this currently is very bad news for my hope for SW in the future.

MOAR Barry! Give me moar delicious quotes from clueless idiots to anger me!

(Kylo voice)

MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAR!
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Whatever George's story notes were, he wasn't and isn't wrong about FORWAKENS being nothing but rehash.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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Lucas has talked about these treatments before:

Quote:“[The next three Star Wars films] were going to get into a microbiotic world. But there’s this world of creatures that operate differently than we do. I call them the Whills. And the Whills are the ones who actually control the universe. They feed off the Force… If I’d held onto the company I could have done it, and then it would have been done. Of course, a lot of the fans would have hated it, just like they did Phantom Menace and everything, but at least the whole story from beginning to end would be told.”

Quote:“Back in the day, I used to say ultimately what this means is we were just cars, vehicles for the Whills to travel around in….We’re vessels for them. And the conduit is the midichlorians. The midichlorians are the ones that communicate with the Whills. The Whills, in a general sense, they are the Force… All the way back to—with the Force and the Jedi and everything—the whole concept of how things happen was laid out completely from [the beginning] to the end. But I never got to finish. I never got to tell people about it.”

So...Force Bacteria. Doubling down on Midichlorians. All kinds of goofy shit.

Regardless of what you think of the Disney Wars films, let's not kid ourselves. The reactions would have been just as much, if not more negative as they have been for the ST. 

And at the end of the day...you can't REALLY blame Kennedy and co. for ditching those. There were decades of internet bitching from ALL OF US on the Prequels and George's unfiltered ideas. We were the ones clamouring for a return of the OT. The final version might not be what people actually wanted but it's based on what people were asking for for years. We did this...we did.
"I mean don't get me wrong fucking the wolf man is impressive but ugh." - Waaaaaaaalt
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If they needed VII to be a bridge, fine, but the destruction of Starkiller Base would have been the perfect opportunity to move on from that. VIII's opening crawl could have explained that the First Order's fleet was largely destroyed and set up a new paradigm. They didn't need to do Lucas's outlines unfiltered, but they could have used them as a jumping off point. We could have still explored the Star Wars version of the microverse while steering clear of midichlorians. Perhaps Snoke, who projected himself as a giant in VII, was actually microscopic in size and our heroes would have to go on a "fantastic voyage" into the microbiotic world to take him down.
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OK yeah. So basically Disney was ENTIRELY correct, they simply botched all the FANTASTIC ideas they had for TFA.
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"Even though he had issues with the film, I thought it was important for George to be at the Force Awakens premiere. He didn't want to come at first, but Kathy, with the help of George's now-wife, Mellody Hobson, convinced him it was the right thing to do. Among the last things we negotiated before the deal closed was a non-disparagement clause. I asked George to agree that he wouldn't publicly criticize any of the Star Wars films we made. When I brought it up with him, he said, 'I'm going to be a big shareholder of the Walt Disney Company. Why would I disparage you or anything you do? You have to trust me.' I took him at his word."

"The movie opened and set a slew of box-office records, and we all breathed a sigh of relief. Our first Star Wars film was behind us and the Star Wars faithful appeared to have loved it. Shortly after the release, though, an interview George had done a few weeks earlier with Charlie Rose aired. George talked about his frustration that we hadn't followed his outlines and said that selling to Disney was like selling his children to 'white slavers.' It was an unfortunate and awkward way for him to describe the feeling of having sold something that he considered his children. I decided to stay quiet and let it pass. There was nothing to be gained from engaging in any public discourse or waging a defense. Mellody sent me an apologetic email, explaining how difficult this had all been for him. Then George called me. 'I was out of line,' he said. 'I shouldn't have said it like that. I was trying to explain how hard it is to let this thing go.' I told him I understood."
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(09-24-2019, 09:28 AM)freeman Wrote: OK yeah.  So basically Disney was ENTIRELY correct, they simply botched all the FANTASTIC ideas they had for TFA.

Disney was entirely correct to ditch Lucas's weird fixation with the mechanics of the Force.

Lucas was entirely correct in saying TFA offered nothing new.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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I kinda wish Lucas had put it on the contract that they were obliged to stick to his story ideas for the sequel trilogy. At least he wouldn't be making the film. Give it to real talent and have them figure out how to make a compelling film out of Lucas' ideas.

But I agree with him about TFA. I enjoyed it for what it was, but back then I was honestly sick to death with the pandering to the OT, the same story beats, the aesthetics, the nonsensical recreation of the Empire/Rebels dynamic, etc. But it was all about giving audiences what they think they want rather than doing something new.

I recall reading something about Lucas visiting the large sets that were built and his remark was "this is a waste of money, you could have just done this on computers". HAHAHA, Lucas really gives no fucks about setting environments for actors to play in.
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All this BS without knowing the particulars of what Lucas' concepts for OT sequels actually are is pointless. He makes the prequels. They have awful, stilted dialogue and surprisingly wooden performances from actors who usually aren't wooden. Everybody hates them to varying degrees. He gets paid BILLIONS for all of this. He knows full well that Disney was not REQUIRED to use his ideas any further. But poor poor Georgie. Left out in the cold with his billions. Now everybody acts like not using his material was some great missed opportunity, somehow forgetting the past twenty years of bitching, gnashing of teeth and rending of garments over the prequels and how Lucas has lost it and how he needs to turn it over to someone else. Now all of a sudden the prequels aren't as bad?(I realize not everyone is saying this but an astonishing amount of people do seem to be insinuating that) If he's gonna get this butthurt then he should've kept his company and made them himself. I doubt he's actually THAT upset. I wish that he'd release the exact material, in its entirety, that he's lamenting not getting made so we can actually see if there's even an argument here..
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(09-24-2019, 10:22 AM)mr. stockslivevan Wrote: I recall reading something about Lucas visiting the large sets that were built and his remark was "this is a waste of money, you could have just done this on computers". HAHAHA, Lucas really gives no fucks about setting environments for actors to play in.

His sequel trilogy would've taken place 100% at the "microbiotic" level and featured no humans whatsoever. No more pesky human interaction required for him!
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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Lucas's sequel trilogy would've been ridiculous and bizarre and everyone would've hated it. But at least it wouldn't have been some half-assed mess of a project thrown together in a boardroom by a bunch of suits who couldn't even bother to figure out what the fuck the story they were trying to tell even was beforehand.
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