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2016: God is Dead
Tzu!

WD40!
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(06-02-2020, 12:58 PM)bradito Wrote: Tzu!

WD40!
Also, yes, this.
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(06-02-2020, 12:42 PM)boone daniels Wrote: First of all, a huge portion of the Clinton campaign was dedicated to being abundantly, explicitly clear about what we were in for if we elected this guy. The media, the dirtbag left, and others (including many on these very boards) smugly interpreted that as "shut up and fall in line, peons." What was meant as a warning was seen as a hectoring from a bitch.

Things are different today, because we now have evidence that everything we were warned about is coming true. I don't think it's "shut up and fall in line" so much as it is "do you want to risk four more years of this?"

   
"These guys are pros, Michael. They're gonna push the tension 'till the last possible moment before they strip."

 
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The fuck is going on in here? A man comes on here struck with emotion and admits his own prior mistake, and some of you shun him.

I know Tzu pretty well. He and I have almost daily conversation, and I'm one of the rare few who actually knows his real name. He's a good guy; a great guy even, and while our political views don't always coincide, I know his views are well-founded, and he's intelligently defended them time and again.

The epiphany that the two party system isn't just toxic and damaging unto itself, but that there's actual evil on the part of Trump and the members of the GOP currently in power is a profound one. And it took courage and powerful realization for Tzu to come back here, admit he was incorrect, and express his remorse for believing that Trump was just another run of the mill "politician" and that the last election wasn't anything to get worked up about.

Tzu's made progress, and he wanted to share that progress. The type of real progress and growth that takes pain and self-reflection to achieve, and you guys shun him for it because it doesn't coincide with your own beliefs or because it's not "enough" for you. I'll be honest: I do wish I could convince everyone who hates Trump to vote for Biden and hand Trump a decisive defeat that he can't possibly contest and tie up in courts. But telling a man that his new, improved perspective isn't enough for you and he should further bend his own political beliefs to match yours is the kind of myopic, two-dimensional shit you'd expect from the far Right.

Don't ever discredit honest progress and growth because you don't think it's enough.
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D.T.!!!
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Now if we can just keep you guys on the boards that'd be awesome.
If I could change to liquid, I'd fill the cracks and bend the rocks.
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(06-02-2020, 01:21 PM)commodorejohn Wrote: D.T.!!!

It truly is 2016!  Nice to see you back, guys (hopefully, you'll stick around).
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Forget about it, D.T. It's Poop City.
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I'll be blunt. If this isn't the week that makes one think their party needs serious reform, I don't know what will. And current leadership isn't interested. The only viable way to reform the GOP is to electorally kick their teeth in. To make them realize they can never be elected again without change.
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Not voting for Trump ISN'T enough. Not to avoid being called wrong. Not to avoid being on the wrong side of history.

Politics isn't about beliefs. It's about reality.

The reality is that only two people have a chance to win the Presidential election, and one of them may be the stupidest, most evil man alive. Voting is not and has never been about finding your most perfect philosophical match. Voting is about exerting a tiny bit of control over who wins. Giving that control up to retain ideological purity is just masturbation.

Biden wasn't my first choice. But as an adult, I recognize that throwing up my hands, muttering, "Both sides", and sitting the choice between him and Trump out would be a completely wrongheaded exertion of privilege.

This November is probably the most important election any of us have ever or will ever take part in. It's not about political beliefs or ideological purity; it's about people dying.
Gamertag: Tweakee
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One can be sympathetic to Tzu's post and still notice the illogic of it ... "Trump has devastated my family and community, left me shaken and disturbed and he has to go... so do that for me, wouldja?"

Oh, and hi guys!
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(06-02-2020, 01:20 PM)Ud.t. Wrote: The fuck is going on in here? A man comes on here struck with emotion and admits his own prior mistake, and some of you shun him.

I know Tzu pretty well. He and I have almost daily conversation, and I'm one of the rare few who actually knows his real name. He's a good guy; a great guy even, and while our political views don't always coincide, I know his views are well-founded, and he's intelligently defended them time and again.

The epiphany that the two party system isn't just toxic and damaging unto itself, but that there's actual evil on the part of Trump and the members of the GOP currently in power is a profound one. And it took courage and powerful realization for Tzu to come back here, admit he was incorrect, and express his remorse for believing that Trump was just another run of the mill "politician" and that the last election wasn't anything to get worked up about.

Tzu's made progress, and he wanted to share that progress. The type of real progress and growth that takes pain and self-reflection to achieve, and you guys shun him for it because it doesn't coincide with your own beliefs or because it's not "enough" for you. I'll be honest: I do wish I could convince everyone who hates Trump to vote for Biden and hand Trump a decisive defeat that he can't possibly contest and tie up in courts. But telling a man that his new, improved perspective isn't enough for you and he should further bend his own political beliefs to match yours is the kind of myopic, two-dimensional shit you'd expect from the far Right.

Don't ever discredit honest progress and growth because you don't think it's enough.
But he’s still not going to vote for Biden so what does it matter.  I’m sure Tzu is a good dude, and I haven’t really had an issue with him on the forums, but it doesn’t change that I believe that libertarians and conservatives are essentially selfish cowards who don’t mind screwing over others to get theirs.  I don’t know how you look at what’s going on, the ramifications of the riots and how we got here, and the possibility of another 4 years of this.

So you’re right: it isn’t enough.  And I think it’s absolutely fair for us to say to “do fucking better.” If your newly found empathy isn’t going to help people—then what the fuck is the point?
"God moves in mysterious ways," they said. Maybe he is on your side, the way it all worked out. Remembering other Christmases, wishing for something, something important, something special. And this is it, baby boy Frankie Bono. You're alone now. All alone. The scream is dead. There's no pain. You're home again, back in the cold, black silence
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Mangy gets it. I love that the suburbs of discord are invading this place to give us shit tho
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I would hope to think if there was a Democratic President this openly hateful and corrupt, that I would actively oppose them in every way possible, including switching sides, even if only temporarily.
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First of all, you would - don't doubt it for a second - and two, if the Democratic party were capable of nominating someone like Trump, you'd have long gone looking elsewhere. The Democrats have a lot of problems, but from the outside looking in there doesn't seem to be much of a political divide so much as a moral one - in 2020, if you're looking for office and you've a shred of decency in your soul, you run as a Democrat; if you're an indifferent person interested in accruing wealth, or a cruel person looking to spread misery, you run as a Republican.
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(06-02-2020, 09:27 AM)TzuDohNihm Wrote:
Quote:...vicious dogs...

I was eating lunch with my wife Saturday and saw this phrase on the news. I researched the tweet and verified that it was actually said. Several days before I saw a man murdered on video crying for his mama when his body knew his last was near.

No President of the United States, knowing the history of this country should have uttered that phrase. None. Not accidentally and not willfully. Not after what happened in Minneapolis.

It's time.

Some of you may say "Good", some may say "What took you so long?". One in particular may not give me quarter after the past year or so. I still love him even if he doesn't believe me or want whatever help I can be.

For three days now I have cried on my morning walks with my dog. My country hasn't existed for a long time (in my mind, much longer than many of you feel it hasn't existed). This morning I cried walking my dog because I was afraid black folks in my neighborhood would see a white man with a dog on a leash and be afraid of me. He's a tiny Jack Russell, no German Shepard or the like. He's small but the President of the United states invoked a phrase that should have never been invoked regardless but especially after the specific event that brought us to today.

My wife has insomnia brought on by working from home and dealing with four kids finishing school from home. This isn't making it any better. A woman who recoiled at me having guns in the house asked me to take her to the shooting range so she could learn how to protect her children. A woman torn between her own privilege and wanting the world to be safe for her sons who will be judged as soon as someone looks at them.

I wont vote for Joe Biden. I was never going to vote for Trump. The Libertarian party has nominated a woman from my state, a psychology professor from Clemson university. I will probably vote for her for the same reasons I have voted Libertarian since I was 18 years old. Because I live in a red state that will not change with a Dem vote from me. Because I have wanted the two party system to end for 24 years because it leads to nothing but the current polarization we face. I have wanted the system torn down and rebuilt for so long that I gave up knowing it would never happen. Its one of the reasons I don't wade into politics with the passion of my younger self.
I don't know what I can do since my vote, in my eyes always a protest about the state of the two-party system, a waste in others eyes, wont make a difference but to allow my voice to be heard that I still think we need more diverse representation. But I do know that I will no longer "defend" Trump. I will no longer just nod my head when folks talk about him so I don't have to engage. I will absolutely let folks know that for the good of the tatters of this country this man needs to go.

The circuses are all shut down and $1200 didn't buy enough bread.

Quote:...vicious dogs...

When a war breaks out I don't know where to stand anymore. I will be reviled by both extremes because I only agree with 50% of what each side believes. There is no common ground anymore. I will not be neutral though. I will take care of me and mine. But I don't know where to stand. Except where I said I would. Between you and what you fear. I will perish defending who and what I love I am sure. It will be in vain I am sure.

What I am not sure of is what to do besides shield those I love from the onslaught for as long as I can. I am not a man that is often unsure of where to stand.

I'll do what little I can but I'm not really sure what that is beyond telling people who think the current President is right still that he isn't. He needs to go.

Can you please consider voting Democrat down ticket for the Senate and House? It's not just the man at the top that has to go but all his enablers too. 

Such things as judges at all levels these people have been putting in place will plague the US for decades to come and the last thing anyone wants is more of these people in place.
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Does it help that Biden totally caved during the Clarence Thomas hearings and basically acted like a Republican?
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If nothing else, the fact that police aren't employed only at the federal level should be reason enough to vote down ballot. There's a whole lot of state, city, and county level authority that needs to be feeling the heat for reform right now.
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I always struggle with voting for judges and cops because the candidates are all judges and cops.
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A lot of the reaction here to Tzu's post is why he, and several other folks that have popped in, have decamped to Discord.
If you're happy, you're not paying attention.

Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny: 
Glad that you guys worked that out amongst yourselves.

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They forgot their passwords?
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(06-02-2020, 12:42 PM)boone daniels Wrote: First of all, a huge portion of the Clinton campaign was dedicated to being abundantly, explicitly clear about what we were in for if we elected this guy. The media, the dirtbag left, and others (including many on these very boards) smugly interpreted that as "shut up and fall in line, peons." What was meant as a warning was seen as a hectoring from a bitch.

Things are different today, because we now have evidence that everything we were warned about is coming true. I don't think it's "shut up and fall in line" so much as it is "do you want to risk four more years of this?"
Boone, I love you buddy, but this shit in infuriating. I voted for Clinton, pretty much every left leaning person I know did. Please don't smugly uphold yourself above others who very rightfully criticize the Clinton campaign and how it was run. She had one of the easier elections ever to win. She could have offered actual meaningful policies, but instead, as they are doing now, they ran on "I'm not the other guy". That's not enough, it's never been enough.

I'm voting for Biden. After this week I don't see how you cannot. But I think people need to realistic about the power electoral politics has and the reason behind criticizing the so called "correct party". The majority of the states with the worst police violence have Democrats in power. The democratic nominee is the father of mass incarceration and literally started his career as a segregationist. Instead of doing anything after a stunning display of corruption by Trump, instead Pelosi and Schummer released a meaningless statement about "healing" and tried to beat Trump at his own game by reading from the bible. There's really no use in criticizing the Republican party at this point, they're just flat out evil. Anyone who votes in Republican interests is evil. But we can hope to change the direction of the Democratic party. Democratic leaders should be out there with protesters, calling in legislature to curb Trump's power, calling for meaningful change. It's very apparent that the current Democratic leadership is woefully ill-equipped to deal with the current situation. Pointing out these problems is not a vote for Trump or his policies.
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I submit that Clinton had the policies in place, but the orange goon on the other side kept sucking out all the air in the room. I'm not going to excuse her campaign though. Four years later I'm convinced my donations went to daily coffee runs and no meaningful advertising or strategy.

ETA: I think about my company's Pride flag raising two years ago, and how one known Trump voter came out for the event, wearing their 'Ally' pin. It took everything I had to not go over to them and tell "NO! YOU FUCKING VOTED FOR THE ASSHOLE WHO ADVOCATED FOR ELECTRO SHOCK CONVERSION THERAPY. YOU MARCH YOUR ASS BACK INSIDE!"

I didn't bother going to last year's event.
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(06-02-2020, 02:55 PM)atomtastic Wrote:
(06-02-2020, 12:42 PM)boone daniels Wrote: First of all, a huge portion of the Clinton campaign was dedicated to being abundantly, explicitly clear about what we were in for if we elected this guy. The media, the dirtbag left, and others (including many on these very boards) smugly interpreted that as "shut up and fall in line, peons." What was meant as a warning was seen as a hectoring from a bitch.

Things are different today, because we now have evidence that everything we were warned about is coming true. I don't think it's "shut up and fall in line" so much as it is "do you want to risk four more years of this?"
Pointing out these problems is not a vote for Trump or his policies.

But that's not what's happening here.  Unless I misread Tzu's original post, he sympathizes with what's going on, but not enough to actually vote for Biden.  Opting for neither--voting third party--which does absolutely nothing who are suffering.

Here's the thing: I am well aware that Trump is not the sole issue here.  That Trump is merely a symptom of a problem that has been perpetuated by both democrat and republican leadership.  HOWEVER, there is only one side willing to bring up issues and topics, and one side that gives space to a wide variety of different ideas--and that is the left.  We are facing utter destruction and at this point this is not some exaggeration. 

It's either you're with us or you're not.  No ifs, no buts. no "well I had to vote with my conscious."  You don't vote blue--you have blood on your hands.  

This is what accountability is.
"God moves in mysterious ways," they said. Maybe he is on your side, the way it all worked out. Remembering other Christmases, wishing for something, something important, something special. And this is it, baby boy Frankie Bono. You're alone now. All alone. The scream is dead. There's no pain. You're home again, back in the cold, black silence
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Not one of you will vote for a reform candidate in the primaries. This circle jerk thread is cursed.
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(06-02-2020, 04:11 PM)ska oreo Wrote: It's either you're with us or you're not.
Oh hai, Dubya!
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Vote. Sure, voting Democrat is easy and the right thing to due in the current situation.

What are you going to do after you vote?
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Wait, did any of us actually vote for Biden in the primary?
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Hell, the decision was already out of my hands thanks to Pennsylvania's delayed primary.
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Yeah, it doesn't really matter when everyone but two candidates drop out with a good portion of voting still open.
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Sir this is a movie website
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I remember liking movies.
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Remember when we could go to the movies?
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I remember not watching movies.
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(06-02-2020, 04:56 PM)commodorejohn Wrote: I remember not watching movies.

and commenting on them anyways.
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