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I still DO like Star Wars
Oh, I was never going to defend the Vader fan film on its own merits.  The algorithm (blessed be the algorithm) tossed it my way once and...yikes...
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you love him so much!!
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So love has blinded you?
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(01-01-2021, 04:00 PM)Bucho Wrote: But, even as fun as it is to be contrarian, I'm not about to defend the quality of his analysis. (Or his creative writing.) I can't pretend I'm on his wavelength with most of that stuff. Mostly I was responding to the bitterness and anger and disdain toward him in some of the posts in this thread, and trying to figure out where that comes from.

For me it's his disingenuousness and self-seriousness, qualities that bug the hell out of me - especially when it's in the context of something as low stakes and fun as films. I remember that thing about the soundtrack for his film, and him presenting it as a little guy fighting Disney thing, when that wasn't the case; all reaction videos in which a person is filming themselves are performative - it's impossible to avoid it, which rubs me the wrong way - so the Mandalorian reaction video, while harmless, is still a bit of eye-rolling cringe (I am not judging the quality of his character on it, but a reaction video is still obviously something not to be too precious about); the phrasing and his wording in his tweets about the Pablo Hidalgo thing read to me as being in bad faith - calling him a bully, saying that 'change is in order' - and are pretty clearly intended to drum the guy out of his job.

In the context of the 'this is for the fans', 'I'm just doing it for the fans', rhetoric, the whole thing is a bit queasy. And all in response to a video about which he, before, was capable of being self-deprecating.
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(01-01-2021, 06:07 PM)mondguy Wrote: So love has blinded you?

just keep brushing your curls!
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I didn't know about any of the other issues with him and I have less than zero desire to watch a Vader fan film but the specific things I thought he was doing was an ENTIRELY other person who seems to be pretty universally hated so....maybe there's a little justice. I hope someone has checked out Mike Zeroh so you can see why one would think it was all one person. I don't know if YouTube channels have "fonts" but, if they do, then those guys used the same one.

The whole concept of channels like that annoy me but, I said if I was wrong, I'd admit to it. No reason to double down on something untrue just to save face. Facts are facts. SWT was not the hateful one.

Did I delete all I said I would or did I miss a post?

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(01-01-2021, 06:55 PM)rexbanner Wrote:
(01-01-2021, 04:00 PM)Bucho Wrote: But, even as fun as it is to be contrarian, I'm not about to defend the quality of his analysis. (Or his creative writing.) I can't pretend I'm on his wavelength with most of that stuff. Mostly I was responding to the bitterness and anger and disdain toward him in some of the posts in this thread, and trying to figure out where that comes from.

For me it's his disingenuousness and self-seriousness, qualities that bug the hell out of me - especially when it's in the context of something as low stakes and fun as films. I remember that thing about the soundtrack for his film, and him presenting it as a little guy fighting Disney thing, when that wasn't the case; all reaction videos in which a person is filming themselves are performative - it's impossible to avoid it, which rubs me the wrong way - so the Mandalorian reaction video, while harmless, is still a bit of eye-rolling cringe (that is, something not to be too precious about); the phrasing and his wording in his tweets about the Pablo Hidalgo thing are in total bad faith - calling him a bully, saying that 'change is in order' - and are pretty clearly intended to drum the guy out of his job.

In the context of the 'this is for the fans', 'I'm just doing it for the fans', rhetoric, the whole thing is a bit stomach churning. And all in response to a video about which he, before, was capable of being self-deprecating.

I appreciate the response Rex. I don't get all of it (I don't see how a fan isn't the "little guy" when up against a megacorporation and I also think his confusion about the genuinely confusing behaviour of a Lucasfilm exec is more genuine than you do) but I think I do see where you're coming from for the most part.

And on the plus side Pablo Hidalgo in his apology tweet basically said he's pro-reaction videos, which suggests he really is one of the good guys!
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(01-01-2021, 07:06 PM)Nooj Wrote:
(01-01-2021, 06:07 PM)mondguy Wrote: So love has blinded you?

just keep brushing your curls!

(blushes)

It's probably true.
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(Cracks knuckles)

OK enough of this semi cringe crap, lets go pro.








Oh yas.  That's the stuff.




Oh my skin is crawling.  So great.
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Not clicking on that shit.
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But there's so much jar'kai!!!!
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The choreography's pretty decent in that first one!
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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I was going to shit on them relentlessly for 1) Making a lightsaber internet video 2) Framing the dumb video as like a sad letter to a widow with Thin Red Line music over it, but yeah. The Asian inspired choreography works really well for lightsabers.
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(01-02-2021, 02:11 AM)freeman Wrote: I was going to shit on them relentlessly for 1) Making a lightsaber internet video 2) Framing the dumb video as like a sad letter to a widow with Thin Red Line music over it, but yeah.  The Asian inspired choreography works really well for lightsabers.

"Asian inspired"?

As if Asia is a monolithic culture?

(Hand hovers over the cancel button ...)
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Am I supposed to say Wushu inspired?

...  Nooj inspired...?

[Image: tumblr_om6gubpPlx1u501aoo1_400.gif]
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Revisited this video. Got a laugh out of the bit on 7:45, but it's also so goddamn true given the reaction to a certain season finale.




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That video rules.
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I've never seen that video - it's really good.

Early on the guy makes a point about SW being 'so unoriginal it doubled back on itself and became original'. I've pretty long maintained that Star Wars (the Lucas films) isn't any more or less original than the majority of films, novels, art - it's just that so much detail and documentation is known about Star Wars that everyone can say 'Oh that's Hidden Fortress/Lord of the Rings/Flash Gordon/Star Trek/The Searchers/Buck Rodgers/The Dambusters/Lawrence of Arabia/Macbeth'.

Like, I'm sure if you grabbed David Lynch or Martin Scorsese and shook them until 40 years' worth of DVD documentaries, making of books, art books, and podcasts interviewing their production stuff and extras, you'd be able to identify the books and films they'd read and were consciously or unconsciously riffing on.
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It's arguably the best TLJ video there is. I'm going to repost it in the Discord if you don't mind Stocks.
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Go ahead. It's actually kind of criminal that the video doesn't have a higher view count.
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Star Wars didn't invent any ingredients, it just found a new recipe for them. But now it's all people ever want to eat.

And yeah, that video is the goods.
Just this guy, you know?
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I'd be curious to know which videos criticizing THE LAST JEDI you guys think are any good.

I won't hold my breath while I wait.
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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We'll, there's this.  (take my admitted neutrality on the movie into account)



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yeah that channel is good! and clickbaity title/thumbnail aside (which is actually just the name of a specific series of videos on that channel), it's pretty reasonable about its take

I listen to their videos a lot in general

They also have a movie podcast from which they are partly in dialogue with the more polished video on last jedi



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I don't agree with everything he says but I unashamedly enjoy Robot Head's TLJ critiques. Even if he is Australian.
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(01-02-2021, 11:59 AM)mondguy Wrote: We'll, there's this.  (take my admitted neutrality on the movie into account)




That’s an extremely interesting video that underlines the kind of half-assed (my characterization, not the video’s) way Rian Johnson wants to flirt with some new ideas... before totally regressing everything back to the expected paradigm.

Kylo Ren seems to be heading towards something new that we’ve never seen before in STAR WARS, somebody who rejects the dogma of the Jedi and the Sith, and who is seemingly becoming increasingly ambivalent about Snoke and the First Order... and then he just transforms into Villain Man so that Rey (and the viewer) is not forced to deal with any moral complexity.

(01-02-2021, 04:08 PM)Bucho Wrote: I don't agree with everything he says but I unashamedly enjoy Robot Head's TLJ critiques. Even if he is Australian.

I seem to recall his RISE OF SKYWALKER review being pretty entertaining. Will go check out his TLJ back catalogue.
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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Well something I was gonna say was that while I can't point to any videos/reviews that I like which disliked the film, a recurring thing that bugged me was the number of TLJ advocates who missed the point of the film.

I don't think it's a particularly bold or subversive - the film's end note is that: a) the Jedi are good and worthwhile, b) the Resistance/Rebellion are right to fight, even against all odds, c) it's better, in terms of your principles, to fight to save something rather than to destroy something and d) accruing power and trying to destroy everything won't make you happy.

Whereas a lot of people seemed to come out of TROS saying they were disappointed that it didn't further explore the failure of the Jedi (when Luke becomes a Jedi again at the end) and that it didn't examine the grey area TLJ suggests exists in the conflict (it doesn't - DJ's 'both sides' stuff is not the film's point of view). I would've loathed a VIII that ended saying 'Actually the best way is the grey path between the light and the dark, and don't you know that actually both sides are as bad as the other?'

I like and agree with the 'message' that the Jedi are fundamentally a good idea - even if they had their problems, which can be worked on; I like the film's observation that yeah, bad people stir up conflict and profit from it - that doesn't change the fact that one side in a conflict can still be the right one.

All TLJ does is reaffirm the core values of the series, albeit with an extra emphasis on the idea that the Force is with everyone (which had been part of the universe from day 1, just not something that had been thematically highlighted). The subverted expectations stuff is heavily hyped up by elements on both sides of the divide - champions because they think it's extremely daring and clever, detractors because they think it's lazy and destructive.
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(01-02-2021, 04:24 PM)Belloq87 Wrote: That’s an extremely interesting video that underlines the kind of half-assed (my characterization, not the video’s) way Rian Johnson wants to flirt with some new ideas... before totally regressing everything back to the expected paradigm.

Kylo Ren seems to be heading towards something new that we’ve never seen before in STAR WARS, somebody who rejects the dogma of the Jedi and the Sith, and who is seemingly becoming increasingly ambivalent about Snoke and the First Order... and then he just transforms into Villain Man so that Rey (and the viewer) is not forced to deal with any moral complexity.

Is it half-assed when deconstructing-to-reconstruct seems to be the point of what Johnson was going for?

Ren doesn't reject the dogma of the Jedi or Sith because of any specific tenet/worldview he's ambivalent about.  It's completely emotion-based.  He only questions his loyalty to Snoke emasculated him while also becoming more drawn to Rey as a consolation prize.  My take on Kylo/Ben is that his decisions are completely dependent upon how he feels at that particular moment as opposed to a specific code.

I also don't think moral complexity is ever the endgame on these kinds of movies.  It can certainly touch upon some of them as ideas as the characters struggle with them in moments of conflict, but the end point is going to be GOOD vs EVIL.

If you want moral complexity about the 'grey' in this kind of fantasy universe, you gotta go to serialized TV.  And even then, these things become more binary by the time they need to conclude.

Rey and the audience WAS forced to deal with moral complexity.  That was the build-up to Kylo killing Snoke via the story with Luke.  After that, the characters and the movie have to make a specific decision on the direction to go in these broad strokes fantasy action/adventure movies that are obligated to end with a big action climax.  It's why phony-moral-grey Thanos was killed off and replaced with BRUTAL WARMONGER THANOS for the finale of ENDGAME for all the pomp about the former. It's why CIVIL WAR didn't end with Cap and Tony coming to fisticuffs over their differences of political opinion ("I don't care. He killed MY MOMMMMM!".

I actually do think Johnson's choices and approach were bold/subversive in the context of star war... and the crazy reaction we saw within its fandom. But at the same time, it was also a traditional star war
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I just wanted to see something thematically new that I found interesting.

I did not see something thematically new that I found interesting.

It was a mistake to ultimately repeat the simple morality of the OT, precisely because the OT did that story to perfection. Anything to follow along that line would end up being pale imitation.
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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(01-02-2021, 11:37 AM)Belloq87 Wrote: I'd be curious to know which videos criticizing THE LAST JEDI you guys think are any good.

I won't hold my breath while I wait.

I take it the video I posted making a case for TLJ is one you think is any good, or not?
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(01-02-2021, 05:13 PM)mr. stockslivevan Wrote: I take it the video I posted making a case for TLJ is one you think is any good, or not?

I only made it about 10 minutes in, to be honest. The tone was growing a bit too dismissive for me.

But there are pro TLJ videos out there that I think are solid and fair. HelloGreedo's already been mentioned in here, and I like the stuff I've seen from him, for example.
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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(01-02-2021, 05:13 PM)Belloq87 Wrote: I just wanted to see something thematically new that I found interesting.

I did not see something thematically new that I found interesting.

It was a mistake to ultimately repeat the simple morality of the OT, precisely because the OT did that story to perfection.  Anything to follow along that line would end up being pale imitation.

that's what happens when you start out with forwakens to please a generation that felt burnt on the prequels

you not finding last jedi thematically interesting?  that's fair

too bad for youuuuuu

it reminds me of me not finding forwakens thematically interesting and then hearing "this is what the franchise needed to bring fans back into the fold"

so I know how it feels hahahah
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Interestingly, the person on the video was also pretty underwhelmed by the film after seeing it in theaters, it just took awhile later for him to see the beauty in it.
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(01-02-2021, 05:19 PM)Belloq87 Wrote: I only made it about 10 minutes in, to be honest.  The tone was growing a bit too dismissive for me.

hahaha, given what I know of your standards of discourse, it's not surprising at all that the video was definitely NOT for you
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(01-02-2021, 05:21 PM)Nooj Wrote: that's what happens when you start out with forwakens to please a generation that felt burnt on the prequels

you not finding last jedi thematically interesting? that's fair

too bad for youuuuuu

it reminds me of me not finding forwakens thematically interesting and then hearing "this is what the franchise needed to bring fans back into the fold"

so I know how it feels hahahah


I'm talking about the Sequels, as a whole, ultimately being extremely thematically uninteresting to me, and I direct blame at both Abrams and Johnson.

Even after TFA, both had their chances.
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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